Observers at AMFA negotiations

[Chuck Schalk]

Our side continues to be committed and is making a concerted effort to reach an agreement that addresses the concerns of our members and the Company. Our Committee would like to thank the observers that took the time to attend.
Sincerely,
Your Negotiating Committee- AMFA Southwest Airlines
Upcoming Negotiation Date - Dallas
January: 24-25
February: 12-13 and 27-28
March: 7-8 and 26-27

Imagine observers at negotiations, what a concept. Everytime I motioned for observers at TWU negotiations I got hissed at and denied.
AMFA promotes observers to attend and look over their shoulder. That is what we call transparency people!!!!

no one else offered this!

For the love of our career, sign an AMFA card of an organization that will really make the effort to make our class and craft a career again

 

[1AA]

The company and the TWU are pissing on us.
The company contributes 14% to the pilots 401K without a single penny coming
from any pilots pocket. We have a measly 5.5% and we have to match it to get it.
The TWU allowed this to happen. This is not fighting like hell. This is screwing over the membership. Sign a friggin card and lets get rid of the TWU once and for all.
So much for the ME TOO clause.

14% vs 5.5% which one would you favor?

 

[Rogallo]

Hijacking the thread on the second post.

C'mon dude!!

 

[1AA]

Hijacking the thread on the second post.

C'mon dude!!

Sorry about that. my bad.

 

[Kev3188]

For the next negotiating session (or related), you should all show up anyway. Just because they say you can't doesn't mean you should listen... After all, they work for you, right?

And if it's not successful, then it's all the more evidence- not that you need any- that the TWU ATD's sturcture is not in the membership's best interest.

 

[TWU informer]

You WILL NOT be allowed to witness the deal cutting of the company union....period!

 

[swamt]

Our side continues to be committed and is making a concerted effort to reach an agreement that addresses the concerns of our members and the Company. Our Committee would like to thank the observers that took the time to attend.
Sincerely,
Your Negotiating Committee- AMFA Southwest Airlines
Upcoming Negotiation Date - Dallas
January: 24-25
February: 12-13 and 27-28
March: 7-8 and 26-27

Imagine observers at negotiations, what a concept. Everytime I motioned for observers at TWU negotiations I got hissed at and denied.
AMFA promotes observers to attend and look over their shoulder. That is what we call transparency people!!!!

no one else offered this!

For the love of our career, sign an AMFA card of an organization that will really make the effort to make our class and craft a career again

Chuck, I will say we are much, much more informed with AMFA. With observers attending nego's, now the nego committee has help to spread the updates from nego's. Another thing that having observers does is remove the rumors and false information. It also keeps the nego team in the public eye (per say) so you don't get the "private deals done behind closed doors" like the teamsters were doing while they were here and at CAL.
In case some of you do not know, this is how it works. AMFA and SWA set nego dates. Aprox one week or within a few days of nego's AMFA will post for observers to attend. Unfortuantly AMFA has to limit the number of observers due to the high turn out to observe. AMFA then draws for the selected individuals to attend. We have observers come in from around the system to attend. This way the word gets spread alot easier thru-out the system. Some times, with observers, the word is already out before the nego team get's back to their respective cities to give their members an update. Overall a much, much better system than I have seen in my 26 years in aviation. It really controls all the rumors we use to hear that spread like wild fires with the teamsters "behind closed door deals". Like I have said before, you guys will be alot happier with all the paticipation required as well as all the information that will be readilly available to all the members. Good luck.

 

[lineguy43]

Chuck, I will say we are much, much more informed with AMFA. With observers attending nego's, now the nego committee has help to spread the updates from nego's. Another thing that having observers does is remove the rumors and false information. It also keeps the nego team in the public eye (per say) so you don't get the "private deals done behind closed doors" like the teamsters were doing while they were here and at CAL.
In case some of you do not know, this is how it works. AMFA and SWA set nego dates. Aprox one week or within a few days of nego's AMFA will post for observers to attend. Unfortuantly AMFA has to limit the number of observers due to the high turn out to observe. AMFA then draws for the selected individuals to attend. We have observers come in from around the system to attend. This way the word gets spread alot easier thru-out the system. Some times, with observers, the word is already out before the nego team get's back to their respective cities to give their members an update. Overall a much, much better system than I have seen in my 26 years in aviation. It really controls all the rumors we use to hear that spread like wild fires with the teamsters "behind closed door deals". Like I have said before, you guys will be alot happier with all the paticipation required as well as all the information that will be readilly available to all the members. Good luck.

