American management and unions meet about possible merger

[FWAAA]

AA, UAL, BA and Virgin will still control the prime arrival and departure slots. Many of the new carriers into LHR have paid top dollar for some less than prime arrival and departure slots. Its one thing to be able to get you there, its another to be able to do in the peak arrival, departure, and connecting times.

Excellent point - the Bermuda II Four may still have an advantage over the newcomers. That should make it all the more difficult for the newcomers to print money at Heathrow. The other day, it was reported that CO has spent in excess of $200 million on LHR slots.

 

[WingNaPrayer]

Haven't read the thread but my gut instinct is the airline of choice is Continental. United has been promised a no-holds-barred fight from their unions if they try to merge or absorb Continental or any other carrier. I don't think CO wants that.

That being said . . .

There are a lot of people, both employees and not, who are depending on these unions to stand their ground and road-block any attempts at a merger that isn’t fair and equitable to all AA people.

If AA is going to absorb another carrier, then AA must, repeat, MUST put it's people first. The people who are currently at AA, for the most part, are the people who built that airline and there is no reason they should be expected to step aside and surrender their seniority to anyone coming on board from an absorbed carrier regardless of their years with that carrier.

The TWA debacle tore many families and financial situations apart and for my friends at AA, I know of none of them who could weather any more concessions, and there is no more room in their backs for any more knives.

Unions do your thing! Dirty as you wanna get to it if that is what it takes!

I don't blame or find fault with any employee of AA who wants to stand for their job, protect their seniority, and look out first for their own family and situation, merged carrier be damned!

The downside of course would be if CO were to absorb AA, and the AA brand/name were to go away. Oy Vey!

 

[The Goose]

Haven't read the thread but my gut instinct is the airline of choice is Continental. United has been promised a no-holds-barred fight from their unions if they try to merge or absorb Continental or any other carrier. I don't think CO wants that.

That being said . . .

There are a lot of people, both employees and not, who are depending on these unions to stand their ground and road-block any attempts at a merger that isn’t fair and equitable to all AA people.

If AA is going to absorb another carrier, then AA must, repeat, MUST put it's people first. The people who are currently at AA, for the most part, are the people who built that airline and there is no reason they should be expected to step aside and surrender their seniority to anyone coming on board from an absorbed carrier regardless of their years with that carrier.

The TWA debacle tore many families and financial situations apart and for my friends at AA, I know of none of them who could weather any more concessions, and there is no more room in their backs for any more knives.

Unions do your thing! Dirty as you wanna get to it if that is what it takes!

I don't blame or find fault with any employee of AA who wants to stand for their job, protect their seniority, and look out first for their own family and situation, merged carrier be damned!

The downside of course would be if CO were to absorb AA, and the AA brand/name were to go away. Oy Vey!

A lot of truth in your post - Arpey and the BOD will have to end the ongoing wars with the employees. It's just a crying shame that more of aa"s people aren't ready to retire or beat feet to another situation.

Think about the merger talks, or even the mergers, for that matter. Who gives a tinker's damn if AA isn't the world's largest? To steal a line from Crandall, "Just as long as it's the most profitable". In order to be profitable, all employees and executives will have to be on the same page; at this point, they're not even on the same side, at least not at American.

Needing to be the world's largest is something to feed the ego, much like one's gross salary earnings per year. Nobody gets the benefit of what they brag about so who cares? More than ever now, I'm beginning to wonder what manner of educated idiots and supposed thinkers are turned out by colleges and universities each year with degrees, said degree being no more than a 3rd party opinion as to whether or not one is willing to play the game.

With AA and the seniority issues in case of a merger, give all their time - fold 'em in like they should be. With a "union" like the TWU, about all seniority is good for anyway is choosing vacation.

 

[nbmcg01]

Since when is the first priority of a union preserving jobs?

Unions developed the seniority system to allow for layoffs when there is a surpluss of labor so that wages would be preserved and employers could not use the surpluss in order to lower wages.

Unions have lobbied for years to construct "safety nets" for workers so that they could make better wages and benifits for their members the number one priority. If preserving jobs is the number one priority then workers will never see increased wages and benifits. Whenever opponents of labor are faced with arguements for increased mimimum wage rates they use the preserving jobs arguement.

