Amfa Card Count

[Birdman]

Hackman, I understand why CIO might be hesitant to answer IN WRITING. In Tulsa many (maybe including CIO) are proclaiming the contract WOULD BE void (abrogated) if AMFA were to become our new representative. The result they say? MASSIVE LAYOFFS (FEAAR). The implications are that there would be IMMEDIATE layoffs at AA, hence, if you don't have late 80's seniority YOUR GONE. Every informed individual (and even CIO) knows this to be UNTRUE but many in Tulsa are UNinformed. THE CONTRACT BECOMES AMMENDABLE DEC. 31 2008 REGARDLESS OF WHO REPRESENTS US. Second, AA WOULD NOT "CHANGE A THING" IN THE CONTRACT if AMFA were to become our representative. They have the LOWEST average wage in the industry and aim to keep it.
How else can Tulsa be controlled? It appears they must be deceived into submission. The line (title 1) averages 84% signed cards to authorize an election. Tulsa 33%. MCI 25%. CIO, by your refusal to answer you left me no choice. Now tell me I'm wrong. Yours, Birdman

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

cio is nothing but a twu puppet. Come on Rick Mullings step up to the plate and state for the record that when AMFA gets in at AA the contract is void. You know that is not true. For Tulsa AMTs reading this the twu is using fear tactics to remain in power. They are purposely telling you lies. Educate yourself. When AMFA got in at UAL and NWA and SWA they were stuck with shitty contracts negoiated by the previous inept industrial union. If there are questions you have about AMFA ask a twu rep. for an answer. Then ask AMFA National. AMFA will give you facts. The twu will give you lies and half truths.

 

[1AA]

8534 Total Signed Election Authorization Cards by Station and Title Group:
Updated, Wednesday December 24, 2003 at 12:05:13 AM. Our goal is to obtain 60% of the Craft and Class of Mechanic and Related, and at this time, our estimate of that number, with 'elbow room' is approximately 9,634 cards.

Using that number, at this time, we are about 88.6% to our goal, or approximately 53.2% of our Craft and Class. Good job so far, and let's
REDOUBLE our efforts and GET THIS DONE!



We picked up 130 cards since last Saturday. It looks like the drive is in full steam. Just in time for the big debate in Tulsa.

 

[Bob Owens]

8534 Total Signed Election Authorization Cards by Station and Title Group:
Updated, Wednesday December 24, 2003 at 12:05:13 AM. Our goal is to obtain 60% of the Craft and Class of Mechanic and Related, and at this time, our estimate of that number, with 'elbow room' is approximately 9,634 cards.

Using that number, at this time, we are about 88.6% to our goal, or approximately 53.2% of our Craft and Class. Good job so far, and let's
REDOUBLE our efforts and GET THIS DONE!



We picked up 130 cards since last Saturday. It looks like the drive is in full steam. Just in time for the big debate in Tulsa.

Keep talking TEAM-TWU, CIO and TWUer.

With every post you make, every question you avoid, every lie you tell another card gets signed.

Over 100 cards this past week alone!

Only 1100 more till they reach the goal of 60%, they could file now, but why rush? The fact is that the majority have already said they want a vote.

Go AMFA- Go AGW. Two unions for the Industry! We know that what we have does not work, at least with the AMFA and AGW we will have unions that will concentrate on workers in this industry.

In the TWU Mechanics and Fleet service have been like two divorced people forced to live together. Perhaps apart we can rediscover our mutual issues and establish a new respect for each other.

 

[Oldweirdharold]

CIO, Can you please answer the questions I posed to you on this thread? I, in return will certainly and honestly answer yours. Yours,Birdman


<< I'll answer your question and it's simple we as a group are protected under Federal law which gives us the right to* FREELY * chose our collective barganing agent and if a change is made the current contract stays in force until it becomes ammendable or both sides agree to an opener..... Yes it's really that simple although it's like pulling teeth getting twu to tell you YOUR RIGHTS...

We also have the right upheld by court order to wear other union shirts besides twu on AA property .. We have rights to distrubute and post literature from other unions or prospective barganing agents on AA property.. The twu met all of this talk of change and accountability by punishing members and subjecting them to kangaroo style non judical proceedings with threats of job loss... Does this sound like America to you?? Kinda sounds like a foreign dictatorship and is alien to what this country means to most citizens...