Tell you what SWAMT...NWA hated that when AMFA came in.. They absolutely did not want observers, add to that NW could not process how to do business with AMFA as well they were so used to the lapdog iam for all the ground workers and the reamsters in the F/A ranks..ALPA was the only quasi militant union on the property. AMFA was 100% militant and NW on our first negotiations they had no choice we AMT's had the company over a barrel. Thats when we raised the bar on the industry. But NW was never going to allow themselves to be caught in that position again. Of course AMFA got complacent as well ..Concentrating more on getting new membership at other airlines and not paying attention to what NW was doing in plotting to bust the union. AMFA learned at a major cost to a lot of us. But if they can be resurrected to become that union we AMT's have been fighting for in the end then I guess our demise wasn't in vain...

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Tell you what SWAMT...NWA hated that when AMFA came in.. They absolutely did not want observers.
AMFA was 100% militant and NW on our first negotiations had no choice we AMT's had the company over a barrel. Thats when we raised the bar on the industry. But NW was never going to allow themselves to be caught in that position again.

Of course AMFA got complacent as well ..Concentrating more on getting new membership at other airlines and not paying attention to what NW was doing in plotting to bust the union. AMFA learned at a major cost to a lot of us. But if they can be resurrected to become that union we AMT's have been fighting for in the end then I guess our demise wasn't in vain...

Lineguy43

I am not sure if you remember that AMFA National does not do most of the Organizing, that is done by the memebers of the Company that wants AMFA to represent them.

Didn't NWA mechanics have Local 33 in MSP as the largest Local and wouldn't the Officers that you guys elected
to that Local as well as regional reps working for NWA have the responsiblity of watching what went on at NWA.

How can you say that AMFA Natl. didn't watch, they were overseeing all the carriers they represented.

"YES" it is true that NWA through their fight raised the bar as far as wages. "Thanks for that".

Now the TWU has moved that bar so far down we are the bottom of the spectrum here at AA.

Didn't YOU ( THE MEMBERSHIP ) take a strike Vote and Tell AMFA what to do?
So Now you blame them, come on man...
"YES" AMFA it self did make some mistakes I agree but each carrier and the Elected officials have and had a responsibility to the memebership.

Do you feel it was a waste for you to go to battle with NWA? At least there you had that choice here the
TWU Intl. just makes a deal and we are stuck with that. Whe Don V. was asked out in LAx why "NO SNAP BACK CLAUSE" His responce was "we at the Intl. did not feel it was in the best interest of AA at this time" How do you like that?

Many including myself were involved with the strike against Eastern, and even though I lost my job there I am and always will be proud that I stood together with my Union brothers and fought for what we believed at that time.
Future contract no matter who ends up as our UNION, here at AA will have to start from there to get back all that the TWU Negotiated away, Fighting like Hell.

When you standup for what you beleive in life and still loose you still can hold YOUR Head High knowing that YOU made a choice and did not just run away to fight another day as the TWU does here at AA.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Lineguy43

I was a card carrying member assoc. member as well as an organizer while at LAx and I was allowed to sit in while they negotiated wwith the company, even though I was working for AA at the time. I was not the only AA mechanic that did that.

Our Officers of the locals NOW don't even get to do that. They sit in a side room and wait for the Intl officers to come tell them what was said and what articles they want the Boards to discuss and get back with them.

Lets HOPE THAT the T-Town guys realize this and sign cards so we can here at AA sit in as observers as AMFA negotiates our next contract.

 

[lineguy43]

Lineguy43

I am not sure if you remember that AMFA National does not do most of the Organizing, that is done by the memebers of the Company that wants AMFA to represent them.

Didn't NWA mechanics have Local 33 in MSP as the largest Local and wouldn't the Officers that you guys elected
to that Local as well as regional reps working for NWA have the responsiblity of watching what went on at NWA.

How can you say that AMFA Natl. didn't watch, they were overseeing all the carriers they represented.

"YES" it is true that NWA through their fight raised the bar as far as wages. "Thanks for that".

Now the TWU has moved that bar so far down we are the bottom of the spectrum here at AA.

Didn't YOU ( THE MEMBERSHIP ) take a strike Vote and Tell AMFA what to do?
So Now you blame them, come on man...
"YES" AMFA it self did make some mistakes I agree but each carrier and the Elected officials have and had a responsibility to the memebership.

Do you feel it was a waste for you to go to battle with NWA? At least there you had that choice here the
TWU Intl. just makes a deal and we are stuck with that. Whe Don V. was asked out in LAx why "NO SNAP BACK CLAUSE" His responce was "we at the Intl. did not feel it was in the best interest of AA at this time" How do you like that?

