American Offers Pay for Performance

[AMFAMAN]

If that's accurate, that's the best news you could ever hope for. A smaller pool of A&P licensed AMTs will mean higher wages for those who remain. It's why engineers and nurses and computer science grads coming out of college have received signing bonuses and ever-higher starting salaries.

Supply and Demand at its best.

p.s. Do whatever you can to discourage guys from going to MX schools promising average wages of $58k (Westwood's favorite pitch).

The supply of AMT's has been reduced by the demand for our skills elsewhere. The other day I had a CWA represented Verizon Fios tech at my house to install the fiber optic network. Got talking about his salary, and it turns out he makes $2 an hour less than we do with a new contract coming soon. Benefits far exceeded what we get, and 4 - 10 hour day shift work with weekends off. Unlimited OT, more holidays and more vacation time. The tech told me that many of the laid off DFW Delta mechanics are working for them, and only a few have left for jobs at SWA or UPS.

So with better jobs like that out there, and with a hell of alot less responsiblilty; recruiting new AMT's will become much harder, except for lowlife bottom feeder scumbags like PTO. But then again, I wouldn't even let that SCAB work on my FIOS. <_<

 

[The Goose]

Ok, you got me. AA does have that cash hoard which has been built up thru sales of new stock and leftover cash from operations. Not from huge profits. Notta chance AA's gonna agree to restore the wages outta that cash.

You actually don't know why it's been built up? Maybe the prospect of $100/bbl oil? The fear of another huge disruption like the SARS disaster? The very real possibility that Pacific routes might have become available when UA and NW were in Ch 11 (admitedly less likely now)? That's just some of the reasons. When you're laid off, do you tap your savings to give your kids an increase in their allowances? I wouldn't, and Arpey's not gonna spend that cash on wages. Time for a reality check.
That would be stock bonuses, genius, but nearly everyone posting here says they don't want a variable comp plan based on stock payouts. They think they'll get their wages restored to pre-concession levels. Good luck with that.

I see we have a cubicle dwelling genius/smarta$$ in the crowd - rather typical of your type, though. As much as I dislike office yuppies, I've made an attempt to be decent, even to you. Can you do the same?

The stash of cash is being added to. If those additions were coming from new stock sales, the share price would be down to around $10/ share due to the dilutive effect of same being dumped on the market. Excess to operations? That's called gross profits. In the 'bookkeeping' process, we know this is the value expenses are subtracted from to arrive at net income (basic high school accounting), and some of that 'net' finds its way to the stash. The word bookkeeping is in points because of its creative nature on occasion, especially when a company (in this case, AMR) wants to appear unprofitable for negotiation purposes. Bottom line - the stash has grown by about $1 billion per year for a while, and the shares outstanding number hasn't grown enough to support your statement re: sales of stock.

The stock payouts would be a rather interesting angle, but it's doubtful, as I've said before, that the dog will share its food dish. According to the S-3 on the SEC website AMR filed last August, notice was given to create an indeterminate amount of stock which is what was given (gratis, free, whatever) to execs (and others whom AMR felt may withdraw support for their scheme) who immediately sold same and diluted the stock price by $6/share. That $6/share represents the stockholder value taken by the executives from the shareholders with the board's blessings. If we were to "share" in this windfall, there would be, without a doubt, a different metric applied, insuring the workers would get the short end of the stick, as usual. Perhaps if the same metric were applied as with the execs and the same percentage of bonus to pay were awarded, I might be interested; otherwise, F.U.R.P.

Besides - If we wanted to be paid as (mis)management, we'd have to become management, right? Sorry - I, as others, take a certain amount of pride in ourselves and find the notion of employment or raises secured by negative pressure rather unappealing.

 

[aasbeotch]

With the ATA (you know, the airline [mis]management's union, in effect) predicting lower profits for its member organizations, even considering this "offer" is ludicrous. Arpey is more than happy to present this tripe as they know full well profits will not be there, having the effect of again denying any compensation increase, the difference being they hope we'll vote for it (if the committee, then, they're off the hook; i. e., not the bad guys.

