strikeforce
Veteran
- Jan 18, 2011
- 1,224
- 253
Have you not done maint. alert Y9001 & Y9002?? Where do you think those originated from??? Take a guess??? LOI's from the feds.......= not doing your job!
AMR/APA might be nearing a deal!
- Thread starter Hopeful
- Start date
eolesen
Veteran
- Jul 23, 2003
- 15,959
- 9,374
The last 10 posts have nothing to do with the pilots.
80% of the threads on this forum already debate the TWU M&R group.
Seriously, since we don't have a moderator shutting down thread drift, please try to be a little more self-policing, eh? Respecting the title and topic of the thread isn't too difficult. Otherwise, we may see the forums go back towards über-moderation.
And kudos to Bob for recognizing that yesterday, and suggesting that the TWU debate go back to the Negotiations novel. Before, of course, being promptly drowned out by others...
80% of the threads on this forum already debate the TWU M&R group.
Seriously, since we don't have a moderator shutting down thread drift, please try to be a little more self-policing, eh? Respecting the title and topic of the thread isn't too difficult. Otherwise, we may see the forums go back towards über-moderation.
And kudos to Bob for recognizing that yesterday, and suggesting that the TWU debate go back to the Negotiations novel. Before, of course, being promptly drowned out by others...
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,662
- Banned
- #168
maybe the rest of the people here don't mind it.
If the mods think it is important to stay on topic, they'll enforce it. Apparently they don't see it as a priority and neither do the majority of people who participate in the forum.
The mods are alot more aware of what goes on in these discussions than you might think. <_<
Super FLUF
Senior
- Jun 10, 2011
- 313
- 206
Company tabled their pay offer yesterday. 4 year deal consisting of raises of 3%, 1%, 1%, 1%.
I was almost moved to tears by the generosity.
So basically, after factoring in COLA/inflation, it is another pay CUT. Would leave us 30-40% below "low cost" carrier Southwest, and below most of the previously bankrupt carriers like DAL.
Although the company has their talking heads out telling the press we are "really close" to a deal, we are still not even in the same solar system when it comes to the two biggest issues, pay and scope.
I was almost moved to tears by the generosity.
So basically, after factoring in COLA/inflation, it is another pay CUT. Would leave us 30-40% below "low cost" carrier Southwest, and below most of the previously bankrupt carriers like DAL.
Although the company has their talking heads out telling the press we are "really close" to a deal, we are still not even in the same solar system when it comes to the two biggest issues, pay and scope.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,662
- Banned
- #170
I presume they did not pull their request for unlimited domestic codesharing?
Super FLUF
Senior
- Jun 10, 2011
- 313
- 206
Affirmative.
According to them it is "critical" we outsource flying to competitors like JBLU. They built this huge terminal in JFK but only have a couple hundred slots to utilize there. Sheer brilliance. This was obviously the fault of labor, and we should all pitch in with concessions to bail the company out of the predicament "we" created.
When our guys they suggest engineering a merger with JBLU there are ALL SORTS of excuses of why this just can't be done.
Sorry - concession stand closed.
- Aug 20, 2002
- 7,319
- 1,555
I mentioned the pilots in my last rant?
OP
Hopeful
Veteran
- Dec 21, 2002
- 5,998
- 347
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #175
Over the past several days, I have been speaking with pilots and I have to say that overall the ones I have spoken to have changed their staunch, "no frikking way in hell" approach to their negotiations to a more concillatory "not the best but not all too bad" opinion. Like anything else, can't please all the people.
- Aug 20, 2002
- 7,319
- 1,555
Once Mechanic and Related see their new T/A I am sure they will feel the same way. If the negotiators can just figure a way to get a decent Line Premium and GEO pay, without making TUL/AFW/DWH angry.....
Question: DFW, is the hangar work considered Line work?
Super FLUF
Senior
- Jun 10, 2011
- 313
- 206
The ball is in management's court. Here is a recent blast from the DFW reps
Russ and I have been hearing from many of you expressing your dissatisfaction with the proposals that have been posted on the AA negotiating web site. We have heard you loud and clear. We understand you are not interested in a concessionary contract.
AA and APA negotiators have been meeting offsite this week. AA has set another deadline for contract negotiations. This is their deadline not APAs. AA knows what is needed to reach a contract with our pilots. If they are in a rush, it is up to AA management to reach a deal the pilots of APA deserve.
