AMFA......read on

[iluvaa]

On another note.  I talked to a long time AMT today who won't sign and AMFA card.  He agreed that the TWU has stolen his dues his whole career and keep him the lowest paid in the industry while giving away his benefits in the process.  He also agreed that it was not right that we have no voice in our own representation as far as the international level and agreed that having the right to vote them out as in AMFA was the better way.  He agreed that AMFA represented employees are higher paid and have much better benefits.  When I handed him a card to sign he gave it back to me and said he preferred the devil he knew to the devil he didn't.  He also said he was looking to retire soon since his wife had a good job with good medical.  After resisting the urge to beat my head against the wall, I told him that refusing to sign an AMFA card so those of us who will not be retiring soon have a say in who represents us is tantamount to taking his ball and going home.  He had no answer for that but still refused to sign a card.  If anyone out there can try to explain this mentality please do.  There are many like this guy in Tulsa and we must figure out a way to get through to them.  If we cannot we are doomed to remain the lowest paid AMTs in the entire airline industry.  We will watch the other work groups in our own union enjoy benefits that we will never see again and also watch AMTs from all other airlines secure pay and benefits that we could only dream of.  We are only as strong as our weakest link and there are quite a few of them here in Tulsa.

i have been an organizer since 2003 and this is the reason I just can't do it anymore. I signed my card and wear a shirt but I refuse to try and get dumbasses on board anymore.

 

[blue collar]

You couldn't be more wrong.  If you are an AMT then your pay and benefits have not gone up.  Your pay went up because the TWU traded a raise for one week of vacation and other concessions such as work rules.  So mine have not risen and neither have yours if you are an AMT.  

I am an AMT, although not at AA. I don't have an answer as to why the majority of those who voted, voted yes to your CBAs. I do know that trying to knock each other down to fight for the scraps only has one winner - capital. That's it.

 

[enough already]

On another note.  I talked to a long time AMT today who won't sign and AMFA card.  He agreed that the TWU has stolen his dues his whole career and keep him the lowest paid in the industry while giving away his benefits in the process.  He also agreed that it was not right that we have no voice in our own representation as far as the international level and agreed that having the right to vote them out as in AMFA was the better way.  He agreed that AMFA represented employees are higher paid and have much better benefits.  When I handed him a card to sign he gave it back to me and said he preferred the devil he knew to the devil he didn't.  He also said he was looking to retire soon since his wife had a good job with good medical.  After resisting the urge to beat my head against the wall, I told him that refusing to sign an AMFA card so those of us who will not be retiring soon have a say in who represents us is tantamount to taking his ball and going home.  He had no answer for that but still refused to sign a card.  If anyone out there can try to explain this mentality please do.  There are many like this guy in Tulsa and we must figure out a way to get through to them.  If we cannot we are doomed to remain the lowest paid AMTs in the entire airline industry.  We will watch the other work groups in our own union enjoy benefits that we will never see again and also watch AMTs from all other airlines secure pay and benefits that we could only dream of.  We are only as strong as our weakest link and there are quite a few of them here in Tulsa.  

I work with a whole shop full of these guys in Tulsa...   :-/

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

On another note.  I talked to a long time AMT today who won't sign and AMFA card.  He agreed that the TWU has stolen his dues his whole career and keep him the lowest paid in the industry while giving away his benefits in the process.  He also agreed that it was not right that we have no voice in our own representation as far as the international level and agreed that having the right to vote them out as in AMFA was the better way.  He agreed that AMFA represented employees are higher paid and have much better benefits.  When I handed him a card to sign he gave it back to me and said he preferred the devil he knew to the devil he didn't.  He also said he was looking to retire soon since his wife had a good job with good medical.  After resisting the urge to beat my head against the wall, I told him that refusing to sign an AMFA card so those of us who will not be retiring soon have a say in who represents us is tantamount to taking his ball and going home.  He had no answer for that but still refused to sign a card.  If anyone out there can try to explain this mentality please do.  There are many like this guy in Tulsa and we must figure out a way to get through to them.  If we cannot we are doomed to remain the lowest paid AMTs in the entire airline industry.  We will watch the other work groups in our own union enjoy benefits that we will never see again and also watch AMTs from all other airlines secure pay and benefits that we could only dream of.  We are only as strong as our weakest link and there are quite a few of them here in Tulsa.  

 
OldGuy
 
I have seen the same apathy at the two stations I have worked while here at AA.
 
LAX and now MIA, as an organizer myself many ask the same questions over and over.
 
If you Look up information and hand it to them they still say do I have to read this can't you just tell me what it says. If you ask has the TWU effectively improved your wages and life style in the yrs you have worked here most say "NO" so again I ask them why not sign a card?
 
I get the answer I would rather have No union, asked why, they say what is really going to change? The name on the union door but what else? they can't see that with AMFA we can change the culture here at AA.
 
The TWU has worked with the company to keep as many employed as possible at the cost of wages and benefits that the AA mechanics just Don't care any more.
AA throws O/T and guys just eat it up. For what I have to do here at AA where else could I go and get this pay. If we change unions the same guys will run for the positions so what will change? The ability to remove them easier will be the change. Guys will just have to step up and get involved.
 
