American management and unions meet about possible merger

[LGA Fleet Service]

The article indicates they've met on a regular basis for the past year to discuss consolidation,I wouldn't read too much into that.

The company probably asked the unions what it would take to get them to sign off on any potential merge, the unions answered and the meeting adjourned.


I don't want to see a merge, I want organic growth.

The only 'Big Red' I want to see is in the chewing gum rack at the news stand.

 

[Skymess]

The article indicates they've met on a regular basis for the past year to discuss consolidation,I wouldn't read too much into that.

The company probably asked the unions what it would take to get them to sign off on any potential merge, the unions answered and the meeting adjourned.


I don't want to see a merge, I want organic growth.

The only 'Big Red' I want to see is in the chewing gum rack at the news stand.

I have no doubts you're right. Kind of coincides with that little seniority agreement with the omnibus bill that they just happened to let slip by. Uh-huh.

Thanks again, for nothing.

 

[AAviator]

Do you think the meeting was called by labor or management? Given the proximity of the timing to the rumored DL/NW announcement and the new concept of "pre-ratification" of mergers by labor, it wouldn't surprise me to learn that this meeting was called by AA's various labor groups as a "me too" reminder.

This could be an interesting area for value exchange in the next round of contracts.

http://www.alliedpilots.org/Public/PublicR...ine/hotline.asp

UNIONS MEET WITH MANAGEMENT REGARDING INDUSTRY CONSOLIDATION:
On Wednesday, the APA, APFA and TWU leadership met with management to discuss the airline industry’s current drive toward consolidation. Secretary-Treasurer Captain Bill Haug and I represented APA at this meeting, which included Chief Executive Officer Gerard Arpey and Chief Financial Officer Tom Horton. The meeting took place at the request of one of the other labor groups.
Management has not divulged to APA any information concerning specific merger activity involving our airline, but spoke in general terms about industry consolidation. We clearly communicated our concern about the effect that mergers have on employees and that APA remains committed to representing your best interests in every contingency, including any merger and acquisition activity on the part of our airline. We are continuing our discussions with a wide variety of expert advisors and will continue to be proactive to ensure we are prepared to defend the careers of all American Airlines pilots in the event our airline becomes an active player in consolidation.

 

[nbmcg01]

I have no doubts you're right. Kind of coincides with that little seniority agreement with the omnibus bill that they just happened to let slip by. Uh-huh.

Thanks again, for nothing.

Not to worry Chris. The former RENO and TWA f/as will still be left at the bottom (ironic since it was one of our "own" that got the ball rolling). The agreement doesn't say anything about DOH. It only states that there be discussions and that the provisions of the Allegheny-Mohawk be followed. It is a shame that mock runs were never done and resented to the AA membership re: RENO and TWA. Any union worth their dues would also negotiate a no furlough clause to protect current members.

 

[enough already]

Any union worth their dues would also negotiate a no furlough clause to protect current members.

Ummm yeah. There's a mouth full. It would be nice if we had one of those!

 

[The Goose]

Based on a fleet comparison, Continental would be the best fit. Add in from the twu side that they would finally get to "mis"represent Continental's rampers after spending millions of our dues money just to lose elections time and time again, I'm sure they would buy off on that one.

The TWU - oops, I'm sorry - Jim (Chicken) Little will buy off on anything that keeps his minions and himself in power and the dues flowing.

The only union the company is concerned with is the pilots as they have the capacity to cause the most damage to the company. The mechs and FAs can be farmed outor scabbed fast enough to offset any problemsthey may cause.

 

[Connected1]

The meeting took place at the request of one of the other labor groups.

Nice find. I'm starting to think that I know something about this business.

 

[Winglet]

Arpey and company have so poisoned the well with the APA, he can expect zero cooperation with the pilots unless he immediately stops sand-bagging the negotiations and agrees to a contract BEFORE any serious discussions on mergers start.

AA and UAL -- no way. Present management has made UAL a boat anchor . . . or as someone else said, the ugly fat chick at the party that NOBODY wants to dance with. Tilton's only idea for "fixing" the company is to palm it off on some dumb schmuck, then take his blood money and run. Now, if he and his grossly overpaid execs actually fixed the company, it'd be worth something.

AA and CAL -- Possible. The 787 thing is a non-issue. AA can get them about as soon as they want 'em, anyway. Pretty significant seniority integration challenges with the pilots. AA management's record on mergers is abysmal and it's the AA employees who take the shaft. Consequently they're pretty gun-shy.

 

[operaations]

Winglet.

You are %100 positive that it is Arpey and Management that are sand Bagging.

Wasnt the APA sandbagging a while back when they kept cancelling meetings with the Company. I bet they are both stalling trying to see who blinks first.

The only Fact we have is that there are two work Groups with Huge Egos who each think they are more important than anyone else. AMR Execs and APA leadership...........(it will be a long time before either budge)

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Winglet.

You are %100 positive that it is Arpey and Management that are sand Bagging.

Wasnt the APA sandbagging a while back when they kept cancelling meetings with the Company. I bet they are both stalling trying to see who blinks first.