I fail to understand how it will take 2 weeks to read what the company would like us to buy into - is the twu "leadership" really that inept in their reading skills, or does the delay aid, in some way, the sale of this nonsense?

Nothing short of full restoration of the pre-concession contract is acceptable to me.

It actually takes that long for the 'tards to get their stories straight so that the sheep will eat out of their hands. This plan sounds like another divide and conquer scenario in which we all know who's going to lose. It would help if every knucklehead that tries running a local union doesn't try running to the int'l for a better job for themselves and screwing everyone below them when its time for a "little" return on our investment (ex. our time, our pay, our vacation, our holidays, our medical coverage......)

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

I thought it was "wrong" to accept OT when your fellow union brothers were furloughed. Here's what Princess said about that the other day:

I think Ken MacTiernan has recently posted that it's just plane wrong to accept any OT while your brothers are on the street. Which is it? Anyway - I agree with you. Work extra hours to make up what you lost. Doesn't do much for your quality of life, but it does pay the bills.


Probably the worst language written in our contract is the ability of the company to force the lowest senior individual to work if everyone above him turns the OT down.

So is it worse to turn down the OT when the company will force someone to work any way.

I would rather have someone who is willing to work than have the company force someone who does not want to or has other commitments.

Is it wrong to work OT while others are on the street yes

Get the language changed in the contract so that the company can not force an individule to stay OT and I bet you would see alot more solidarity among each other.
Once again with the twu language the company wins again



Don't forget your pony.

You want it all back. Plus a raise. Understandable considering the $120k give or take the concessions have cost you. Might as well aim high. In fact, might as well demand something like UPS pay plus 5% or so. No need to lowball your opening demand.

Best of luck. With your loser union and its loser negotiators, you'll need it.

Thats right we want it all back. The company is going to pay one way or the other. Moral will continue to deteriorate at its steady pace and the only ones that suffer are the customers. The AMT will continue to fix airplanes but never the way we used to. Everything now takes twice as long from engine changes to tire changes. It all takes longer. There is no longer any incentive to go above and beyond like we use to. In order to make up for the dollar amount we lost the company must now hold overtime on a daily basis because what was once done in one shift now takes 2. I know the company keeps records of engine changes and how long each one takes. Compare the engine changes of today to those of 6 years ago. It is actually a shame. But hey they made us this way

Its the same old saying pay me now or pay me later

 

[The Goose]

It actually takes that long for the 'tards to get their stories straight so that the sheep will eat out of their hands. This plan sounds like another divide and conquer scenario in which we all know who's going to lose. It would help if every knucklehead that tries running a local union doesn't try running to the int'l for a better job for themselves and screwing everyone below them when its time for a "little" return on our investment (ex. our time, our pay, our vacation, our holidays, our medical coverage......)

 

[FWAAA]

The stash of cash is being added to. If those additions were coming from new stock sales, the share price would be down to around $10/ share due to the dilutive effect of same being dumped on the market. Excess to operations? That's called gross profits. In the 'bookkeeping' process, we know this is the value expenses are subtracted from to arrive at net income (basic high school accounting), and some of that 'net' finds its way to the stash. The word bookkeeping is in points because of its creative nature on occasion, especially when a company (in this case, AMR) wants to appear unprofitable for negotiation purposes. Bottom line - the stash has grown by about $1 billion per year for a while, and the shares outstanding number hasn't grown enough to support your statement re: sales of stock.

Despite your incorrect sentence (bolded), AMR has in fact sold 41 million shares to the public in three separate offerings in 2005, 2006 and 2007, netting $1.120 billion in the process. In 2003, AMR sold $300 million of convertible debt and in 2004, an additional $324 million of convertible debt. Not all the increase came from sales of new stock, however.

On top of that, asset sales have added significant cash: In 2003, sales of Worldspan, Hotwire and part of AMR's Orbitz stake brought in $219 million, $84 million and $65 million, respectively. The 2004 sale of the rest of Orbitz netted the company another $223 million.