The ability to invoke self help is gone as well, so what can unions do to combat the attacks from Corp. America? Most are over extended in debt that they would not jeopardize the pay check. many have seen Eastern, PanAM, TWA, AirFlorida, NorthWest, and many other carriers just GO Away. They want to do their time and walk away.
 
CAL merged with UAL but still has not merged employees or contracts.
 
Soon USAir will be absorbed by AA, How long will it take to merge these two groups?
The Pilots from AW and US still don't get along so what are the primadona AA Pilots going to do? Not the bed of roses there either.
 
Delta took NWA after the strike how much was lost in Minnesota and did anyone care? 
 
At the end of this current contract we will still be behind the 2003 contract.
USAir just signed a deal but still makes less than us per A&P lic.
 
AMFA has to show the way at Alaska and SWA that things are different. 
The NEC of AMFA needs to be more vocal in the industry. But due to its size has a hard time with that. Maybe if we can bring AMFA here the size of AA will spur a industry change. Maybe having American Airlines guy's as NEC officers will add a element or spark to bring back the pride and caring most of us had when we all began our careers.
 
Lets hope we get a vote and that AA mechanics from Both title 1&2 participate as well as the USAir mechanics.

 

[Rogallo]

All we can hope for now is that the smart now out number the dumb!

 

[Bob Owens]

Nope, you are totally wrong on how the IAM staffs a negotiating committee.
 
But your not in the IAM and havent been over 20 years, so you cant comment, how does it feel to use your own words against you?
 
Let me explain this once again to you.
 
The negotiating committee I was on at US for the IAM in 2004 and 2005 consisted of:
 
The PDGC of 142 who was a mechanic for TW before becoming an officer. Rank & File or appointed official?
A GLR from the International who was a former mechanic for TW before becoming a GLR. Rank & File or appointed official?
Two Grievance Committee Chairman the one from CLT was a Lead Mechanic, the one from PHL was a line mechanic, both rank and file employees.
The President and Grievance Committee Chairman from PIT who was a Lead Mechanic and a rank and file employee.
A GC from 142 who was a GSE Mechanic at US.Rank & File or appointed official?
A GC from 142 who was a Lead Mechanic from US.Rank & File or appointed official?
A GC who was a Mechanic from PIT.Rank & File or appointed official?
Me who represented Stores and Utility and a rank and file employee.
 
 

And who selected you for that position, were you elected by your peers to be on the committee or appointed by your International?
 
So of the 10 people there three were Rank and file? 
 
 
 
With this "Alliance" the International Presidents of the IAM and TWU chose who gets to negotiate. 
 
 
That alone makes this unacceptable.

 

[700UW]

Bob,
 
For a man who is pretty smart why do you post lies and misinformation?

The IAMNPF is 105% funded per the ERISA.
 
And you dont have an accruing AA pension, your pension is frozen, no more accruals.
 
So why the lies?
 
And the NC is appointed by the District and the International.
 
And by the members electing them to their local, and district positions they are elected defacto.
 
And the IAMNPF cant by law take your frozen pension.
 
Once again why with the lies and scare tactics?

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob,
 
For a man who is pretty smart why do you post lies and misinformation?
The IAMNPF is 105% funded per the ERISA.
 
And you dont have an accruing AA pension, your pension is frozen, no more accruals.
 
So why the lies?
 
And the NC is appointed by the District and the International.
 
And by the members electing them to their local, and district positions they are elected defacto.
 
And the IAMNPF cant by law take your frozen pension.
 
Once again why with the lies and scare tactics?

Who is lying? You know damned well that those numbers are due to adjustments that dont really put any more money in those plans, its a scam made to make plans look healthier than they are while allowing the sponsors of the plans to put less money in them. 
 
 
IAM $2 plan equals $4160
Our current 5.5% match equals $4278.56, before OT and Holidays, company projected 12% of all hours would be on OT, that adds another $700 so figure around $5000. 
 
So do we want an IAM promise that's funded by $4160 from the company or $5k in cash put in our accounts that we contraol? 

 

[700UW]

You truly dont understand a multi-employer pension plan do you?
 
Man Lombordo has his hand full with you, maybe he will realize you are a closet AMFA supporter.
 
So how is Thomas Paine doind?
 
A 401k will run out of funds, a multi-employer plan wont.

 

[blue collar]

A 401k will run out of funds, a multi-employer plan wont.

Not if they keep cutting future accruals, but you can't be certain that they won't run out of money.. Anything can happen.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

I am an AMT, although not at AA. I don't have an answer as to why the majority of those who voted, voted yes to your CBAs. I do know that trying to knock each other down to fight for the scraps only has one winner - capital. That's it.

