AMFA......read on

[Bob Owens]

You truly dont understand a multi-employer pension plan do you?
 
Man Lombordo has his hand full with you, maybe he will realize you are a closet AMFA supporter.
 
So how is Thomas Paine doind?
 
A 401k will run out of funds, a multi-employer plan wont.

Must have hit a nerve and brought up things you don't want out.
 
Why is US full of old men who cant retire? Because their so called DB plan that the IAM had negotiated for them, which they were told supposedly would never run out of money, did. Lets say they had a cash balance plan from the beginning, my bet is they would have been more resistant to concessions and they would have a lot more coming to them than they do. 
 
Lets say that in negotiations that are controlled by the IAM a deal is struck to roll us all under the IAM plan, a multiemployer plan and that multi employer plan ended up in the PBGC, would we be insured as much as we would if our current AA plan ended up there? 
 
I want nothing to do with an alliance with a Union that would negotiate and sell bottom of the industry wages with a carrier that just posted $1.5 billion in profits in just one quarter. 
 
Sorry, I was willing to support you guys in getting a good deal, but you blew it big time, we have all been around too long to get swayed by the "we will get them next time" lie. You guys blew it. 

 

[700UW]

So the members get to elect local and district reps but the International gets to pick and chose which people negotiate. No thanks, besides under the alliance it states that the presidents pick period. Again, no thanks.

The District appoints the NC, the International has a GLR and any actuaries needed.

I dont see AMFA electing their negotiators and we all know you are in closet AMFA supporter.
 
And werent you on the NC, great job you did there bob.

 

[700UW]

Why is US full of old men who cant retire? Because their so called DB plan which supposedly would never run out of money did. 

Spin away with the misinformation.

Lets see US filed bankruptcy twice in less than two years.
 
Our pension was terminated in 2005, the IAMNPF wasnt negotiated till 2008, so they have only been in the plan six years.
 
Come on Bob, be honest for a change and stop with the misinformation, you whine and complain about everything yet you were on the NC and a leader, guess you have to blame everyone else for your problems and not yourself.
 
And if US' CBA is so bad, how come everything except the pay is better than what YOU negotiated?

 

[Bob Owens]

Spin away with the misinformation.
Lets see US filed bankruptcy twice in less than two years.
 
Our pension was terminated in 2005, the IAMNPF wasnt negotiated till 2008, so they have only been in the plan six years.
 
Come on Bob, be honest for a change and stop with the misinformation, you whine and complain about everything yet you were on the NC and a leader, guess you have to blame everyone else for your problems and not yourself.
 
And if US' CBA is so bad, how come everything except the pay is better than what YOU negotiated?

 
 
Because we, the people elected by the members, didn't negotiate it, that's why there is a DFR lawsuit in progress. 
 
US left BK eight years ago, how much longer are you going to blame everything on that? Both UAL and Delta left BK after US and both earn a lot more than US mechanics do with their brand new concessionary contract. 
 
Lets face it, we had corrupt Union officials who made sure AA got whatever they wanted, in return AA gave them pensions based on what the union paid them instead of what they would have earned in their regular job along with A-5 passes, and who knows what else? These Union officials have been removed but they will still get both their AA pensions based on what the Union paid plus their Union pensions. 
 
So what is the IAMs excuse for signing a deal eight years after bankruptcy with a company that just reported $1.5 billion in profits? Whats their excuse for signing a deal with a very profitable company with wages far below industry average? Are your officials corrupt as well? 

 

[AANYER]

 

700UW, on 14 Aug 2014 - 8:56 PM, said:

A 401k will run out of funds, a multi-employer plan wont.
 

 
700UW,
 
How in the world is a 401K going to run out of money.  You are stating a fallacy.  First of all, the investment vehicles and the market drives the rise and fall of your 401K assets. Additionally, if a 401K participant has a special situation, as in purchasing a home, he or she can withdraw funds to satisfy that goal.  More importantly, it is a cash and carry plan, meaning the company can't touch it and you take it with you when you leave.  No worries about having the PBGC to the rescue.  The last thing we need is for the IAM with their sticky fingers to perform a money grab of our last remaining pension funds in the Define Benefit plan that is frozen.  You also know that the IAM Define Benefit plan is useless to all of us because we have less than 10 years left with the company.  Vote the TWU/IAM alliance out by any means necessary.
 
AMFA Now More Than Ever.

 

[700UW]

I am not stating a fallacy, if you dont have enough money in a 401k it will end up with zero dollars, this has been proven already.
 
A Multi-employer DBP wont run out of money and is guaranteed, your 401k isnt, when Wall Street takes a down turn, so does your 401k, its not an unlimited supply of money.
 
Ask the anyone who had US, UA, NW, AA or DL stock in their 401k and what happened to it?
 
