American Offers Pay for Performance

[MCI transplant]

Sooper Dooper Secret messgae to 1AA...unionism no longer means anything to this country, my friend. Have you been to Detroit lately? Listened to the UAW/GM negotiations? The pilots and the flight attendants need to move past their beef with executive compensation and wake-up to the twenty-first century economic realities. Legacy airlines can not compete in today's marketplace without competitive labor costs.

<_< ----- What do you conceder "competitive labor costs"? Your not going to get illegals to sign off Aircraft here, as much as you'd like to! And if our Unions had any balls, they wouldn't do business in this country if they tried!!!! :angry: And as I see it AA's not going to pull the plug on third party work and outsource all their maintenance either! They've come too far with it for that! They know the potential for profit it has! And their ego's would be destroyed because they'd be saying that their management decisions were it fact a mistake!!!!------- NO! can't do that!

 

[Bob Owens]

I like your statement Ken.. "the union will try to present the union's idea on non-traditional compensation".. never a truer word said.

At ORD we have heard that its a 24 to 36 month extension. The non traditional part sounds as though its going to be tied to performance, like amount of MEL's cleared, OTS aircraft back in service time and things of that nature, with some minimum acceptable level and then anything above that tied to a dollar(or more likely cents) amount added into our base pay rate..

Should make for good PR. If the mechanic writes up defects his station performance as measured by the company will go down, along with his paycheck, if on the other hand he whips MELS and turns a blind eye to defects he can feed his family. That should sell a lot of tickets.

 

[Bob Owens]

well, 250,000,000/75,000 active non-managment employees is around $3,333.00 per employee before taxes, being taxed at the higher rate, would end up being around $2200.

I could've used it.

 

[FA Mikey]

No matter the amount or gesture, you still would have found fault in it and complained.

 

[MCI transplant]

Should make for good PR. If the mechanic writes up defects his station performance as measured by the company will go down, along with his paycheck, if on the other hand he whips MELS and turns a blind eye to defects he can feed his family. That should sell a lot of tickets.

<_< ------- So now they want us to do "piece work"? I wonder if they'll pay the inspectors by the number of write-up's they make? Or the number of things they buy-off? :unsure: Or a crew chief by the number of mechanics he assigns? :unsure: :down:

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

<_< ------- So now they want us to do "piece work"? I wonder if they'll pay the inspectors by the number of write-up's they make? Or the number of things they buy-off? :unsure: Or a crew chief by the number of mechanics he assigns? :unsure: :down:

You could be on to something. AA wants to hand pick their Crew Chiefs. They pick a company man or a professional AMT can make a difference.

 

[FWAAA]

<_< -------- O.K. FWAAA! If the" Executive Bonus" would have gone back to the membership, what would that number be?---

Except for the erroneous tax info, AirLUVer's estimate looks reasonable.

A better question would be: If the 35 million non-management options (currently worth $595 million of profit: 22-5=17 times 35 million= $595 million) had not been given to the rank and file, how much cash could AA have raised for the corporate coffers? B)

AirLUVer: Bonuses are not taxed at a higher rate, withholdings are at a higher rate. When you file your tax return, bonuses are taxed at whatever marginal rate your last dollar of earnings were taxed at.

 

[Bob Owens]

A better question would be: If the 35 million non-management options (currently worth $595 million of profit: 22-5=17 times 35 million= $595 million) had not been given to the rank and file, how much cash could AA have raised for the corporate coffers? B)

According to the company they would have went BK. According to Jim Little they would have liquidated the company.

 

[FWAAA]

According to the company they would have went BK. According to Jim Little they would have liquidated the company.

Well, we both know that he's a liar. And, from the sounds of it, a pretty stupid liar.

Had AA filed for Ch 11, odds are the A300s and many of the MD-80s would have been dumped. Major airframe overhaul would have been trimmed and sent overseas ala UAL. And the pilots would have taken a major pension haircut. Line maintenance in major cities? Probably very little change from the status quo.

 

[Bob Owens]

Well, we both know that he's a liar. And, from the sounds of it, a pretty stupid liar.

Had AA filed for Ch 11, odds are the A300s and many of the MD-80s would have been dumped. Major airframe overhaul would have been trimmed and sent overseas ala UAL. And the pilots would have taken a major pension haircut. Line maintenance in major cities? Probably very little change from the status quo.

Well I think both were liars. Dump the A300s and MD80s? What would they use in place of them? Dump OH? Why, AAs overhaul costs were low to start with because of OSMs, eliminating in house OH would have been a disaster, while it may lower wage expense it doesnt eliminate maintenance costs, it just shifts them and gives the company less control over not only the cost but the quality as well. If AA had dumped their fleet into an already saturated supply for MRO services the prices the MRO charged would rise dramatically. Believe it or not UAL still does a considerable amount of OH and they also contract in work like AA is doing. How much money has UAL actually saved by outsourcing and how to those costs compare with AA?