The results of this and the education of the membership concerning what they can and can't do horrifies the twu, who in reality would love to keep things just the way they are.. Now rather than make excuses or hope for the best we need to hold them accountable, a quick study will reveal we've been going backwards since 1983 I've personally witnessed this in action with a changing of the guard twice ( officers) and three different presidents , but the message remains the same, ''We'll get them next time'' and or ''That's the best we can do considering current conditions we better take it brother'' These industry firsts have come in the form of concessions for AMTS ...... That's the facts and I dare you or anyone to refute this position...

They say '' Get involved '' here's another fact .... We have membership in which less than 1/10 of 1% attend membership meetings, and to assure twu keeps and retains a certain type of individual elected to office rules are in place stating prospective members in good standing running for office must attend 3 membership meetings within 12 months to be eligible, this narrows the field and was also challenged in court and found to be unconstitutional and was struck down....

The reason cio will not respond nor his alter ego teaamtwu to valid questions is because they have a vested interest in keeping you in your present state, confused, defeated weakened and believing you are just damn lucky to have a job. I liken this condition we find ourselves in to why a woman would stay in an abusive relationship in which a man beats his wife... twu only beats us every few years for some concessions but keeps us silent with little gifts of shirts, hats and popcorn, hotdogs etc..I want the beatings to stop and I want more than a T shirt or idiotic ball cap.....Does this answer your question????>>>


Jim Anderson dock 4 D

 

[TeamTWU]

Excellent post Jim, I applaud you. What all did you call or were meaning to call our membership? Were the court rulings for Tulsa temporary and for only Tulsa , or were there other later litigations I missed?

I have not found our membership to be horrified, not at all Jim, have you or are you? Pulling teeth to tell the membership their rights? Rights of what? T-Shirt issues are really not issues are they? AMFA's record of furlough and outsourcing is an issue, not a $7 t-shirt.

The TWU punished members for what Jim? I believe reprimand to be a better word, and not for what you stated, true?

Jim, I hope the best for you and yours during the Holiday Season and God bless the TWU!

 

[Checking it Out]

Just a reminder, Amfa has claimed in the past they have certain amount of cards when they do not. This is a typical amfa ploy and they intend to deceive the members into believing they have more cards than they have.

Amfa intends on inflating the numbers like they did at United and than attempt to blame the TWU. Look here to see this in work at USAIR;

Lies about card count 54%

Latter in the month;

47% card count

Meeting in September;

Kevin Wildermouth claims 33% valid cards

Who is lieing or telling the truth you be the Judge!

In September 2001 amfa delle claimed to have over 50% valid cards and failed to call for an election at AA, another lie?

If you go by the card counts and numbers here at AA I suspect the valid card count is closer to 40% and the numbers have been inflated. This is easy to believe and I believe it is the truth. If amfa actually had over 50% than amfa national would be paying for the advertising and Brady theater instead of local 12 begging for money.

Amfa is inflating the numbers to keep the organizers motivated, anyone with common sense understands that a good portion of the cards are expiring sooner than you are led to believe. Many comments have been made in the last 30 days by key organizers at several stations.

 

[Oldweirdharold]

Pontifications of CIO;

Amfa is inflating the numbers to keep the organizers motivated, anyone with common sense understands that a good portion of the cards are expiring sooner than you are led to believe. Many comments have been made in the last 30 days by key organizers at several stations.

Okie dokie, if card drive began March 15th I have trouble seeing expiring cards as yet save a few retirements, deaths and normal attrition but fact remains the line stations are almost 100% AMFA.. The only questions or comments comming from key organizers there would have something to do with the fog over Tulsa which may soon lift if the debate gets proper coverage, better contact your media boys to put your slant on the meeting also have Jerry Sowells on hand to juggle or compete in the pie eating contest... What if you are wrong??? Do you have a plan B
Keep spining it guys you are doing a great job. Cya under the big top...

Jim-

 

[Rusty]

Jerry Sowell, one of the TWU's guns will be there??? A disgruntled/displaced IAM officer??? that has to be a lot of clout for the TWU. LMAO

It just gets better and better!!!

 

[Bob Owens]

Just a reminder, Amfa has claimed in the past they have certain amount of cards when they do not. This is a typical amfa ploy and they intend to deceive the members into believing they have more cards than they have.

Amfa intends on inflating the numbers like they did at United and than attempt to blame the TWU. Look here to see this in work at USAIR;

Lies about card count 54%

Latter in the month;

47% card count

Meeting in September;

Kevin Wildermouth claims 33% valid cards

Who is lieing or telling the truth you be the Judge!

