AMR/APA might be nearing a deal!

[strikeforce]

your point is exactly why AA has not been able to turn the ship around... if AA mgmt wanted to force a controntation with labor via the courts, they would stop refinancing their debt as it matures and allow the company to truly have no other choice than bankruptcy.
Given that the proposed new FSC contract came with cutting thousands of jobs as well as cuts in benefits for current workers that will remain, it isn't hard to see why the chances of agreements between labor and mgmt are slim.
The pilots can clearly see the same thing in their discussions which is built on the philosophy that the company will increase pay somewhat for those that remain but at the cost of increased productivity while at the same time the company will be able to reduce the number of pilots who are part of the future of the company by aggressively expanding domestic codesharing.
Given that approach to negotiations - which reflects AA's inability to cost effectively compete in the domestic marketplace and can't without significant cuts in employee costs, it isn't surprising that labor at AA is taking the tack you have expressed... stick on the current ride until it won't go any further... and if the company really becomes bankrupt, we'll deal with that issue when it arrives.
.
Actually filing BK gives the company leverage... threatening cuts and then reversing them, including reversing decisions such as closing crew bases, does nothing to build a cooperative labor-mgmt relationship and just continues the rancor that has existed for years.
.
If it made sense to close SFO 2 months ago, it still does today unless there is a complete agreement on the table that reduces costs to the point that AA can compete effectively.... and if that is the case, then they probably don't need unlimited domestic codesharing.
.
At this point, hold AA mgmt's feet to the fire and force them to either do what they say needs to be done or figure out how to run the company with the resouces it has.
.
You can't argue the company needs to be turned around and then continue to operate it as if the status quo today is acceptable.. if it doesn't work, change it.

AA needs to find a way to run this operation efficiently without looking for pay & benefit cuts from labor at every turn, and if it can't do that...it's needs to bring in management that will. They CANNOT and WILL NOT use labor as their saving grace for their reckless management. I, along with 85,000 employees, are sick and tired of hearing management make excuses about not being able to compete and blaming labor for their screw ups. Arpey and the boys are paid millions to run an efficient and profitable operation, if they don't have the ability to right this ship.....get rid of them!

 

[WorldTraveler]

believe me... I understand your frustration and find it hard to believe that there aren't people EXPECTING AA mtmg to figure out how to efficiently run the business...

They have concluded a series of sale/leaseback transactions (or are in the process) and note that AA mgmt says they are looking at their aircraft as a source of funding.

"We are pleased to establish a strategic relationship with ILFC," said AMR Chief Financial Officer Bella Goren. "This transaction, which will provide financing for 15 of our new 737-800 aircraft, is an effective means for diversifying our funding sources and we look forward to a long-term partnership with ILFC."

 

[strikeforce]

believe me... I understand your frustration and find it hard to believe that there aren't people EXPECTING AA mtmg to figure out how to efficiently run the business...

They have concluded a series of sale/leaseback transactions (or are in the process) and note that AA mgmt says they are looking at their aircraft as a source of funding.

"We are pleased to establish a strategic relationship with ILFC," said AMR Chief Financial Officer Bella Goren. "This transaction, which will provide financing for 15 of our new 737-800 aircraft, is an effective means for diversifying our funding sources and we look forward to a long-term partnership with ILFC."

I don't believe anything management says.....they talk out of both sides of their mouths. To right this ship they need to start by fixing M&E. The company has lost it's direction because marketing runs this business and they forget that the aircraft is their brand, and instead of placing an emphasis on fixing airplanes in order to make them more RELIABLE and DEPENDABLE, they're pouring tons of money into the customer experience, except that the customer is not always willing to pay for the new lighting, comfy seats, and lighted window shades. The condition of our fleets are terrible at best. The airline keeps 20-25 spare aircraft because our dependability is in the toilet. Those additional 20-25 aircraft can be making money for the airline, instead they're on standby mode waiting for an aircraft to crap out. That's not very efficient, and WE have told management numerous times to fix this problem. Management seems to know everything, but they don't know squat. Yesterday, they had a Focus group talk to several people wanting to know why people on the union side don't go into management......almost everyone said the same thing......doesn't pay enough and WE DON'T TRUST MANAGEMENT! what does that tell you???

 

[damajagua]

I don't believe anything management says.....they talk out of both sides of their mouths. To right this ship they need to start by fixing M&E. The company has lost it's direction because marketing runs this business and they forget that the aircraft is their brand, and instead of placing an emphasis on fixing airplanes in order to make them more RELIABLE and DEPENDABLE, they're pouring tons of money into the customer experience, except that the customer is not always willing to pay for the new lighting, comfy seats, and lighted window shades. The condition of our fleets are terrible at best. The airline keeps 20-25 spare aircraft because our dependability is in the toilet. Those additional 20-25 aircraft can be making money for the airline, instead they're on standby mode waiting for an aircraft to crap out. That's not very efficient, and WE have told management numerous times to fix this problem. Management seems to know everything, but they don't know squat. Yesterday, they had a Focus group talk to several people wanting to know why people on the union side don't go into management......almost everyone said the same thing......doesn't pay enough and WE DON'T TRUST MANAGEMENT! what does that tell you???