 

[The Goose]

Well I think both were liars. Dump the A300s and MD80s? What would they use in place of them? Dump OH? Why, AAs overhaul costs were low to start with because of OSMs, eliminating in house OH would have been a disaster, while it may lower wage expense it doesnt eliminate maintenance costs, it just shifts them and gives the company less control over not only the cost but the quality as well. If AA had dumped their fleet into an already saturated supply for MRO services the prices the MRO charged would rise dramatically. Believe it or not UAL still does a considerable amount of OH and they also contract in work like AA is doing. How much money has UAL actually saved by outsourcing and how to those costs compare with AA?

Bob, you seem to have forgotten.

AA's so-called management will spend a million dollars to "save" one dollar. They'll spend millions more than that to ensure we won't recoup a thing we gave up.

Maybe the threat (?) from FL might build a fire under their collective a$$.

 

[FWAAA]

Well I think both were liars. Dump the A300s and MD80s? What would they use in place of them? Dump OH? Why, AAs overhaul costs were low to start with because of OSMs, eliminating in house OH would have been a disaster, while it may lower wage expense it doesnt eliminate maintenance costs, it just shifts them and gives the company less control over not only the cost but the quality as well. If AA had dumped their fleet into an already saturated supply for MRO services the prices the MRO charged would rise dramatically. Believe it or not UAL still does a considerable amount of OH and they also contract in work like AA is doing. How much money has UAL actually saved by outsourcing and how to those costs compare with AA?

I agree with much of what you say. AA's overall costs may very well be lower because of its overhaul operations. But that doesn't mean that management wouldn't have followed that herd and closed TUL and MCI. Laid off thousands of employees at those bases.

On the subject of filing for Ch 11 - why do you think the company lied? US, UA, NW and DL all filed for Ch 11. Had the concessions not been deemed accepted (I realize many don't think they were approved by vote), do you really think AA would not have filed? If so, why not?

About UAL - I agee that it probably isn't saving as much as everyone had hoped by outsourcing all heavy airframe overhaul. Same with its new Defined Contribution retirement plans - AA's DB plans may still be cheaper for AA.

About the A300s and MD-80s? Grounded and replaced with nothing. AA would likely have shrunk even more than it did. In retrospect, given $2.00/gal+ jet fuel for the last two years, dumping them might have been a good idea. Of course, had the lessors agreed, maybe AA would have kept them for much smaller lease payments.

 

[MCI transplant]

I agree with much of what you say. AA's overall costs may very well be lower because of its overhaul operations. But that doesn't mean that management wouldn't have followed that herd and closed TUL and MCI. Laid off thousands of employees at those bases.

On the subject of filing for Ch 11 - why do you think the company lied? US, UA, NW and DL all filed for Ch 11. Had the concessions not been deemed accepted (I realize many don't think they were approved by vote), do you really think AA would not have filed? If so, why not?

About UAL - I agee that it probably isn't saving as much as everyone had hoped by outsourcing all heavy airframe overhaul. Same with its new Defined Contribution retirement plans - AA's DB plans may still be cheaper for AA.

About the A300s and MD-80s? Grounded and replaced with nothing. AA would likely have shrunk even more than it did. In retrospect, given $2.00/gal+ jet fuel for the last two years, dumping them might have been a good idea. Of course, had the lessors agreed, maybe AA would have kept them for much smaller lease payments.

<_< ------ We've seen how the Company keeps it's word! "Shared Sacrifice!" "Work together, Win together!" It seems they've got a problem telling the truth! :angry: Friend," actions speak louder than words!" And we've seen them in action!!!! :down: We've stepped up to the plate, and saved the Company from "bankruptcy" only to see the executives of this same Company enrich themselves at our expense! Now they're saying "Trust Me" again!!! ? :huh: :down:

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

<_< ------ We've seen how the Company keeps it's word! "Shared Sacrifice!" "Work together, Win together!" It seems they've got a problem telling the truth! :angry: Friend," actions speak louder than words!" And we've seen them in action!!!! :down: We've stepped up to the plate, and saved the Company from "bankruptcy" only to see the executives of this same Company enrich themselves at our expense! Now they're saying "Trust Me" again!!! :huh: :down:

"Trust Me Again"?

NEVER!

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

Well, we both know that he's a liar. And, from the sounds of it, a pretty stupid liar.

Had AA filed for Ch 11, odds are the A300s and many of the MD-80s would have been dumped. Major airframe overhaul would have been trimmed and sent overseas ala UAL. And the pilots would have taken a major pension haircut. Line maintenance in major cities? Probably very little change from the status quo.

When are you going to face the fact that AMR is making money off its overhaul . If you want to believe its not making money then you can bet your arse its cheaper to do it in house
If that wasnt the case it would have been gone years ago
FACT