In September 2001 amfa delle claimed to have over 50% valid cards and failed to call for an election at AA, another lie?

If you go by the card counts and numbers here at AA I suspect the valid card count is closer to 40% and the numbers have been inflated. This is easy to believe and I believe it is the truth. If amfa actually had over 50% than amfa national would be paying for the advertising and Brady theater instead of local 12 begging for money.

Amfa is inflating the numbers to keep the organizers motivated, anyone with common sense understands that a good portion of the cards are expiring sooner than you are led to believe. Many comments have been made in the last 30 days by key organizers at several stations.

Or it could be that the guys at USAIR who were collecting cards only counted the guys who were still working? You have to remember that AMFA does not pay an organizing staff like the TWU. Members come to AMFA, AMFA does not pay people to go around soliciting and promising things to get members. So they may have sent in the cards thinking they had 50% when in fact they only had 50% of those still working. Thats an error not a lie.

I did not see any evidence supporting your claim that Wildermuth said they only had 33% but if he did so what? The letter in July stated that many cards were due to expire.

A lie is something like Jim Little saying "Not on my watch" would we agree to long term concessions. A lie is telling the members back in 95 that they dont have to worry about only 6% over 6 years because the "me too" clause will tie us to whatever raises the pilots got when they knew that our early out nulified the "ME too" clause.

The TWU has gotten so good at lieing that they dont know the difference between a lie and an error.

Its time for the TWU to go! AMFA and the AGW NOW!

We know our past, present and future with the TWU. Its called a nosedive. It was on the graph that Local 562 put in the ad in the Tulsa World last April. With the brief exception of the AMFA spike in 2001 it has been a consistant decline that will leave us roughly $14/ below the CPI adjusted rate in order to maintain our buying power at what mechanics lived on in the early 80s.

$14/hr! Thats nearly $30,000 less per year !!

Prior to AMFA at NWA we were around $7/hr under the CPI. AMFA restored the rate for all mechanics. The TWU is now sending out literature blasting AMFA. Most of the lies are virtual carbon copies of union busting campain literature. You could replace the word TWU and plug in Walmart and plug in Unions where it says AMFA and see that what the TWU is selling is that high wages will result in job losses. They are selling low wages and less benifits as being what is good for you. The same arguements that the enemies of labor have always used. "A low wage is better than no wage. " "Save yourselves, save the company." "The company loves you but they have to compete." "Its a tough world out there, you dont know how good you got it here." These are all company lines used to bust unions, and they are what is coming out of the TWU. Whereas the Union arguement-TWU as the exception because its not really a union- has always been that they will fight for the work and higher wages- not trade one off for the other, certainly never trade off wages. There is no way that any real union would give into pay cuts and concessions AND LAYOFFS in order to increase the production of a company. Layoffs always resulted from decreased production.

I went into this profession for two reasons. I like airplanes and I wanted to make good money. If I just wanted to work on airplanes and was happy with peanuts for wages I would have went into General Aviation, and worked days with weekends and Holidays off. I like working on airplanes but I want a high wage.

For the TWU high wages is not the goal. Their goal is not High paying jobs but dues paying jobs. They have no connection to what we do as aircraft mechanics. We are simply one of the many different types of workers that provide the International money for perks like Posh offices on Broadway($900,000 rent), Cars ($345,000), Exhorbitant Salaries ($200,000) and other perks that they use our dues money for that they want us to help them conceal from everyone, including us.

In the TWUs latest "Reason # 2", which I noticed is physically much smaller ( although they still overpaid on postage- what the hell its our money anyway right? This is how our dues are used))than the "Reason #1" the TWU blasted AMFA for contracting out work. But they fail to mention that AMFA has a grievance in on that. If AA were to do the same what could the TWU do about it? Nothing, we have no limit.

Whatever happened to our "Force Majeure" grievance? The fact is that AA keeps the work in house for only one reason, they cant get it done cheaper anywhere else.We dont need to pay a union two hours pay per month to get us lower wages. We need a union to fight for the work and higher wages.

When AMFA fought for and got the huge increase that we all benifitted from they did so under a PEB. When is the last time the TWU negotiated under a PEB? Under those conditions choices have to be made. At the time what was the most pressing demand by aircraft mechanics who were in short supply? Wages. And thats what they got, and still have, unlike us.

How likely would it have been to get both the wages and a complete prohibition on outsourcing out of a PEB? Not likely. The wage arguement was sellable, to couple that with a demand to be able to tell the company how to run its business would not have flown. The fact is that we have no such protections either, instead we had "p"s and "S"s. And we saw how firm they stood. NOT!