There were two reasons they voted yes.  The first was AA and the TWU knew that the average age of AMTs was about 54 with many over the age of 60 so they threw in a $40K bribe for retirement.  This money was paid by the non retiring AMTs' with a loss of one week of vacation and work rule changes that gave AA more ways to hose us.  The rest of the yes voters were told by the TWU that if they voted no they would lose their jobs and the sky would fall.  Many of the yes voters lost their jobs due to layoffs anyway.  The TA passed by a total of 48 votes with 74% of Tulsa voting yes and 26% voting no. The yes votes were secured at the Tulsa base where the TWU spread the most fear and misinformation.  The frightened AMTs in Tulsa have not realized that the number of AMTs here keeps getting smaller and continue to listen to the rhetoric from local 514 that tells them that without the TWU the company would close the Tulsa base.  Meanwhile we see our work going out the door to third party outfits and our MD80s and 757s (the bulk of the work in Tulsa) diminish as each month passes.  These morons have not realized that the TWU has saved no jobs and has not kept track of all the outsourcing AA has done.  The TWU is more interested in giving AA the opportunity to force AMTs into lower paid AMTO positions where they lose $5 per hour but have to do the same job as they did before for more money.  I guess it doesn't bother them that stock clerks drive by in forklifts and enjoy 100% sick time pay, longevity pay, 6 weeks of vacation and other benefits deemed too generous for AMTs that actually pay more in dues than any stock clerk on the property.  They ignore the fact that the TWU has secured pay raises for Simulator Techs so they are paid more per hour than AMTs who work on actual aircraft and engines and components.  (On a side note I am looking for the article in any newspaper about the simulator that simulated a crash that several hundred simulated people died and the FAA is having a simulated hearing to investigate the simulator mechanic and will levy a simulated fine along with a simulated prison sentence.)  They forgot that while we were duped into the 2003 contract that was sold as a 5 year deal and ended up being a 9 year deal that had absolutely no raises from 2008 on while AA jacked the medical premiums and awarded generous bonuses to management.  The term you can't fix stupid comes to mind very often.  I am actually considering voting no union if there are only two choices on the ballot as I am desperate to be rid of the TWU and their continued discrimination against me and my fellow AMTs.  If this is the only way to kick them out so be it.  I'll take my chances.  I had hoped that by now there would be so many angry people the TWU wouldn't stand a chance, but I must think that if they aren't angry by now they never will be.  

 

[Zom JFK]

Thanks Kev,

This is something that someone here should explain to me because it must be beyond my comprehension.I hear this coat tale crap wayyyyyyyyyy to much without a justification for this type of mentality.In fact, this type of mentality continues to divide us and provides fuel for the pyre.JMHO-The people that believe this are delusional and in some respects are insecure as to whom they are.Do you (meaning the individuals that adhere to this philosophy) think that by ranting to reduce the wages of others will somehow(?) put their(!) pennies in you own pocket?(FYI, the penny watchers are scooping up all of the pennies, not you).Would it not be more logical to state that if a pickle picker employee makes X then I should make = X + (X*j) for my skills? And, if the value of X is raised, would not the formula of I should make be raised as well?For those that adhere to the mantra to reduce the wages of those that you deem below your status in your misguided search for higher wages are not only belittling yourselves but your fellow workers.If we work together to raise the value of X then we work to raise the value of I should make'.

B) xUT

Excellent post.
 

He's spot on with that and that's what I've always thought too, no need to knock someone's pay down- bring it up, and so too will mine rise.

Crandall told the mechs that line of crap in the 80s. I would love to pay you more but look what I have to pay the unskilled he said. Some have been running with that ball ever since. I support ALL working class people any way I can. I wish the AA mechanics success in their efforts to rid themselves of the twu. Just remember guys the only ones getting a raise off your backs is management!

 

[1AA]

You truly dont understand a multi-employer pension plan do you?
 
Man Lombordo has his hand full with you, maybe he will realize you are a closet AMFA supporter.
 
So how is Thomas Paine doind?
 
A 401k will run out of funds, a multi-employer plan wont.

With a 401K it is my money and I can withdraw it as early as 59 1/2 without a penalty. With the IAM pension I can not. I have to wait until 65 and not work in any related field. If I do the IAM will stop my pension. So is it really my money to do with as I see fit when I retire? No!! My match varies based on overtime and holidays and other additional hours worked. The IAM pension does not. The IAM can shove their pension up their royal union A$$. Most of us won't have enough time employed to exercise the full benefits of the IAM pension.

 

[MetalMover]

With a 401K it is my money and I can withdraw it as early as 59 1/2 without a penalty. With the IAM pension I can not. I have to wait until 65 and not work in any related field. If I do the IAM will stop my pension. So is it really my money to do with as I see fit when I retire? No!! My match varies based on overtime and holidays and other additional hours worked. The IAM pension does not. The IAM can shove their pension up their royal union A$$. Most of us won't have enough time employed to exercise the full benefits of the IAM pension.

They probably made the withdrawal age 65 because of the screwing they helped force feed the members, they will have to work til at least 65.

 

[Bob Owens]

 
 
And the NC is appointed by the District and the International.
 
And by the members electing them to their local, and district positions they are elected defacto.
 
And the IAMNPF cant by law take your frozen pension.
 
Once again why with the lies and scare tactics?

So the members get to elect local and district reps but the International gets to pick and chose which people negotiate. No thanks, besides under the alliance it states that the presidents pick period. Again, no thanks.