Many including myself were involved with the strike against Eastern, and even though I lost my job there I am and always will be proud that I stood together with my Union brothers and fought for what we believed at that time.
Future contract no matter who ends up as our UNION, here at AA will have to start from there to get back all that the TWU Negotiated away, Fighting like Hell.

When you standup for what you beleive in life and still loose you still can hold YOUR Head High knowing that YOU made a choice and did not just run away to fight another day as the TWU does here at AA.

Yes I agree but apparently no one saw or paid attention to NW recruiting scabs for over a yr and a half. Don't forget we at NWA were pretty much the first major airline AMFA had. Yes we took a strike vote and we kept it when it came down to it..But some of the problems I had with the whole thing was AMFA at that time promoted the CHAOS form of striking which personally I wish AMFA had lived up too. It would have crippled NW which in that case of NW they had scabs in the wings they would have forced a lockout which would have allowed most all of us to collect unemployment and kept some of the weaker ones from crossing the line. But Dell Femine went with a traditional strike against NW thinking we would shut them down..Which might have happened had NW not spent millions and had the Bush administration and the FAA on their side against us. Like I said a lot of mistakes and the national has to take its lumps on that failure as well. But no I do not regret fighting NW even though I lost almost 20 years there.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Yes I agree but apparently no one saw or paid attention to NW recruiting scabs for over a yr and a half. Don't forget we at NWA were pretty much the first major airline AMFA had. Yes we took a strike vote and we kept it when it came down to it..But some of the problems I had with the whole thing was AMFA at that time promoted the CHAOS form of striking which personally I wish AMFA had lived up too. It would have crippled NW which in that case of NW they had scabs in the wings they would have forced a lockout which would have allowed most all of us to collect unemployment and kept some of the weaker ones from crossing the line. But Dell Femine went with a traditional strike against NW thinking we would shut them down..Which might have happened had NW not spent millions and had the Bush administration and the FAA on their side against us. Like I said a lot of mistakes and the national has to take its lumps on that failure as well. But no I do not regret fighting NW even though I lost almost 20 years there.

Lineguy43

Eastern as well hired scabs and they operated for several yrs until they shut down.

It has always been that way the airline will do what ever it takes to continue operation.
There will always be guys who will cross a picket line as well.

i am just so Glad I am at AA which wouldn't be allowed to strike. Because I believe
MANY Here at AA would cross and have no guilt about doing it.

Its just a shame that NWA pilots crossed as well as the stews. Glad they all got theirs in the end. I had many Eastern Pals who also walked the NWA picket line after walking at Eastern as well. I am in airline #5, so I know how it feels to have airlines all shut down and have nothing to show for 34 yrs of aviation maintenance

 

[Bob Owens]

Tell you what SWAMT...NWA hated that when AMFA came in.. They absolutely did not want observers, add to that NW could not process how to do business with AMFA as well they were so used to the lapdog iam for all the ground workers and the reamsters in the F/A ranks..ALPA was the only quasi militant union on the property. AMFA was 100% militant and NW on our first negotiations they had no choice we AMT's had the company over a barrel. Thats when we raised the bar on the industry. But NW was never going to allow themselves to be caught in that position again. Of course AMFA got complacent as well ..Concentrating more on getting new membership at other airlines and not paying attention to what NW was doing in plotting to bust the union. AMFA learned at a major cost to a lot of us. But if they can be resurrected to become that union we AMT's have been fighting for in the end then I guess our demise wasn't in vain...

And what would AMFA or any other union have done? The fact is 9-11 changed the landscape, thousands of mechanics were on the street and the economy was in recession. What NWA did in 2005 would be much harder to accomplish in 2013.

 

[swamt]

And what would AMFA or any other union have done? The fact is 9-11 changed the landscape, thousands of mechanics were on the street and the economy was in recession. What NWA did in 2005 would be much harder to accomplish in 2013.

Bob I agree. However, I will still say, as well as AMFA has admitted and learned from, that AMFA did in fact wait too long to start the strike. They let the co get too prepared. AMFA should have striked the moment they found out the co was bringing in and training scabs if not sooner. Still not sure if the final outcome would have been any different. I'm sure the co had contract maint co's already to go on a moments notice if needed. It's very clear now what the entire game plan was back then. It was vital that NWA do what ever was needed to get rid of the mechanics union in order to to merge with Delta to maintain a unionless mechanics ranks at Delta after merger complete, and they were successfull. The day that Delta and NWA both filed the very same day for BK I posted on this forum that they would merge together. But getting back to your post, I do agree that I don't think any union would have been able to anything different or better at NWA with the exact same situation givin to them. Except I will say that if the TWU was there they would have caved and "agreed" to everything the company wanted plain and simple...