The TWU does not fight for us. Instead of uniting us and using our strength they sell fear. "You will all lose your jobs". They do what the company usually does. They are a company union. In good times they tell us that "You have to give a little to get a little, thats negotiations". So they negotiate increases in pay, that will be eroded by inflation in exchange for decreases in benifits that are not eroded by inflation. So years later the pay increase has lost its value and the benifits are gone. Another Win Win for the company, thanks to the TWU! In the bad times they tell us about "sacrifices" and that "we cant ask for anything and must give concessions or we will not have a job". So in good times and bad with the TWU we will give concessions. Sooner or later there will be nothing left. After 20 years of concessions do we really need to give them yet another chance? Can we afford to?

The TWU "negotiates" the lowest wages in the industry. They use confusing and elaborate pay structures to hide this. While some did get the top wage the overall wage is the lowest. At the 2001 contract they did match and slightly surpass the NWA/AMFA top rate, but those not at top yet recieved smaller increases than those at the top. Besides the TWU only kept that rate in place for slightly over a year.Before the Concessions we had OSMS, and their wages were still lower than post bankruptcy UAL and USAIR.

The Union completely failed to explain or even attempt to exploit the dynamics of a large company like AA. Despite the victory at UPS which made this clear- for which President Carey was subsequently railroaded out by the sellouts in the labor movement and industry. The fact is that even in hard economic times like this, with high unemployment the company still could not withstand a strike. We saw that back in 93 when the flight attendants struck. The company has grown even bigger since then. Between security clearences, background checks and skills the pool of qualified people who are unemployed is still not big enough to make it where the company can withstand a strike. Thats why they continue to swell the ranks of management while laying off workers, and the TWU is doing nothing about it.

The TWU keeps using the "fear" tactic. That the sky would fall if we did not give the company everything it asked for. What is ironic is that the TWU was born out of a similar situation. The Transit companies cut wages by 10%. This was during the Great Depression. A time of great economic dificulty that pales what is going on now. The unions in place sided with the company and agreed that the cuts were neccesary. Mike Quill and others dissagreed and set out to form the TWU, a union that would unite all the industry under one umbrella. The structure of unionism in the NYC TRansit industry was similar to what we have in this industry, only what we have is worse. Workers that did similar work were spread out between many different unions, the few that specialized in the Transit industry were company unions. Each union encouraged their members to take cuts because if they didn't then the company and the union that did agree to cuts could undercut them and their membership would decrease while the union that took cuts would increase.

Under the TWU and Mike Quill wages were no longer the means to gain a competative edge between companies. However, in our industry things have come full circle. Now the TWU is one of many different unions. They are the ones telling their members that they are powerless to fight against lower living standards and must agree to massive concessions. The TWU is doing this for the same reason that the pre-TWU transit unions did-because protecting and expanding the dues base became more important than the members quality of life. The TWU has been using short term crisis' to slip in permanent concessions and long term contracts that allow the company to expand. When it becomes clear that the concessions were excessive and the contract too long they simply blame the members for voting it in.

The airlines is a cyclical industry. Always has been. With those cycles comes layoffs. In the past short progressions to top pay and excellent wages and benifits under regulation made it so that the layoffs were an accepted fact of working in this industry, so if you were Junior, and you had some sense, you banked as much as you could in anticpation of the layoff. You could because you made a good wage.

Over the last twenty years, some things have changed while others have not. The cycles are still there. So are the layoiffs. But the high wages and short progressions are not. Infact not only are the progressions longer but they are steeper and end loaded. This means that our most junior brothers and sisters are in a particularly vulnerable position. They make peanuts and they cant put anything away to weather out a layoff. This makes them particularly vulnerable to the "fear" factor. The TWU was completely disengenous to our most Junior employees. They told them to vote for concessions to save their jobs with full knowledge that in fact they were voting to remove system protection from themselves.

Because of the vulnerability of our most junior employees I made a recommendation to Little that we work out a system of rolling layoffs. Every worker, at his choosing by seniority would take off a couple of weeks as an unpaid layoff. This would have benifited both the company and the members, assuming that the company's sole objective was survival and not to exploit the situation to screw the workforce. By having the rolling layoff the savings by having top paid workers take a few weeks off would offset the benifit costs of keeping the lowest paid on payroll while at the same time lowering overall payroll expense. As the demand for air travel picked up all the workers would be in place, morale would be good because even though annual income would be lowered-although some would undoubtably use the time to make money on the outside, the employees hourly wage would not have been cut. It would have fostered a team effort approach where all made a sacrifice but none were put in extreme hardship. AA would have been in the best position to scoop up the added demand while at the same time having a happy motivated workforce. While they may still be in such a position, thanks to the TWU provided cost advantage, their ability to deliver the product that AA customers expect with a demoralized workforce is another matter.