I will add that management does pay well if you are one of the lucky 800 to 1000 that keep getting rewarded for the last couple of years .

 

[Super FLUF]

If it made sense to close SFO 2 months ago, it still does today unless there is a complete agreement on the table that reduces costs to the point that AA can compete effectively.... and if that is the case, then they probably don't need unlimited domestic codesharing.

As predicted, the SFO crew base closure appears to have been a bluff. The company just magically "delayed" the displacement bid with no explanation given.

Also, yesterday, some of the base chiefs started dropping another fear grenade that "company will have to park 70 jets" if we don't accept their concessionary proposal.

So let's recap...

Multiple bankruptcy threat dates, none of which have come through.
A base closure threat that is being indefinitely delayed.
A threat to park 70 jets if we don't accept the turd TA.

Makes you wonder what's next. The threat of forcing us to watch Nancy Grace re-runs in recurrent groundschool?

These guys are un-frickin' believable.

 

[Bob Owens]

As predicted, the SFO crew base closure appears to have been a bluff. The company just magically "delayed" the displacement bid with no explanation given.

Also, yesterday, some of the base chiefs started dropping another fear grenade that "company will have to park 70 jets" if we don't accept their concessionary proposal.

So let's recap...

Multiple bankruptcy threat dates, none of which have come through.
A base closure threat that is being indefinitely delayed.
A threat to park 70 jets if we don't accept the turd TA.

Makes you wonder what's next. The threat of forcing us to watch Nancy Grace re-runs in recurrent groundschool?

These guys are un-frickin' believable.

How many times over the last four years have we heard the company announce layoffs? Two years ago I asked why the VBR was not available for Line Maintenance, they said "We cant afford to lose mechanics on the line". They later admitted that they lose 400 to 500 a year. The FAA only certifies around 3000 a year for the entire Aviation Industry. Look at the Stats for you guys, waaay down, percentage wise much more than mechanics. You guys have them by the ba11$, why arent you squeezing?

 

[Buck]

Stikeforce:

To right this ship they need to start by fixing M&E.

Why do you always attack TUL? M&E is not the problem, maybe the Line could be the problem?

 

[Bob Owens]

maybe the Line could be the problem?

Maybe that's what he meant.

Carmine Romano had nothing but praise for OH, line maintenance, well he said "we suck". When Jim Ream introduced himself to the Maintenance Presidents he told us that his objective was to make AA number one, I told him that AA would never be number one unless we were. A demoralized distracted exhausted mechanic does not answer gate calls or solve problems as fast as a happy focused well rested mechanic.

The last meeting we had with management they showed us a graph showing delays. Well the graph roughly followed our real pay. As our real pay declined throughout the 90 s delays increased, when we got our raise the rate of delays dropped to nothing, after they cut our pay they started to increase again and are now back to where they were before we got our pay raise.

They just don't get it.

 

[Buck]

Maybe that's what he meant.

Carmine Romano had nothing but praise for OH, line maintenance, well he said "we suck". When Jim Ream introduced himself to the Maintenance Presidents he told us that his objective was to make AA number one, I told him that AA would never be number one unless we were. A demoralized distracted exhausted mechanic does not answer gate calls or solve problems as fast as a happy focused well rested mechanic.

The last meeting we had with management they showed us a graph showing delays. Well the graph roughly followed our real pay. As our real pay declined throughout the 90 s delays increased, when we got our raise the rate of delays dropped to nothing, after they cut our pay they started to increase again and are now back to where they were before we got our pay raise.

They just don't get it.

Thanks for taking the time to write a clarification. These are the items that the mebership does not see or here about. It is way past time for the mechanics to be arguing amongst themselves. At times it is evident that we cannot even agree on things between shifts, let alone as a union. Heres hoping that the company is getting the message, but I do not believe so.

 

[strikeforce]

Stikeforce:



Why do you always attack TUL? M&E is not the problem, maybe the Line could be the problem?

Buck, why does it always appear to you that my comments are always geared towards TUL? If my comments threaten TUL in any way....maybe you should get on board the decertification train and WE might all be happy once the TWU fades into the distance. My comments were in reference to management and in particular M&E heads of state. The company focuses too much on customer experience, but fails to realize that without dependable or reliable aircraft AA doesn't have a product to offer it's customers. The nice shiny metal with all the bells and whistles in the interior doesn't mean squat when it sits idle because of a hydraulic leak or engine change. That's what I was trying to convey to WT.

