American Morals shifting...A W A Y ...from the...H A T E R S !

[southwind]

It's been a while.   Does that make it OK?  Whats the statute of limitation for religious persecutions?

The world changes and so does some religions.....on the other hand, some.don't!

So you justify one religions practices by going.back 100's of years?.....Got it!

 

[delldude]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/05/27/socially-liberal_n_7453526.html
 

 
This haters crap, you got it backwards.......you guys need to look in the mirror.

 

[Ms Tree]

The world changes and so does some religions.....on the other hand, some.don't!

So you justify one religions practices by going.back 100's of years?.....Got it!

When have I ever justified anything a religion does?  Why do you constantly twist what people say?  You asked when the last time christians did, I pointed out that it has been a while and asked it it was OK because it has been a while.  That in no ways implies that I am justifying the actions today.  THey are equally wrong.  The fanatical blind hatred of religious extremists is always bad.  It was bad when the christians did it and its bad when the muslims do it today.  

 

[eolesen]

It's been a while.   Does that make it OK?  Whats the statute of limitation for religious persecutions?

Seems most people have forgiven Germany's role in the Holocaust after two generations, and yet there are people on this forum today who have no problem bringing up things from the 1800's (or earlier) when it suits their arguments...

 

[southwind]

When have I ever justified anything a religion does?  Why do you constantly twist what people say?  You asked when the last time christians did, I pointed out that it has been a while and asked it it was OK because it has been a while.  That in no ways implies that I am justifying the actions today.  THey are equally wrong.  The fanatical blind hatred of religious extremists is always bad.  It was bad when the christians did it and its bad when the muslims do it today.

All groups have extremist......even Libtard Demorats!

 

[Ms Tree]

Seems most people have forgiven Germany's role in the Holocaust after two generations, and yet there are people on this forum today who have no problem bringing up things from the 1800's (or earlier) when it suits their arguments...

 
Good point.  Germany is paying reparations to survivors and they seem to be acknowledging their past and owning up to it for the most part.
 
Religion has been used to denigrate, subjugate and persecute people since it's inception and that has not changed.  Religion in the US is being used to deny rights to homosexuals, polygamists and others.  If the bench mark has to be beheadings that seems like it is a bit high for my liking.  While denial of equality does not equal denial of life, it is still an abuse of religion and should not get a pass just because some other wing nuts are doing something worse. 

 

[Ms Tree]

All groups have extremist......even Libtard Demorats!

 
You accuse me of something that I clearly did not say and all you do is change course.... gets real old.
 
In response to this post.  When have I ever said otherwise?

 

[eolesen]

Religion has been used to denigrate, subjugate and persecute people since it's inception and that has not changed.  Religion in the US is being used to deny rights to homosexuals, polygamists and others.  If the bench mark has to be beheadings that seems like it is a bit high for my liking.  While denial of equality does not equal denial of life, it is still an abuse of religion and should not get a pass just because some other wing nuts are doing something worse.

I think you're 100% wrong on the subjugate/persecute/denigrate crap. I've sat thru 40+ years of sermons, and have yet to hear one that said to deny anyone equality, let alone life. Never have I heard instructions or even suggestions to subjugate or denigrate others for believing differently.

There may be individuals like Westboro who've used religion as an excuse to engage in those behaviors, but at the end of the day, that's still the actions of individuals, not religion as an institute, or even as a tenet of what I'd consider the predominant faiths in the US.

Odd that you'd mention religion being used to deny polygamy, considering that religion is usually the justification for it, and the laws against polygamy were specifically targeted to rein in expansion and power of the Mormons.

 

[Ms Tree]

I guess because you have never heard it or seen it then it cannot be true.... and yet....
 
 
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_slav1.htm
 
http://historyengine.richmond.edu/episodes/view/3535
 
http://www.ushistory.org/us/27f.asp
 
There are many many more.
 
As for marriage equality, who exactly is speaking out against it?  Has the pope said anything about it?  Domestically, have there been any letters signed by religious leaders speaking out against marriage equality?
 
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/03/18/where-christian-churches-stand-on-gay-marriage/
 

I hold the view that has been the consensus in our country for over two centuries: that marriage is between one man and one woman. Polls indicate that the American consensus is changing — but like many other believers, I will not change my faith-driven view on this matter, even if it becomes a minority opinion. - Bobby Jindal
 

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/23/opinion/bobby-jindal-im-holding-firm-against-gay-marriage.html?_r=0
 
http://www.leanrightamerica.org/uncategorized/religious-leaders-unite-against-gay-marriage/
 
I can only give the same advice to you that I gave south.  Read first, then post.  To even pretend that religion has not been used to deny equality to people is just plain fantasy and delusional.  That you could write that and actually hit "post" amazes me. 