The only Fact we have is that there are two work Groups with Huge Egos who each think they are more important than anyone else. AMR Execs and APA leadership...........(it will be a long time before either budge)

=================================================================

Operations,
For the most part, I agree with you,......................But assuming DL/NW make an "announcement" this coming weak, it VERY WELL(despite ALL of our handicapping) could turn out to be like sitting at the Poker table........(read); DL.."I raise"................,UAL.."I call"................AA then "Calls/Re-Raise's, or FOLDS" !!!

Like me(and others), you've probably played Poker, and ALL of us can NEVER predict with certainty, What we will DO, at THAT particuliar moment,..Especially when it is the ...ONLY "GAME" IN THE UNIVERSE !

 

[Maark767]

They are still working on the TWA merger 7 years later, another 3 or 4 years and they might get some "integration" but not if the pilots union has anything to do with it.

Do u think with the new law that the next airline employees will get date of hire??? I'm not sure how it will work out. I was lucky not to have lost one day of senority with the TWA aquisition. I hope that continues !!!!
thanks..

 

[Winglet]

Winglet.

You are %100 positive that it is Arpey and Management that are sand Bagging.

Wasnt the APA sandbagging a while back when they kept cancelling meetings with the Company. I bet they are both stalling trying to see who blinks first.

The only Fact we have is that there are two work Groups with Huge Egos who each think they are more important than anyone else. AMR Execs and APA leadership...........(it will be a long time before either budge)

As usual, the Arpey has everything to gain by slow-leaking, stalling, and trying to drag the present weak contract out as long as possible. What is the motivation of the APA to stall? With a recession looming it would seem to me that the union would want a contract pronto before that happens. If and when AA considers yet another merger, then they'll try and give the unions the bum's rush for a quick deal. I for one would oppose ANY merger, as should NW and DAL pilots.

Until it costs more to not negotiate than to negotiate, that's what he will do. I think ego has little to do with it, at least from my experience with this APA leadership. I think the new union leadership is going about this with cold and deadly seriousness. Nice, cordial, and familiar just gets you screwed when dealing with US corporate leadership these days. This is all about MONEY. Management could care less what you think of them and vice versa. What both sides care about is putting as much of the company's money in their own pockets as possible.

 

[DallasConehead]

What about Alaska? That would be a good addition.

Ken, I may be wrong but I think thats going to be the targeted airline, not sure if it's good or not although they do have allot of 73's and a west coast presence. Can you say "AirCal"?

 

[L1011Ret]

Do u think with the new law that the next airline employees will get date of hire??? I'm not sure how it will work out. I was lucky not to have lost one day of senority with the TWA aquisition. I hope that continues !!!!
thanks..

I do not think DOH is very viable anymore. I think the law provides for arbitration. Losing seniority is an interesting question. If you are #5000 on a 10,000 person seniority list and you merge with another 10,000 person seniority list where members are ratioed in 1:1 you now become #10,000 on a 20,000 person seniority list. Have you lost seniority?

 

[FWAAA]

I don't want to see a merge, I want organic growth.

The only 'Big Red' I want to see is in the chewing gum rack at the news stand.

Truth be told, me too. Problem with "organic growth" is that it's gonna be a long, slow process to grow in Japan and China unless you acquire another airline having a presence there. More China frequencies become available in 2010, 2011 and 2012, but by then (when lots of new frequencies will be available), the serious profits may have already been made. Sorta like the land rush to Heathrow right now. CO has spent a reported $200 million buying LHR slots thinking it will print money once it lands there. Could be that the presses have run dry now that anyone can fly USA-LHR. Profits are made flying to those restricted destinations when almost nobody else is allowed to.

On the domestic front, there ain't gonna be any more "organic growth" for the legacies. That's what the '80s and '90s featured. About 20 years of unbridled growth. And it ain't gonna happen ever again for AA.

The unmet demand is for cheaper domestic seats, and the LCCs are probably gonna be the ones to provide that product. My crystal ball sees nothing but continued shrinkage in the domestic market as WN and B6 and FL and F9 continue to take delivery of new airplanes - dozens of them each year.

With jetA flirting with $3/gal this year, the pool of passengers able to afford higher-priced seats isn't growing, either. It's shrinking, and DL/NW and UA/CO appear poised to firm up their grip on those willing to pay more. And once they combine, those two will dominate the USA-China and USA-Japan markets, and AA can't simply decide to fly more flights to either. Authorities (and slots, to NRT) are scarce commodities.

Alaska? Great state. Great airline. But except for a couple of West-coast to DCA (or is it LGA?) slot exemption routes, they fly nothing that AA couldn't fly on its own. No Japan. No China. No South America. Some 737s? Boeing has agreed to deliver 23 of those to AA next year. AA can get as many of them as it desires/can integrate into its fleet. All AA has to do is write the check, and AA's price from Boeing for those 737s appears competitive with WN's price.

Even better, Alaska and AA already cooperate. I fly AS up and down the west coast already. AA doesn't have to spend money buying AS. They're already pretty tight.

Unfortunately, AS may be the only real target out there once the other four get hitched. Too bad.