Instead of moderate hardship for everyone, a shared sacrifice, Jim Little opted for imposing a permanent hardship on the entire workforce along with an extreme hardship on our least senior workforce. He opted for a package that completely destroyed morale systemwide which may put AA into more jeapordy than the financial crisis of 2003. Coincidentally this package was desiged to maximize our losses while minimizing the loss of dues revenue. This was done by eliminating virtually everything that does not get calculated into the mothly dues pament.

All one needs to do is look at how long it takes to load a plane at JFK, how the company eliminated a lot of the maintenance on aircraft and how that is causing delays, how people, despite the tight labor market are quitting AA and going elswhere to see the devastating effect this has had on the morale. Not only have they destroyed morale within the company but many of those they laid off have become assetts to AAs competitors and are not going to return.


Unfortunately the TWU cares nothing about all of this. They have preserved the dues base and may be likely to expand it even more if they are recognized by AMR (with a 35% showing of interest) to represent more of their non union employees as has happened in the past. Its formula is to "work with" the company, even if the company seeks lower wages and less benifits for the workers. Its a formula that has been successful at sweeling the ranks of dues payers for the TWU for twenty years. Its been a disaster for airline workers across the entire industry. THe TWU is a malignant force in the airline labor movement, it needs to be cut out.


Its time for AMFA and the AGW.

8500 cards and climbing for AMFA!

Over 100 cards and climbing for the AGW!

Maybe there is a future for workers in this industry after all!

 

[Superside]

Just a reminder, Amfa has claimed ...

Amfa is inflating the numbers to keep the organizers motivated, anyone with common sense understands that a good portion of the cards are expiring sooner than you are led to believe. Many comments have been made in the last 30 days by key organizers at several stations.....

I can't remember who said this but it bares repeating;

AMFA IS NOT A THREAT... AMFA IS NOT A THREAT.... AMFA IS NOT A THREAT....
...YOU'RE GETTING VERY SLEEPY, VERY SLEEPY.

 

[TeamTWU]

I can't remember who said this but it bares repeating;

AMFA IS NOT A THREAT... AMFA IS NOT A THREAT.... AMFA IS NOT A THREAT....
...YOU'RE GETTING VERY SLEEPY, VERY SLEEPY.




Superside...I believe it was NWA management during outsourcing meetings with AMFA.

Have a great New Year!

 

[Superside]

I can't remember who said this but it bares repeating;

AMFA IS NOT A THREAT... AMFA IS NOT A THREAT.... AMFA IS NOT A THREAT....
...YOU'RE GETTING VERY SLEEPY, VERY SLEEPY.




Superside...I believe it was NWA management during outsourcing meetings with AMFA.

Have a great New Year!

OK, Smart Ass Answer this one.
What do Company Negotiators see when they sit at the table with TWU negotiators?
I'll save you some brain cells and answer it for you.
An International Union Leadership that doesn't hesitate to sell out its Membership!
And has been selling us out for 20 years!

 

[Rusty]

Come on guys lets give Cio a break here, he is obviously not very bright because he likes the TWU. Whenever I ask those people that have not signed a card if they like the TWU, they get a funny look on their face and squirm around. My point is Cio is just a cultist; he does what he does and has no idea why except that he receives a pay check from the TWU. I think it is around 400$ a month maybe he could expand a bit. By the way Cio did you guys vote to keep your pay the same or did you take any shared sacrifice on your union pay??? From what I have heard the local 514 officers decided they should not take any pay cut because they are special and have special needs and wants.


The TWU is setup so that if they cut everything except the base pay then the dues paid to the national and local will stay as high as possible. Thus loss of work rules, loss of vacation, loss of holiday pay, loss of sick time, and so on and so on and so on and on and so freakin on!!!

 

[TeamTWU]

OK, Smart Ass Answer this one.

Do we really need language like this? Well Super, I'm part of the membership you mention and do not feel sold out. Your opinion means little to me personally and you do not speak for the majority @ AA. Are you furloughed? Just a question, I already know the answer. Point being you could be unemployed altogether, but then again then who would complain to? George Bush?