Other new debt issued in 2003 and 2004 (primarily equipment trust certs and 2d mortgage spare parts financings) brought in $533 million more.

That's a total of $2.868 billion of new cash that didn't represent net profits during that time.

Cash has grown at $2.0 billion a year? Hardly. At 3/31/03, unrestricted cash and short-term investments was about $1.3 billion. At 6/30/07, it stood at about $5.9 billion. Of the $4.6 billion increase since then, only $1.73 billion resulted from positive cash flow, enough to pay for just one year of concession restoration (after accounting for the $2.868 billion listed above).

AA has had positive cash flow since the concessions, primarily the non-cash expenses, like amortization and depreciation. Recently, AA has begun showing net profits even after subtracting those items. But hardly big enough to restore your concessions.

The stock payouts would be a rather interesting angle, but it's doubtful, as I've said before, that the dog will share its food dish. According to the S-3 on the SEC website AMR filed last August, notice was given to create an indeterminate amount of stock which is what was given (gratis, free, whatever) to execs (and others whom AMR felt may withdraw support for their scheme) who immediately sold same and diluted the stock price by $6/share. That $6/share represents the stockholder value taken by the executives from the shareholders with the board's blessings. If we were to "share" in this windfall, there would be, without a doubt, a different metric applied, insuring the workers would get the short end of the stick, as usual. Perhaps if the same metric were applied as with the execs and the same percentage of bonus to pay were awarded, I might be interested; otherwise, F.U.R.P.

As I posted earlier, the UA pilots and mechanics demanded 55% of the company in exchange for their 1994 concessions. Consenting to the ESOP was their huge mistake, not the acquisition of a big equity stake. AA's employee unions should have demanded at least that big a piece of the pie in 2003 in exchange for their massive give-backs of about $8.1 billion over the five year term. Management won't agree? Then go ahead and shut the place down. Everyone has a better, higher paying gig just waiting for them, right?

You guys should settle for no less than half of the company in 2008. Good luck getting as much as you can.

 

[aasbeotch]

FORT WORTH, Texas (AP) -- Union negotiators are studying a proposal from American Airlines that would link pay raises for mechanics and other ground workers to company performance.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070918/american_ai...labor.html?.v=2

No offense Hatu, I know you're only putting online what's been written, but what performance aspect would we be associating our pay to. The "on-time performance" (which is in the toilet), or the stock performance (which is also in the toilet), or to some customer satisfaction type of performance (which is most assuredly in the toilet due to low morale). In the article that you posted it more or less stated that Jim Little has come up with this idea. Well hallelujah brother Jim is gonna due something "good" to, oops did i say that, i meant for the membership. We'd better hope that there isn't another closed door meeting between the corporate minds, closely followed by a "good ol boy" hug and hand shaking ceremony, or we can be assured we're going to get the pipe. Just wish there were something we could all do as opposed to calling in a vote (that quite possibly was rigged) or resting our futures on someone who doesn't comprehend legal jargon. Show me the light someone please.........."get busy living or get busy dying."

 

[Vortilon]

Let's say you guys do get tough and eventually are released to exercise your rights of self-help. AA hires firms in Alabama, SAL, SIN, HKG, PVG, etc., for heavy airframe overhaul. Do you really think those thousands of suddenly displaced AMTs in Tulsa, Fort Worth and Kansas City won't eventually find their way to JFK and MIA and the other large line maintenance stations and pick up some of the slack?

Looks to me like AA could make quick work of your claimed shortage of AMTs. Lotsa mechanics with families to support. Or do none of those guys have the skills to work the line?

You might have a better gig in the wings but are you confident that all those other guys have something better to do that pays more than $60k?

Of course, if you did have something else to do, I'm amazed that you've continued to work for substandard wages for 4+ years instead of pursuing it.

