AMFA......read on

[iluvaa]

At this moment I'm more of an advocate for a larger 401k match. But I also would have no problem with the IAMPF being offered to our members as an alternative if they want a CHOICE. But I would not want to see the pension offered up to us as the ONLY option. There are too many stipulations that I have read in it and with those stipulations attached is why I would have to take a pass.
It can be modified basically at will as well and is insured for far less by the PBGC if something were ever to happen to it and it went insolvent and had to be passed on to them. 
I'm currently not a fan of the plan for me but when and or if the time comes I'll evaluate it again as best I can and make my choice as informed as possible.

i finally got to give weasels a plus one way to go bro it took awhile but you did it

 

[1AA]

I am not stating a fallacy, if you dont have enough money in a 401k it will end up with zero dollars, this has been proven already.
 
A Multi-employer DBP wont run out of money and is guaranteed, your 401k isnt, when Wall Street takes a down turn, so does your 401k, its not an unlimited supply of money.
 
Ask the anyone who had US, UA, NW, AA or DL stock in their 401k and what happened to it?
 
How stupid are you?
 
The IAMNPF cannot take your frozen money from the AA pension, its amazing you guys can even fix airplanes when you dont even educate yourself.
 

There you go calling people stupid again.

 

[1AA]

How many times did WN file Chapter 11 Bob?
 
WN has 700 planes and four lines of heavy.
 
Dont let the facts get in your way.

So the more aircraft you have the worse pension plan you have? Is that what your saying now? Is the amount of aircraft in the fleet a pension multiplier facture?

 

[WeAAsles]

i finally got to give weasels a plus one way to go bro it took awhile but you did it

I've not made any secrets about my feelings towards the pension and have had conversations about it on this forum before. Again IF it winds up being offered to us in the future I want to know what the offer is all about before I make my decision. I'd also want to know who are the companies involved in the plan and what are there future prospects for capital growth? How many participants are in the plan and what is the average age of the participants? I just don't want to think that one day the plan MAY be paying out more than it's taking in and that could affect my payout?

Anyone who wants to try and set up the best financial footing for themselves when they retire should do this research.

 

 

[FWAAA]

Our own Pension was a promise as well and we saw what almost happened to that. Thankfully there was intervention that basically forced AA to freeze the plan rather than throw it on the PBGC where I believe we would have had about a 40% cut to our benefits. I've already modified my 401k to account for the loss of future funding to my pension and expect to make even further modifications as I see my wages increase.

Are you a pilot?    I thought you previously posted that you were in Fleet Service.   If you're represented by the TWU, the termination of the AA pension plans (had it been permitted to occur) would not have cost you a cent in benefit cuts.    There's not a chance that your AA pension as a fleet service clerk would exceed the PBGC guarantee.   With very few exceptions, the AA pilots were the only workgroup to benefit from Gotbaum's fight to freeze the AA plans (instead of terminate them).   

 

[700UW]

Wrong.
 
My pension was terminated after 17 years in the plan, I will get $564 a month when I hit 50, and if I wait till 65 I will get $864 a month, my pension was cut severely because of the termination.

 

[FWAAA]

Wrong.
 
My pension was terminated after 17 years in the plan, I will get $564 a month when I hit 50, and if I wait till 65 I will get $864 a month, my pension was cut severely because of the termination.

No, I'm not wrong.    
 
Your monthly benefit  at age 50 (or 65 or any other age) is the benefit you had earned as of the termination of the US plans, and that benefit is the same it would have been had US frozen the plans instead of terminating them.   It's also the same benefit you would have collected had you quit US on the date of termination.  
 
Termination of the plans relieved US of any future contributions to the plans to catch up their underfunded status, but did not change the amount you had earned as of termination.  
 
With very few exceptions, the only workgroups who saw reductions to their earned pensions were the pilots, and that's because many of them had accrued a benefit that was larger than the PBGC maximum guarantee for underfunded plans.    

 

[1AA]

Wrong.
 
My pension was terminated after 17 years in the plan, I will get $564 a month when I hit 50, and if I wait till 65 I will get $864 a month, my pension was cut severely because of the termination.

You forgot to mention to us AAers that the IAM pension has a two tier plan. If we get in on it today our payout will not be the same as the incumbents. I went through the documents and looked at the chart that shows dollar figures and time vested and so on. We will not get as much and we will not be able to be fully vested since most of us will be gone between 5 to 12 years. The plan pays out $hiit compared to what we have with our 401K plan. We all looked at the plan at work and our own union officers said the IAM plan is garbage. So forget about the IAM pension plan and lets stay on topic. AMFA is the topic not the worthless IAM pension plan that you keep on insisting is a better plan than our 401K. We don't care for it one bit.
 
I will get $2,300 a month at 65 with my frozen pension plus my 401K which is more than the IAM plan plus my social security and other investments that help out. Social security will not hold my money hostage if I decide to work part time in the same field nor will my frozen pension. That is my money. The IAM on the other hand has restrictions and dictates to me how and when I can collect. That is criminal.

 

[Show me the money]

I could not agree more with 1AA. Nobody needs to come in and take what we have now to pay others with no intention of ever giving us back what they took. For a great many of AMT'S here at AA this upcoming negotiations, will be our last. We cannot have both the company and our union treating us like an ATM. We need to have open negotiations, and not an international who could careless about us other than the payday we provide for them. The give backs need to end. In Doug Parkers talks around the system when we ask about money and getting paid, we hear that model dosen't work any more. If that is the case lets look at his salary, is his pay in line with todays CEO's? We know that it is, so we are back to working to ensure that management gets it's money and bonuses and we do more for less. Doesn't sound like much of a model change. Our 401k contribution from the company needs to increase to be in line with the pilots and F/A's. We need a union for mechanics only, where we are paid for what we do and the liability unique to what we do. We do not need other groups voting with us. It needs to be our time now before this alliance sets us back 10 years.