***
I would say the most important sentence in that blast is "AA knows what is needed to reach a contract with our pilots." If AA wants a contract, they could have it yesterday. I know what our guys are asking for, and it isn't the moon. It will leave us lower paid than SWA for the first couple of years, then surpass them the third year. That is, if they don't leapfrog their current pay by then. BTW that pay scale doesn't even come close to the cargo carriers which are even higher. Another item of importance is that our side has already agreed to many, many items that will increase productivity and save the company very large sums of money in other areas. Our side has given a lot and management wants to reward us with 3%.
Thanks for the update. It's the same reason why APFA does not have a TA.
Super FLUF
Senior
- Jun 10, 2011
- 313
- 206
Negotiating Update for Nov. 11, 2011
Negotiations continued this week in the Dallas/Fort Worth area. All outstanding contractual issues are finally on the table. We continue to work hard to move the process forward, but as previously briefed on multiple occasions, large gaps still remain in many areas, including compensation, domestic codesharing, phased-in productivity tied to growth, a new hire pension structure, sick and vacation.
Talks were productive in some respects, as we narrowed the gap on issues that are close to agreement, such as the daily filling of open time and a new premium pay structure. But they have been discouraging in other ways, as senior management is still entrenched in their desire for more domestic codesharing exceptions, sub-standard compensation for the A319, a B-scale new hire pension structure (for the first 12 years of a pilots career) and service level agreements. In return, they are offering minimal increases in compensation and no improvements in vacation or sick.
Regarding compensation, senior management has proposed that each pilot will receive 3.21 percent (either as a lump-sum, structural increase, or a combination) in year one and annual pay increases of 1 percent (based on the May 1, 2008 day rates) in years two, three and four. They also propose to eliminate international override and redeploy night pay to fund an increase in per diem. In the aggregate, the pay proposal results in a total compensation increase of three to four percent (depending on aircraft) after four years, with an A319 pay freeze for the first two years.
We estimate senior managements proposals amount to a concessionary contract valued at approximately $100,000,000 per year in cost savings for the company -- and thats without accounting for the value of any of senior managements scope proposals.
The APA Board of Directors is scheduled to continue its fall meeting next week, beginning on Tuesday. The Negotiating Committee will spend the week reviewing the status of negotiations with the Board, and discussing how to proceed going forward. The committee -- which has negotiated every week without a break since June -- plans to take a much-needed break the week of Thanksgiving. We remain available to meet with senior management in an effort to bring these negotiations to a successful conclusion and will update you as soon as we have further scheduled negotiating sessions.
Negotiations continued this week in the Dallas/Fort Worth area. All outstanding contractual issues are finally on the table. We continue to work hard to move the process forward, but as previously briefed on multiple occasions, large gaps still remain in many areas, including compensation, domestic codesharing, phased-in productivity tied to growth, a new hire pension structure, sick and vacation.
Talks were productive in some respects, as we narrowed the gap on issues that are close to agreement, such as the daily filling of open time and a new premium pay structure. But they have been discouraging in other ways, as senior management is still entrenched in their desire for more domestic codesharing exceptions, sub-standard compensation for the A319, a B-scale new hire pension structure (for the first 12 years of a pilots career) and service level agreements. In return, they are offering minimal increases in compensation and no improvements in vacation or sick.
Regarding compensation, senior management has proposed that each pilot will receive 3.21 percent (either as a lump-sum, structural increase, or a combination) in year one and annual pay increases of 1 percent (based on the May 1, 2008 day rates) in years two, three and four. They also propose to eliminate international override and redeploy night pay to fund an increase in per diem. In the aggregate, the pay proposal results in a total compensation increase of three to four percent (depending on aircraft) after four years, with an A319 pay freeze for the first two years.
We estimate senior managements proposals amount to a concessionary contract valued at approximately $100,000,000 per year in cost savings for the company -- and thats without accounting for the value of any of senior managements scope proposals.
The APA Board of Directors is scheduled to continue its fall meeting next week, beginning on Tuesday. The Negotiating Committee will spend the week reviewing the status of negotiations with the Board, and discussing how to proceed going forward. The committee -- which has negotiated every week without a break since June -- plans to take a much-needed break the week of Thanksgiving. We remain available to meet with senior management in an effort to bring these negotiations to a successful conclusion and will update you as soon as we have further scheduled negotiating sessions.
Wow. That's all I can say. How can AA expect to have a successful conclusion to negotiations
with proposals like this. It's just not going to happened.
I have said it before and will say it again the only way AA employees will accept a concessionary
contract is if it's shoved down our throat by a bankruptcy judge.
In the mean time we need to hold on to what we have.
with proposals like this. It's just not going to happened.
I have said it before and will say it again the only way AA employees will accept a concessionary
contract is if it's shoved down our throat by a bankruptcy judge.
In the mean time we need to hold on to what we have.