The first priority of unions is better wages and benifits. Let the government, who would eventually carry the burden of the unemployed, prioritize job creation.

Labor 101...pay, work rules and bennies are second.

 

[Nor'Easta]

Employee concessions to avoid bankruptcy = Executive bonuses;

Is that your idea of money talks & bull$**t walks ??
:unsure:

I think you need to re-read your gripe and then re-read my answer. BTW, your table is ready bitter party of one! 🙄

 

[L1011Ret]

Haven't read the thread but my gut instinct is the airline of choice is Continental. United has been promised a no-holds-barred fight from their unions if they try to merge or absorb Continental or any other carrier. I don't think CO wants that.

That being said . . .

There are a lot of people, both employees and not, who are depending on these unions to stand their ground and road-block any attempts at a merger that isn’t fair and equitable to all AA people.

If AA is going to absorb another carrier, then AA must, repeat, MUST put it's people first. The people who are currently at AA, for the most part, are the people who built that airline and there is no reason they should be expected to step aside and surrender their seniority to anyone coming on board from an absorbed carrier regardless of their years with that carrier.

The TWA debacle tore many families and financial situations apart and for my friends at AA, I know of none of them who could weather any more concessions, and there is no more room in their backs for any more knives.

Unions do your thing! Dirty as you wanna get to it if that is what it takes!

I don't blame or find fault with any employee of AA who wants to stand for their job, protect their seniority, and look out first for their own family and situation, merged carrier be damned!

The downside of course would be if CO were to absorb AA, and the AA brand/name were to go away. Oy Vey!

Yes, then the Continental F/As could staple the AA F/As right to the bottom of the list and justify it as economic necessity for the Continental F/As as APFA did with Reno and TWA F/As. If the Continental F/A union does not staple they will be accused of DFR. The AA F/As have a scope clause but APFA's own lawyer has publically declared that it is worthless.

 

[R Davis]

I'm sorry that your perception of me is so tainted. Personally, I have been very happy the past few years. I have stated a fair appraisal of alternatives that could have been used to make the acquisition better for all. If calling a union to task for not educating the membership and allowing a proper vote on how the integration should take place is complaining, then I'm guilty. If expecting my union to adhere to the first priority of preserving jobs is whinning, then I'm guilty. I blame AA senior management for lying to Congress, the APFA for allowing the illegal RPA to be implemented, and if that causes you discomfort, too bad. These are all issues that you should be fighting as they affect your livelyhood also. If reminding the active employees of the "shared sacrifice" of those furloughed (now topping $700,000,000) is offensive, just don't read my posts because I refuse to let that be swept under the carpet. And finally, if advocating for the return of all AA furloughed f/as is offensive to you, put on your big girl/boy panties and deal with it.

As to the STL rep, how dare you speak about something you have no knowledge of...Our strike was our business, not yours. Some of the young 85-86 hires have become wonderful activists. They learned and have been eager to "give back" to their flight attendant community. I was "out" from March of 1986 thru May of 1988. I EARNED the right to judge and or forgive. You did not. (at least not with our f/as) STL has the "real deal" representing them. The rest of the system should be so lucky. I would have loved to see how well you all would have held up after 10 days, 10 months, or several years. And while I think you all didn't have time to exchange phone numbers and recipes much less be "tested", your strike was yours, and I will not judge anyone who had to make that tough decision. I have never crossed even an informational picket but that is MY choice. I have done my best to educate our younger members in the importance of unity. Maybe you should come to class.

No need to go to class, I taught the class. Nothing positive ever comes out of negativity and rehashing what could've, should,ve, would,ve been. One would think after making 690 posts, you would have realized how much time you have wasted by not getting out there in person and making a real difference as most would do if they have a real passion. If a scab is the real deal and what you consider a unionist, maybe you should consider retaking the class.

 

[FA Mikey]

No need to go to class, I taught the class. Nothing positive ever comes out of negativity and rehashing what could've, should,ve, would,ve been. One would think after making 690 posts, you would have realized how much time you have wasted by not getting out there in person and making a real difference as most would do if they have a real passion. If a scab is the real deal and what you consider a unionist, maybe you should consider retaking the class.

As you point a finger at someone else, you might consider how many of your whooping 6 post have been negative or antagonistic.