 

[700UW]

You are truly clueless, no one has taken money from mtc to give to other groups.
 
Your own fellow mechanics ratified what you are working under.
 
Its amazing how you people think and justify what happened.

 

[1AA]

You are truly clueless, no one has taken money from mtc to give to other groups.
 
Your own fellow mechanics ratified what you are working under.
 
Its amazing how you people think and justify what happened.

YOU PEOPLE?
 
I will ask you again. Why do you care what we do at AA? Please no more my mailman's daughters uncles third cousin is a AMT. Let him or her speak for them-self.

 

[700UW]

Are you sure you can fix an airplane?
 
Because you certainly dont understand the concept of a message board forum.
 
ANYONE can post here, get use to it, use the ignore feature or just leave, lol.
 
The topic is not me, yet you and other constantly make it about me.
 
Yet you continually ignore the fact YOU and your fellow Mechanic and Related voted in the CBA, not the NC nor the International.  Accept personal responsibility, yet its easier for you to blame everyone else except the real issue, look in the mirror and look around when your at work and thats why you are in the situation you are in.

 

[MetalMover]

Are you sure you can fix an airplane?
 
Because you certainly dont understand the concept of a message board forum.
 
ANYONE can post here, get use to it, use the ignore feature or just leave, lol.
 
The topic is not me, yet you and other constantly make it about me.
 
Yet you continually ignore the fact YOU and your fellow Mechanic and Related voted in the CBA, not the NC nor the International.  Accept personal responsibility, yet its easier for you to blame everyone else except the real issue, look in the mirror and look around when your at work and thats why you are in the situation you are in.

Not that 1AA needs a defense, but for someone who claims to have no dog in this fight, you sure do defend the IAM vehemently.
One thing you need to understand is that many of us here have been in this business for decades and do not buy what you are selling. I do not doubt you were deeply involved in the IAM business, but you also need to understand that many of us are tired of the business as usual tactics of the both the IAM and TWU. 
You are NOT going to change anyone's mind no matter how much you claim that what you post is factual. We are sick and tired of these the industrial union "half a loaf is better than no loaf" and " we all pay the same for a quart of milk" mantra that I have been listening to for nearly 40 years. The way they conduct business with their arrogance is no different than the companies we work for. They are so desperate not to lose union dues, they treat us like they know whats best for us and do NOT give us a say in appointments and decisions other than voting on contracts and certain elections.  
And you are right! The topic is NOT you, but your defense of the IAM warrants criticism. 
With any good fortune, AMFA will get in, and both the TWU and IAM will be no longer have their clutches on our lives. 

 

[WeAAsles]

Are you a pilot?    I thought you previously posted that you were in Fleet Service.   If you're represented by the TWU, the termination of the AA pension plans (had it been permitted to occur) would not have cost you a cent in benefit cuts.    There's not a chance that your AA pension as a fleet service clerk would exceed the PBGC guarantee.   With very few exceptions, the AA pilots were the only workgroup to benefit from Gotbaum's fight to freeze the AA plans (instead of terminate them).   

The PBGC was quoted as saying in their belief the Pension was underfunded by 10 Bil. The Company was saying that their accounting was wrong and it was 5 Bil. Who are we to believe? Looking at the things I read yes we all would have taken a cut in earned benefits. Just ask any others who are under the PBGC today. Yes also the Pilots would have taken it in the shorts the hardest.

Now add on top of that the fact that the PBGC currently has a 30 Bil deficit to make future payouts. Who is coming to the rescue there? Are Taxpayers who have no pension of their own going to agree to say "Sure let's bail out the system" I highly doubt it. So one day what is going to happen to people's benefits when the system is overloaded. No bailout is my guess. So my guess is further benefit cuts. Had we been thrown in their it would have been the largest default in US history.

I can absolutely understand the urgency for others to want us in the IAMPF. They need as many people as they can get into it to make sure that future payouts are possible. There is no product sold to help keep it healthy. The product is those who are a part of it and what we contribute. It honestly is a classic pyramid and those who are on the top are the one's who benefit the most. And someone has to be on the bottom always.

 

[MetalMover]

The PBGC was quoted as saying in their belief the Pension was underfunded by 10 Bil. The Company was saying that their accounting was wrong and it was 5 Bil. Who are we to believe? Looking at the things I read yes we all would have taken a cut in earned benefits. Just ask any others who are under the PBGC today. Yes also the Pilots would have taken it in the shorts the hardest.

Now add on top of that the fact that the PBGC currently has a 30 Bil deficit to make future payouts. Who is coming to the rescue there? Are Taxpayers who have no pension of their own going to agree to say "Sure let's bail out the system" I highly doubt it. So one day what is going to happen to people's benefits when the system is overloaded. No bailout is my guess. So my guess is further benefit cuts. Had we been thrown in their it would have been the largest default in US history.

I can absolutely understand the urgency for others to want us in the IAMPF. They need as many people as they can get into it to make sure that future payouts are possible. There is no product sold to help keep it healthy. The product is those who are a part of it and what we contribute. It honestly is a classic pyramid and those who are on the top are the one's who benefit the most. And someone has to be on the bottom always.

Many workers got screwed by their companies and lost their pensions and had it reduced on the PBGC..I would not feel any safer having a UNION administer it.