Quick work? I doubt it. They might get some to scab, but very few. I have a contact that works at NWA in tech ops; anyway, he says things are terrible over there with the skill levels or lack there of - that the scabs brought. NWA is having to rewrite all their MX manuals to dumb them down so these scabs have a better chance of understanding them. The chance that any third party MX vendor could handle the shear volume that AA would bring both for line and overhaul is next to nil. Point is even after 2 years, NWA with there scabs are still struggling - and they scraped the bottom of the barrel to find the scabs they have now. On top of that, the AMTs at AA are in the same union as the FSC,s, Auto & Fac maint., Dispatch, Meteorology, and the sim techs. That presents a whole different ball game as well. I would say good luck to any putz in AA management that thought they could make quick work of the AMTs at AA.

 

[aasbeotch]

Despite your incorrect sentence (bolded), AMR has in fact sold 41 million shares to the public in three separate offerings in 2005, 2006 and 2007, netting $1.120 billion in the process. In 2003, AMR sold $300 million of convertible debt and in 2004, an additional $324 million of convertible debt. Not all the increase came from sales of new stock, however.

On top of that, asset sales have added significant cash: In 2003, sales of Worldspan, Hotwire and part of AMR's Orbitz stake brought in $219 million, $84 million and $65 million, respectively. The 2004 sale of the rest of Orbitz netted the company another $223 million.

Other new debt issued in 2003 and 2004 (primarily equipment trust certs and 2d mortgage spare parts financings) brought in $533 million more.

That's a total of $2.868 billion of new cash that didn't represent net profits during that time.

Cash has grown at $2.0 billion a year? Hardly. At 3/31/03, unrestricted cash and short-term investments was about $1.3 billion. At 6/30/07, it stood at about $5.9 billion. Of the $4.6 billion increase since then, only $1.73 billion resulted from positive cash flow, enough to pay for just one year of concession restoration (after accounting for the $2.868 billion listed above).

AA has had positive cash flow since the concessions, primarily the non-cash expenses, like amortization and depreciation. Recently, AA has begun showing net profits even after subtracting those items. But hardly big enough to restore your concessions.
As I posted earlier, the UA pilots and mechanics demanded 55% of the company in exchange for their 1994 concessions. Consenting to the ESOP was their huge mistake, not the acquisition of a big equity stake. AA's employee unions should have demanded at least that big a piece of the pie in 2003 in exchange for their massive give-backs of about $8.1 billion over the five year term. Management won't agree? Then go ahead and shut the place down. Everyone has a better, higher paying gig just waiting for them, right?

You guys should settle for no less than half of the company in 2008. Good luck getting as much as you can.

What with all of this money talk, I've got one question. Where did the money come from that was given to our executives as a "bonus?" The majority of guys I've spoken with on the line have no problem with executives getting their money, but just don't cry about how little you have left of it when it comes time to give back what was taken from another man. The corporate world is great at poor mouthing about money when the time comes to give back to the people who make the place run. By the way there are people that work at AA that could just as easily leave this place and make a life outside of it, but they have what old-schoolers like to call pride in their work (that term may be foreign to most), or they like to travel. Who freakin' cares why they're here, but at line stations like MIA, LGA, JFK, SFO, LAX you shouldn't have to work 2-3 jobs to make ends meet because a company that likes to pride itself on being the biggest and the "best" doesn't want to pay you money that was given away. It's ludicrous for them to think that the membership of whatever union that was affected wouldn't ask for it back.

 

[FWAAA]

What with all of this money talk, I've got one question. Where did the money come from that was given to our executives as a "bonus?" The majority of guys I've spoken with on the line have no problem with executives getting their money, but just don't cry about how little you have left of it when it comes time to give back what was taken from another man. The corporate world is great at poor mouthing about money when the time comes to give back to the people who make the place run. By the way there are people that work at AA that could just as easily leave this place and make a life outside of it, but they have what old-schoolers like to call pride in their work (that term may be foreign to most), or they like to travel. Who freakin' cares why they're here, but at line stations like MIA, LGA, JFK, SFO, LAX you shouldn't have to work 2-3 jobs to make ends meet because a company that likes to pride itself on being the biggest and the "best" doesn't want to pay you money that was given away. It's ludicrous for them to think that the membership of whatever union that was affected wouldn't ask for it back.