 

[TWU informer]

Because everything wrong with this profession is Tulsa's fault!

 

[Buck]

Buck, why does it always appear to you that my comments are always geared towards TUL? If my comments threaten TUL in any way....maybe you should get on board the decertification train and WE might all be happy once the TWU fades into the distance. My comments were in reference to management and in particular M&E heads of state. The company focuses too much on customer experience, but fails to realize that without dependable or reliable aircraft AA doesn't have a product to offer it's customers. The nice shiny metal with all the bells and whistles in the interior doesn't mean squat when it sits idle because of a hydraulic leak or engine change. That's what I was trying to convey to WT.

You are the one who mentioned M&E. It does not matter that you refer to the Heads of State, your reference to M&E we have to work with these employees. If you do not mean the mechanic and related etc.. then say so. M&E around here are the Mechanics and Related. Without M&E you would not have airplanes to keep in a dependable or reliable condition. As for the interiors, there are some First Class customers that would have something else to say. They expect the aircaft to be in good working order, but the also expect their perks. The real fault in my opinion is the Degulation Act of 1978 (?). Customers now believe that the pampered service and a working airplane are the norm and they still attemp to pay the least they can.

 

[strikeforce]

You are the one who mentioned M&E. It does not matter that you refer to the Heads of State, your reference to M&E we have to work with these employees. If you do not mean the mechanic and related etc.. then say so. M&E around here are the Mechanics and Related. Without M&E you would not have airplanes to keep in a dependable or reliable condition. As for the interiors, there are some First Class customers that would have something else to say. They expect the aircaft to be in good working order, but the also expect their perks. The real fault in my opinion is the Degulation Act of 1978 (?). Customers now believe that the pampered service and a working airplane are the norm and they still attemp to pay the least they can.

Are you sure you're on labor's side???? Deregulation has nothing to do with maintaining airplanes. How about reducing the interval times for certain maint. tasks, or how about keeping maint. & related accountable for their work. AA is expanding the times for maint. tasks and they don't keep amt's accountable. So, do you blame M&R or management????

Passengers do expect dependable aircraft because that's the deal they make with AA when they book their flight. They're paying for air travel between two or three points.....not to be pampered, unless their willing to travel ale carte. The airlines have screwed each other by undercutting fares, otherwise like any other market, people will pay the going rate, even for travel Buck!

 

[Frank Szabo]

Are you sure you're on labor's side???? Deregulation has nothing to do with maintaining airplanes. How about reducing the interval times for certain maint. tasks, or how about keeping maint. & related accountable for their work. AA is expanding the times for maint. tasks and they don't keep amt's accountable. So, do you blame M&R or management????

Passengers do expect dependable aircraft because that's the deal they make with AA when they book their flight. They're paying for air travel between two or three points.....not to be pampered, unless their willing to travel ale carte. The airlines have screwed each other by undercutting fares, otherwise like any other market, people will pay the going rate, even for travel Buck!

Not so. During regulation, airlines were forced to charge a fare based on cost of service plus profit, fixed at that times by the CAB, I believe. Thanks to the peanut farmer, it became a price war.

Yes - the airlines were fat and inefficient due to the regulation but the aircraft were maintained properly and said maintenance was a point of pride for the United States. Is there some middle ground here?

 

[Buck]

Are you sure you're on labor's side???? Deregulation has nothing to do with maintaining airplanes. How about reducing the interval times for certain maint. tasks, or how about keeping maint. & related accountable for their work. AA is expanding the times for maint. tasks and they don't keep amt's accountable. So, do you blame M&R or management????

Passengers do expect dependable aircraft because that's the deal they make with AA when they book their flight. They're paying for air travel between two or three points.....not to be pampered, unless their willing to travel ale carte. The airlines have screwed each other by undercutting fares, otherwise like any other market, people will pay the going rate, even for travel Buck!

I am on labors side but I am mainly on the Mechanic and Related side. I am tired of those that claim to be labor, only to side with their "enemy". I have to be concerned with the company already, I do not need to be concerned with my agent, right? In the current labor market I would tend to side with the company against the TWU. I believe that under Regulation that Industrial Unionism was ok. But in the world of the Deregulated airline industry, it has come to the fact that I need to look out for me. From the days of the B-scale until today, the TWU, labors side has done nothing but thrown mechanics under their bus, all for the sake of those that live for a socialist form of government. I wonder why the Pilots and the Flight Attendants left to form their own union. Go to aanegotiations.com and look at some of the proposals that the company is placing in front of the pilots. Is it just because their is a pilot retirement campaign going, or is it just time for them to retire? I believe that you will find that they are retiring for the best shot at the most from their Pension(s). And what makes you think that there is shoddy work coming out of any station Line or Overhaul?