American Offers Pay for Performance

[Ken MacTiernan]

I like your statement Ken.. "the union will try to present the union's idea on non-traditional compensation".. never a truer word said.

At ORD we have heard that its a 24 to 36 month extension. The non traditional part sounds as though its going to be tied to performance, like amount of MEL's cleared, OTS aircraft back in service time and things of that nature, with some minimum acceptable level and then anything above that tied to a dollar(or more likely cents) amount added into our base pay rate..

Perhaps when an aircraft is experiencing a mechanical delay their "non-traditional compensation" format can devise "non-traditional maintenance corrective actions"?

I have a slogan the twu can use, "LET GO OF MY CONCESSIONS!"

Or

"LET MY CONCESSIONS GO!"

 

[FWAAA]

The fact is "everything back and then some" is more than reasonable, the company can afford it. Sure people like FWAA would love to see our expectations lowered because it means more profits for the shareholders.

AA can "afford" it? We must get different profit and loss statements.

Couldn't care less about your "expectations" and have no desire to lower them or raise them. Merely predicting the way the chips will fall. Besides, my foolish gamble on AMR stock paid off by 2005. Currently own a nominal amount, so increased profits or bankruptcy won't affect me.

Its not unreasonable for us to expect everything back that we gave up to prevent BK. We had all this stuff before so there is no reason why we shouldnt expect it again, we still make the same sacrifices. If the company claims they cant afford it they are lying, the fact is we have around 30% fewer employees with around the same revenue.

I'd agree with you if the annual net profits were at least $1.62 billion. When that happens, AA can "afford it." Hasn't happened yet.

The company claimed they needed to reduce labor costs by 25%, Well they did that initially by cutting our compensation by 25%, then they went and eliminated another 30% of the workforce, thus lowering costs well beyond the 25% that was needed at that time of crisis. Well the crisis is over, if they give us everything back their costs are still 30%, well beyond the 25% they claimed they needed, than they used to be because there is 30% less employees..

Your numbers are suspect. Actually, Carty demanded annual wage and benefit savings of $1.8 billion; $1.62 billion from the represented workgroups and the other $180 million from management, support staff and agents.

Total AA (not AMR) wages and benefits were $7.954 billion in 2002. In 2004, after the phased in cuts had taken effect, AA's total wage and benefits cost $6.224 billion. That's $1.730 billion less, which looks a lot like the $1.8 billion demanded in early 2003. After giving effect to the 1.5% raises in May, 2004, that's almost exactly the $1.8 billion of wage and benefit cuts.

Strong negotiations require that you first understand the facts. Otherwise your own union will have you for lunch. Not to mention what AA will do to you.

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

Total AA (not AMR) wages and benefits were $7.954 billion in 2002. In 2004, after the phased in cuts had taken effect, AA's total wage and benefits cost $6.224 billion. That's $1.730 billion less, which looks a lot like the $1.8 billion demanded in early 2003. After giving effect to the 1.5% raises in May, 2004, that's almost exactly the $1.8 billion of wage and benefit cuts.

Strong negotiations require that you first understand the facts. Otherwise your own union will have you for lunch. Not to mention what AA will do to you.

The concession package adds up but where is all the money going from the 30% of the workforce on lay off.

 

[The Goose]

The concession package adds up but where is all the money going from the 30% of the workforce on lay off.

AMR's cash position seems to be growing by $500,000,000 per quarter and executive bonuses come from the stockholders.

 

[MCDP]

The concession package adds up but where is all the money going from the 30% of the workforce on lay off.

Well that's easy. Someone has to subsidize the low fares. If the people on layoff have recall rights, that is exactly what they are doing. They are allowing the company to use their paycheck interest free.

 

[FWAAA]

The concession package adds up but where is all the money going from the 30% of the workforce on lay off.

One place the money is going is to the oil companies - the 2006 fuel bill was more than $3 billion more than in 2003. More than doubled. Fare increases have tried to keep up, but thanks to the nonunion and scab outfits, it's seemingly impossible to raise them far enough.

Typed my post from the LAX Flagship Lounge last night before my flight. When I got off the plane this morning, I realized that I had screwed up.

The $1.62 billion (concessions from represented workgroups) came from wage and benefit cuts (incl work rule changes) AND furloughs. So to restore the concessions to the currently-active employees won't take all of that $1.62 billion per year - but it will take a significant fraction of it.

Here's a stupid question - has The Worthless Union figured out how much it would take to restore the concessions to its members?*

*Even if the TWU has calculated the number, it probably wouldn't tell you guys.

 

[MCI transplant]

One place the money is going is to the oil companies - the 2006 fuel bill was more than $3 billion more than in 2003. More than doubled. Fare increases have tried to keep up, but thanks to the nonunion and scab outfits, it's seemingly impossible to raise them far enough.

