AMR/APA might be nearing a deal!

[WorldTraveler]

Whether there are more details on the internal site (the union does have a responsibility to protect information the company shares with it including proposals), the most interesting part of the update is the note that AA continues to seek increased domestic codesharing with no increase in the regional fleet.
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It shows that regional jets are not cost competitive w/ other carriers' mainline operations and the only way for AA to effective compete is by either bringing its own costs down or codesharing on someone else - although they CANNOT obtain antitrust immunity with another domestic carrier nor can they share revenues on domestic routes.
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If the APA agrees to even further expansion of the mainline codeshare provisions, they need to ensure there is language to protect existing jobs and salaries... the AA-B6 relationship is exactly what happens when you can't compete with low fare markets and you have no scope provisions. AA has been systematically pulling out of markets and then codesharing on the flights that B6 used to push AA out of the market. It may well be that AA can't effectively compete in all of the markets they need to and domestic codesharing is required but labor needs to ensure those jobs remain at AA in some form or another.
.
And not that while the APA may seek some sort of scope protection for domestic codesharing, there is no assurance such provisions will be added for other labor groups.
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If AA metal can't fly the flight, then AA employee jobs are at risk.
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As some have said, scope is the only thing that really matters.

 

[damajagua]

If it is supposed to be for APA members only, why would a member post it here? Having been in the business, I would bet that when you access the link, it requires that you log in with an APA id and password before you can get to the things you want to hear/read. Just like the APFA website.

There is a regular poster here; that goes by the name SuperBuff
He/she have posted the negotiations hotline before.

 

[787nightmare]

"Superfluff"??

 

[737823]

Whether there are more details on the internal site (the union does have a responsibility to protect information the company shares with it including proposals), the most interesting part of the update is the note that AA continues to seek increased domestic codesharing with no increase in the regional fleet.
.
It shows that regional jets are not cost competitive w/ other carriers' mainline operations and the only way for AA to effective compete is by either bringing its own costs down or codesharing on someone else - although they CANNOT obtain antitrust immunity with another domestic carrier nor can they share revenues on domestic routes.
.
If the APA agrees to even further expansion of the mainline codeshare provisions, they need to ensure there is language to protect existing jobs and salaries... the AA-B6 relationship is exactly what happens when you can't compete with low fare markets and you have no scope provisions. AA has been systematically pulling out of markets and then codesharing on the flights that B6 used to push AA out of the market. It may well be that AA can't effectively compete in all of the markets they need to and domestic codesharing is required but labor needs to ensure those jobs remain at AA in some form or another.
.
And not that while the APA may seek some sort of scope protection for domestic codesharing, there is no assurance such provisions will be added for other labor groups.
.
If AA metal can't fly the flight, then AA employee jobs are at risk.
.
As some have said, scope is the only thing that really matters.

Just look at what has happened at BOS. Not sure about the numbers but I'd be curious to know how AA's operations stack up today vs 2006 and their number of local employees. Three years ago 2x 777 to LHR, then 763s, now 757s. All the vacation destinations (AUA, FLL, MCO, PLS SDQ, and SJU) have been slashed, no more AUS, MSY, SEA, SFO, SJC, and STL. JetBlue just keeps growing and adding destinations the only holes I see they could fill would be PHL (challenge US) and SLC (challenge DL).

Josh

 

[damajagua]

"Superfluff"??

Yea nightmare

 

[Super FLUF]

"Superfluff"??

Oh good grief. None of you have ever heard of the 737's nickname?

FLUF = Fat Little Ugly F-----

Of course, since it is an 800, it is "super", just like the 80.

Regarding negotiations, nothing significant. I don't want to re-post the hotline, because it is misleading. Management seems to want to do a deal real bad, yet they continue to cling with a death grip to the idea that we are going to sign away our jobs to unlimited domestic code share and accept a 1% raise.

NOT GONNA HAPPEN.

So there we sit. As soon as management understands that isn't going to happen, not only will they have a major contract settled, but also the staffing relief they are desperately seeking to get them through this staffing shortage. They have the power to make this happen. I guess they think that if they just keep asking over and over, maybe we will change our minds. Maybe this is what they teach in those hoity-toity business schools like Wharton.

Before any of you bean-counter types start popping off about how the company "can't afford to pay higher wages", there are many things that have already been agreed to that will save the company a lot of money and increase efficiency/productivity.

 

[787nightmare]

"Oh good grief. None of you have ever heard of the 737's nickname?".
). Aw yeah, heard that back in 88/89 era...
I was just guessing you were who damajauga(?)was referring to.

 

[737823]

Deleted

 

[damajagua]

Oh good grief. None of you have ever heard of the 737's nickname?