How stupid are you?
 
The IAMNPF cannot take your frozen money from the AA pension, its amazing you guys can even fix airplanes when you dont even educate yourself.

 

 

[WeAAsles]

IAM National Pension Plan.

If and when we get this plan initiated it will be a separate plan. This means that your AA frozen plan stays right where it is and the IAM plan will start as a NEW plan. You might have to wait for the vesting period, and if you are only in the plan for the next 2 years, you might not get any great benefit from it. But if you have another 10,15 or 20 years before you retire you might see a sizeable monthly check, each person would be different.

http://twu514.org/blog/2014/08/14/american-and-the-frozen-pension-plan/

 

[Bob Owens]

I am not stating a fallacy, if you dont have enough money in a 401k it will end up with zero dollars, this has been proven already.
 
A Multi-employer DBP wont run out of money and is guaranteed, your 401k isnt, when Wall Street takes a down turn, so does your 401k, its not an unlimited supply of money.
 
Ask the anyone who had US, UA, NW, AA or DL stock in their 401k and what happened to it?
 
How stupid are you?
 
The IAMNPF cannot take your frozen money from the AA pension, its amazing you guys can even fix airplanes when you dont even educate yourself.
 

And twenty years ago you were telling your coworkers that their DB plan would be there no matter what, that it is guaranteed. Sure its there, but the amounts they were told would be there aren't there, your guys cant afford to retire so that's why US is full of old men, what is the average age now? 57? 
 
Lets look at a WN mechanic who never had a DB, they now have a 9% match on their 401K. So the company is putting in around $10k, and they can afford to put in $20k, so around $30k per year. So over 30 years they would have at least $1,000,000 at 60 years of age. Using an even more conservative earnings protection than your IAM pension they could see $50,000/year just in interest and lets say they lived on 3/4 of their working income, they could expect to have more than enough to last them beyond 100 years of age and still leave a nice chunk of change to their heirs. 
 
Do you really want to compare that to the $2hr IAM plan? 

 

[700UW]

You wont have to wait, when US AMTs got into the plan, they were vested from Day one.

 

[700UW]

How many times did WN file Chapter 11 Bob?
 
WN has 700 planes and four lines of heavy.
 
Dont let the facts get in your way.

 

[Bob Owens]

IAM National Pension Plan.

If and when we get this plan initiated it will be a separate plan. This means that your AA frozen plan stays right where it is and the IAM plan will start as a NEW plan. You might have to wait for the vesting period, and if you are only in the plan for the next 2 years, you might not get any great benefit from it. But if you have another 10,15 or 20 years before you retire you might see a sizeable monthly check, each person would be different.

http://twu514.org/blog/2014/08/14/american-and-the-frozen-pension-plan/

At 53 how much could I expect from such a plan even if I stayed till 65? Not much, rather have the 401k on all earnings than see my money get invested in a promise. 
 
"Ifs" and "mights" sure doesnt sound like the great guarantee that 700 speaks of, at this point I'd rather keep cotrol of my own money than let someone else do it, especially the IAM. 

 

[Bob Owens]

How many times did WN file Chapter 11 Bob?
 

 
And if SWA did file they would still have every penny that was put in there and most of your old mechanics would have been able to retire had they had the same plan from day one. Their million would have been safe from SWA management. 

 

[WeAAsles]

At 53 how much could I expect from such a plan even if I stayed till 65? Not much, rather have the 401k on all earnings than see my money get invested in a promise. 

http://mypension.iamnpf.org/media/13873/ParticipantsNotice.pdf

 

[WeAAsles]

At this moment I'm more of an advocate for a larger 401k match. But I also would have no problem with the IAMPF being offered to our members as an alternative if they want a CHOICE. But I would not want to see the pension offered up to us as the ONLY option. There are too many stipulations that I have read in it and with those stipulations attached is why I would have to take a pass.

It can be modified basically at will as well and is insured for far less by the PBGC if something were ever to happen to it and it went insolvent and had to be passed on to them. 

I'm currently not a fan of the plan for me but when and or if the time comes I'll evaluate it again as best I can and make my choice as informed as possible.

 

[WeAAsles]

At 53 how much could I expect from such a plan even if I stayed till 65? Not much, rather have the 401k on all earnings than see my money get invested in a promise. 
 
"Ifs" and "mights" sure doesnt sound like the great guarantee that 700 speaks of, at this point I'd rather keep cotrol of my own money than let someone else do it, especially the IAM. 

Our own Pension was a promise as well and we saw what almost happened to that. Thankfully there was intervention that basically forced AA to freeze the plan rather than throw it on the PBGC where I believe we would have had about a 40% cut to our benefits. I've already modified my 401k to account for the loss of future funding to my pension and expect to make even further modifications as I see my wages increase.