Typed my post from the LAX Flagship Lounge last night before my flight. When I got off the plane this morning, I realized that I had screwed up.

The $1.62 billion (concessions from represented workgroups) came from wage and benefit cuts (incl work rule changes) AND furloughs. So to restore the concessions to the currently-active employees won't take all of that $1.62 billion per year - but it will take a significant fraction of it.

Here's a stupid question - has The Worthless Union figured out how much it would take to restore the concessions to its members?*

*Even if the TWU has calculated the number, it probably wouldn't tell you guys.

<_< -------- O.K. FWAAA! If the" Executive Bonus" would have gone back to the membership, what would that number be?---

 

[AirLUVer]

<_< -------- O.K. FWAAA! If the" Executive Bonus" would have gone back to the membership, what would that number be?---

well, 250,000,000/75,000 active non-managment employees is around $3,333.00 per employee before taxes, being taxed at the higher rate, would end up being around $2200.

 

[FA Mikey]

UAW decides to forgo raises for the next 4 years and in exchange take a lump sum bonus based on the company's performance. Extremely likely that Chrysler and Ford workers will get the same deal. Looks like other union work groups are making the changes necessary to get the most for there workers. Time to make changes from the 19th century union ideals and move in to the 21st century.

 

[LGA Fleet Service]

American Gives Pilots Contract Proposal


DALLAS - American Airlines Inc. presented its pilots' union with a contract proposal Tuesday that wouldn't raise the rates of pay for pilots, but would let them increase their income by flying more hours.


"We're not going to pay you more, but we will allow you to work more." :blink:

 

[The Goose]

American Gives Pilots Contract Proposal
DALLAS - American Airlines Inc. presented its pilots' union with a contract proposal Tuesday that wouldn't raise the rates of pay for pilots, but would let them increase their income by flying more hours.
"We're not going to pay you more, but we will allow you to work more." :blink:

Wasn't that nice of them? The pilots get to work overtime if they desire.

I read the whole article somewhere else - the pilots said they'd have a response by today.

I like that. It doesn't take them 2 weeks to tell the company to go to hell.

 

[uvagal]

Wasn't that nice of them? The pilots get to work overtime if they desire.

I read the whole article somewhere else - the pilots said they'd have a response by today.

I like that. It doesn't take them 2 weeks to tell the company to go to hell.

In what other industry is 40 some-odd hours of work per month considered normal? Overtime? Hardly! I, too, look forward to reading the APA's response- at the very least, it will show that they are finally engaging with management and showing a little commitment to the process. It seems to me that the union has been hiding behind their "survey," all the while looking for some justification for their outrageous proposals.

 

[uvagal]

Hey Newbie you need to do your homework before making humorous posts like this.

The TWU is not a leader unless you consider concessionary contracts to be industry leading.
The TWU is a follower and at times jumps on the band wagon. They are a total disgrace to what unionism means in this country. The TWU is a company sellout union and is in bed with arrogant airline management. Both the TWU and AA slapped us in the face after we accepted the draconian concessionary contract that we are still working under and now the TWU and AA are entertaining the thought of shoving it up our rears for another two years for some ridiculous compensation package that as of yet no one knows the exact details. The pilots union was approached with a possible extension and they told them to go shove it. The pilots and flight attendants unions placed full page ads in papers nation wide to express their disgust with the executive compensation payouts. What did the TWU do at the same time? They placed a full page ad in the Tulsa World showing how the TWU and AA are working together. Please do us a favor and go back where you came from. Open your eyes and ears and educate yourself before you post comments like this. That is unless you are a TWU lackey.

Sooper Dooper Secret messgae to 1AA...unionism no longer means anything to this country, my friend. Have you been to Detroit lately? Listened to the UAW/GM negotiations? The pilots and the flight attendants need to move past their beef with executive compensation and wake-up to the twenty-first century economic realities. Legacy airlines can not compete in today's marketplace without competitive labor costs.

 

[Hopeful]

American Gives Pilots Contract Proposal
DALLAS - American Airlines Inc. presented its pilots' union with a contract proposal Tuesday that wouldn't raise the rates of pay for pilots, but would let them increase their income by flying more hours.
"We're not going to pay you more, but we will allow you to work more." :blink:

Well, pilots do want to fly past the age of 60......maybe to 62 or 65.....that would certainly add up to more hours!

 

[TWU-GOTTA-GO]

Sooper Dooper Secret messgae to 1AA...unionism no longer means anything to this country, my friend. Have you been to Detroit lately? Listened to the UAW/GM negotiations? The pilots and the flight attendants need to move past their beef with executive compensation and wake-up to the twenty-first century economic realities. Legacy airlines can not compete in today's marketplace without competitive labor costs.

This crap sounds like something the twu would say. :down:

Jimmy Little is that you?