The PUP/PSP plans originally were gonna pay out in cash from the company's cash. The board quickly amended that due to employee outrage so most of the $255 million (total of both years) was paid out in newly issued stock. Stock that, as Goose correctly points out, the execs were free to sell to the public and many of them did just that.

While the company didn't have to write a check for the cash ultimately received by the 800+ execs, the stock did represent lost opportunity to the company - had it not given it to the execs, the company could have sold the stock to the public itself, pocketing about $255 million.

About the line guys at the big line stations you mentioned: I can't understand how anyone at MIA, LGA, JFK, SFO, LAX and other high cost areas can put up with earning the same as the guys at TULE or MCIE. The cost of living in those places (or the AFW/DFW area, for that matter) is much less than those expensive line stations. While all mechanics should be fairly paid, it's obvious that the overhaul guys have been living large for many years while those line guys have been scrimping (even though they're all paid the same). The commonly repeated stereotype of a big new dually and a bass boat isn't far off. Meanwhile, Bob Owens has repeatedly posted about his old multi-hundred thousand mile beater that he can't afford to replace. NYC is a damned expensive place to live, as is anywhere in California.

Working as an overhaul mechanic has to be one of the better paying blue collar jobs in Tulsa or Kansas City; line mechanic at any of those stations you listed is nowhere near the top of the payscale in those cities. Dunno what the solution is. Give the line guys a sizable raise while giving the overhaul guys a percent or two? Doubt the overhaul guys vote for that.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ------- Just as a side note people, there is "NO" O.T. at MCI! NONE! NADA! ZERO! Not that it's turned down. None is offered! Not that I'd work it anyway! But that's just me! As for how MCI would vote on this Contract, don't jump to any conclusions! During the concessionary vote in 2003, most people felt MCI was on AA's extermination list. Weather true, or not, that was what the majority of people here believed! That is not the case today!

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

It actually takes that long for the 'tards to get their stories straight so that the sheep will eat out of their hands. This plan sounds like another divide and conquer scenario in which we all know who's going to lose. It would help if every knucklehead that tries running a local union doesn't try running to the int'l for a better job for themselves and screwing everyone below them when its time for a "little" return on our investment (ex. our time, our pay, our vacation, our holidays, our medical coverage......)

I can tell you 100% that Local 564 President John Ruiz is a fighter FOR his members and all AA AMTs. The last thing he wants is an Int. spot and be next to the likes of burchette.

 

[MCDP]

I can tell you 100% that Local 564 President John Ruiz is a fighter FOR his members and all AA AMTs. The last thing he wants is an Int. spot and be next to the likes of burchette.

A fighter? Oh please, spare me.

 

[TWU informer]

I can tell you 100% that Local 564 President John Ruiz is a fighter FOR his members and all AA AMTs. The last thing he wants is an Int. spot and be next to the likes of burchette.

That is why his name does not appear on the small list of sub-committee members who have now been seperated from the rest of the negotiating committee.

Doesn't matter anyway. TWU International has many tools to quelch any and all fighters in the arena.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

....The 19% was a nice start, but that should have been rejected. ESOPs are bad ideas, but at UAL, the pilots and mechanics got 55% of the company when they agreed to large concessions. You losers (in the aggregate) settled for a mere 19% in exchange for your huge concessions. And that 19% was shared with the FAs (which didn't happen at UAL).......

So you're holding UALs failed ESOP as something the AA AMTs should've aspired to?

The same ESOP where 55% of the company got the employees only 3 board seats.(None on the compensation committee)

The same ESOP that had that annoying clause where you couldn't sell your stock unless you quit, got fired, or retired.

You admit its a bad idea. However, your continued liberal use of it as an example clearly shows you have no real idea how much of a "bad idea" it really was.