FLUF = Fat Little Ugly F-----

Of course, since it is an 800, it is "super", just like the 80.

Regarding negotiations, nothing significant. I don't want to re-post the hotline, because it is misleading. Management seems to want to do a deal real bad, yet they continue to cling with a death grip to the idea that we are going to sign away our jobs to unlimited domestic code share and accept a 1% raise.

NOT GONNA HAPPEN.

So there we sit. As soon as management understands that isn't going to happen, not only will they have a major contract settled, but also the staffing relief they are desperately seeking to get them through this staffing shortage. They have the power to make this happen. I guess they think that if they just keep asking over and over, maybe we will change our minds. Maybe this is what they teach in those hoity-toity business schools like Wharton.

Before any of you bean-counter types start popping off about how the company "can't afford to pay higher wages", there are many things that have already been agreed to that will save the company a lot of money and increase efficiency/productivity.

Thank you for the update.
Just like I thought AA is really not interested in getting any of it's contract
to an agreeable deal. They know as well as the unions that no employees
will willingly give them the concessions that they are claiming to need.
If AA can not afford to give everyone a substantial raise
We should hold on to what we have until they decide to file for
bankruptcy. I rather have a judge settle it than willingly give it
to the company.

 

[eolesen]

Just look at what has happened at BOS. Not sure about the numbers but I'd be curious to know how AA's operations stack up today vs 2006 and their number of local employees. Three years ago 2x 777 to LHR, then 763s, now 757s. All the vacation destinations (AUA, FLL, MCO, PLS SDQ, and SJU) have been slashed, no more AUS, MSY, SEA, SFO, SJC, and STL. JetBlue just keeps growing and adding destinations the only holes I see they could fill would be PHL (challenge US) and SLC (challenge DL).

Sure, BOS is gutted compared to 2006. Compared to 2001, I'd guess probably closer to flat, give or take a few destinations.

The cold hard fact is that AA couldn't compete against Jetblue's costs. They made money by slightly undercutting AA's higher fares, and grew explosively as a result. At BOS, thanks to DL vacating an entire terminal, there was nothing AA could do to stop them.

As the saying goes, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em...

 

[WorldTraveler]

Sure, BOS is gutted compared to 2006. Compared to 2001, I'd guess probably closer to flat, give or take a few destinations.

The cold hard fact is that AA couldn't compete against Jetblue's costs. They made money by slightly undercutting AA's higher fares, and grew explosively as a result. At BOS, thanks to DL vacating an entire terminal, there was nothing AA could do to stop them.

As the saying goes, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em...

since DL is now a larger player in BOS now than it was in 2006, do you suppose that DL did what it did based on its own best interests?
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In both NYC and BOS, DL didn't really makes it strategic decisions based on who was going to be unable to adapt to the new competitive marketplace.
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What other cities will we hear the same excuse about in the next few years?

 

[damajagua]

No deal in the foreseeable future!!!!

 

[737823]

No deal in the foreseeable future!!!!

Not without further concessions!

Josh

 

[IORFA]

Then let's keep what we got and now the unions can follow AA and stall in negotiations.

 

[Jacobin777]

since DL is now a larger player in BOS now than it was in 2006, do you suppose that DL did what it did based on its own best interests?
.
In both NYC and BOS, DL didn't really makes it strategic decisions based on who was going to be unable to adapt to the new competitive marketplace.
.
What other cities will we hear the same excuse about in the next few years?

Using D.O.T. data, at least domestically for BOS, while DL is larger now than it was in 2006, I do have a few observations here:

--------

BOS:August 2010 - July 2011*

JetBlue 5,687 23.44%
US Airways 3,220 13.27%
Delta 2,879 11.86%
American 2,783 11.47%
United 2,162 8.91%
-------
BOS: August 2006 - July 2007*

JetBlue 3,457 14.59%
American 3,309 13.97%
Delta 3,291 13.89%
US Airways 3,157 13.33%
United 2,578 10.88%

--------
JFK: August 2010 - July 2011*

JetBlue 9,417 39.61%
Delta 5,017 21.10%
American 3,986 16.76%
United 873 3.67%
American Eagle 658 2.77%

----

JFK: September 2006 - August 2007*


JetBlue 12,379 49.49%
American 3,775 15.09%
Delta 3,640 14.55%
Comair 1,426 5.70%
United 899 3.59%


*-source: BTS Data.

1-DL is at least domestically smaller @ BOS than it was in 2007.
2-B6 is really the "leader" in BOS.
3-Regarding JFK, it isn't that AA has gotten smaller @JFK (at least domestically), its DL has done an excellent job in expanding. Interestingly, B6 has
gotten smaller @ JFK as well over the past few years. Looks like B6 is focusing in on other markets.