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

I guess because you have never heard it or seen it then it cannot be true.... and yet....
 
 
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_slav1.htm
 
http://historyengine.richmond.edu/episodes/view/3535
 
http://www.ushistory.org/us/27f.asp
 
There are many many more.
 
As for marriage equality, who exactly is speaking out against it?  Has the pope said anything about it?  Domestically, have there been any letters signed by religious leaders speaking out against marriage equality?
 
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/03/18/where-christian-churches-stand-on-gay-marriage/
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/23/opinion/bobby-jindal-im-holding-firm-against-gay-marriage.html?_r=0
 
http://www.leanrightamerica.org/uncategorized/religious-leaders-unite-against-gay-marriage/
 
I can only give the same advice to you that I gave south.  Read first, then post.  To even pretend that religion has not been used to deny equality to people is just plain fantasy and delusional.  That you could write that and actually hit "post" amazes me. 

 
' Coming soon to a TV set near you '.
The... S C O T U S...will redefine the definition of Marriage, Then ALL the Re-plub-blican presidential candidates will be crying thier asss's off, just like they did after Roe v Wade.
 
Do you think the " SHITE will hit the GOP fan "...then ' Tree  ??
 
I already know, waaay in advance how F'n Hard I'll be laughing MY asss off !

 

[delldude]

Its not SCOTUS job to redefine marriage.

 

[Dog Wonder]

Whose job is it?

 

[Ms Tree]

 
' Coming soon to a TV set near you '.
The... S C O T U S...will redefine the definition of Marriage, Then ALL the Re-plub-blican presidential candidates will be crying thier asss's off, just like they did after Roe v Wade.
 
Do you think the " SHITE will hit the GOP fan "...then ' Tree  ??
 
I already know, waaay in advance how F'n Hard I'll be laughing MY asss off !

I do not think they will say a word.  If asked what they think they will just say that the law has been decided and we need to move on.  They know that the majority of people favor marriage equality and that if they want to get the young vote they need to stfu about marriage equality.  If the SCOTUS rules against marriage equality that is when the GOP will squirm.  The GOP does not wan to have to deal with this issue any more.
 
The SCOTUS will not be redefining anything.  They will be applying the 14th amendment to a simple contract law.  Everyone has to be treated the same.  They are dealing with civil law, not marriage.

 

[eolesen]

Tree, I know you'll always manage to find something to back up your opinions, but that doesn't make them facts.

Aside from fringe elements like Westboro, you won't find hate, denigration, or subjugation, or being taught within mainstream Christianity.

Don't believe me? Go spend a month of Sundays in a place like Fellowship in Grapevine, or Potter's House in Dallas. You'll probably cringe a few times over the concept of answering to a higher being, but you're not going to hear the type of negativity you seem to be so convinced as being a central or even secondary theme...

 

[Ms Tree]

Tree, I know you'll always manage to find something to back up your opinions, but that doesn't make them facts.

Aside from fringe elements like Westboro, you won't find hate, denigration, or subjugation, or being taught within mainstream Christianity.

Don't believe me? Go spend a month of Sundays in a place like Fellowship in Grapevine, or Potter's House in Dallas. You'll probably cringe a few times over the concept of answering to a higher being, but you're not going to hear the type of negativity you seem to be so convinced as being a central or even secondary theme...

 
 
They are called facts. The Pope, the leader of the Catholic religion has spoken out against marriage equality and you want to sit here and say it's not fact and that religion is not trying to deny equality?  Thirty Five religious leaders signed a letter threatening the SCOTUS if they ruled in favor of marriage equality and you want to say that they are not advocating denial of equality based on their religion?  Jindal said that his views against marriage equality are based on his faith.  Where do you think he learned that?  
 
I guess from your point of view you would not see it as hate being taught since you seem to agree with the idea that gays should be denied marriage equality.  
 
Is main stream Christianity in support of marriage equality or not?  If not then I suppose it depends if your rights are being denied as to whether or not you feel religion is teaching hate and denying peoples rights.  
 
To deny that religion is at the very least advocating the denial of rights to people is to deny reality.