American looking to "right-size" the company and staffing levels for the Fall and 2021

[CremaDiLimone]

I'm going to have to disagree with you on this statement. This current offer gives you half of a year's pay along with an extension on your medical plan. If you're in the 60 range, that leaves you with a severe cut to your income. We all know that starting to collect your SS at 62 isn't the best option due to the decreased amount. Leaving at 60, has you waiting almost 2 years in order to collect even a reduced amount. Add to that a frozen pension, or even worse, one that ended up with the PBGC. Then, some of us have the sucky IAM pension that started out in 2003. It was just simple math for me to see that this isn't any type of a great insentive to leave. I just had to look at what my base pay is going to be for the next 4-5 years, and I would be down well over 300k at the minimum. So I must ask you, what do you live off of after that half years pay dries up?

pretty much spot on. this buyout is terrific for workers with $$$, but 3-6 years shy of medicare. the insurance fund is super (tax-free)..and it appears that one will never have to worry about paying for health insurance again - including supplemental medicare that increases with age. plenty of money in the insurance fund.

workers over 65, don't care and want as much of a lump sum payout as possible. 6 months won't cut it. i work with a handful of these guys.

workers under 58 are stuck. certainly not enough of a lump sum and the potential $150k insurance fund will quickly dwindle down paying $1,100 a month to cobra for 4-5 years, after the 30 months of current insurance rates.

the insurance fund is a great offer. i understand why the company is excited about it, but the average worker doesn't have millions in their bank account to stem the income loss.

 

[dfw gen]

pretty much spot on. this buyout is terrific for workers with $$$, but 3-6 years shy of medicare. the insurance fund is super (tax-free)..and it appears that one will never have to worry about paying for health insurance again - including supplemental medicare that increases with age. plenty of money in the insurance fund.

workers over 65, don't care and want as much of a lump sum payout as possible. 6 months won't cut it. i work with a handful of these guys.

workers under 58 are stuck. certainly not enough of a lump sum and the potential $150k insurance fund will quickly dwindle down paying $1,100 a month to cobra for 4-5 years, after the 30 months of current insurance rates.

the insurance fund is a great offer. i understand why the company is excited about it, but the average worker doesn't have millions in their bank account to stem the income loss.

maybe,maybe not

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Upon further reading and discussions with other LAA employees the RHRA spending acct. which is described in the VEOP package section of Jetnet states that the use of the $100-$150k acct. can be used as a bridge to Medicare with company COBRA, for 30 months, But can be used even if on medicare to pay for supplemental insurance as well as prescriptions. In my discussion I discovered that if what I read is factual I should not have to pay for my supplemental for yrs along with my part D prescriptions. For those of you whom are thinking about this Package and taking the Lump sum read and really think about what it says.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

A question from the floor, when was the warn letter papers sent, and when was VEOP offered. Between TUL & DFW there has been a discussion about is this VEOP some type of stand instead and shouldn't the money being offered be what it says in our contract which is $22,500 PLUS 17 weeks severance pay with more than 15 yrs of service. AA and the TWU/IAM ASSociation have said this is a company thing and the TWU has NO say in the matter. But if it is or should be due to language in our contract we should also get that Money at DATE of Separation, NOT in 2021.

 

[Talos]

pretty much spot on. this buyout is terrific for workers with $$$, but 3-6 years shy of medicare. the insurance fund is super (tax-free)..and it appears that one will never have to worry about paying for health insurance again - including supplemental medicare that increases with age. plenty of money in the insurance fund.

workers over 65, don't care and want as much of a lump sum payout as possible. 6 months won't cut it. i work with a handful of these guys.

workers under 58 are stuck. certainly not enough of a lump sum and the potential $150k insurance fund will quickly dwindle down paying $1,100 a month to cobra for 4-5 years, after the 30 months of current insurance rates.

the insurance fund is a great offer. i understand why the company is excited about it, but the average worker doesn't have millions in their bank account to stem the income loss.

A big question about this buyout is how it would be effected by a bankruptcy. It looks very tempting for guys in their 60s, but if a bankruptcy would cancel it then it's a suckers play.

 

[dfw gen]

A big question about this buyout is how it would be effected by a bankruptcy. It looks very tempting for guys in their 60s, but if a bankruptcy would cancel it then it's a suckers play.

Yup.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

A big question about this buyout is how it would be effected by a bankruptcy. It looks very tempting for guys in their 60s, but if a bankruptcy would cancel it then it's a suckers play.

No ONE knows what could happen in BK court or what will be decided.

Here is an article on rHRA https://www.mymidamerica.com/news/n...d-unwanted-attrition-with-creative-solutions/

 

[Talos]

No ONE knows what could happen in BK court or what will be decided.

Here is an article on rHRA https://www.mymidamerica.com/news/n...d-unwanted-attrition-with-creative-solutions/

It's a good article and a nice health care deal for people if it would survive a bankruptcy. The company seems to want to push all payments down the road to August 2021 which makes you wonder if that would make it through bankruptcy. The Association should have their legal people put out some statements on the consequences of taking this kind of buyout, but then again looking out for LAA members has not been a priority.

 

[robbedagain]

I've wondered why push money back a year. Combined w operating more flights most likely not full full n air travel being down. Fall is fast approaching. virus is slamming this country n the world it just seems AA wants to go CH 11

 

[eolesen]

what no new strings? old strings are ok? do they mean they'll take money with no layoffs and bonuses for execs, or they can layoff and give bonuses to execs?

Bonuses for exec's are banned thru 2021, so that's an old string.

No layoffs thru 9/30 is an old string. Trying to extend that to 2021 would be a new string.

The longer layoffs are averted, the more long term damage that gets done. It's going to be a two year recovery, and no company can afford to keep 25% or more of its employees at full pay and doing nothing.

 

[swamt]

here's the key -



what no new strings? old strings are ok? do they mean they'll take money with no layoffs and bonuses for execs, or they can layoff and give bonuses to execs?

when they complained about ettihad, qatar, emirates...they were very clear with their issues, points and how to resolve.

disappointing response. how can the govt. give them billions and then thousands of tax-paying voters are laid-off?

No "new" strings to me means, leave the plan as is with no added rules or changes. The airlines "want" the extension but will not admittingly request any more help so they can control the rules and regs. I would even bet the airlines probably asked the unions to request for the extension to help them out. I would even go as far as saying the airlines will want some of the restrictions in place less strict going forward OR they will not take any more assistance and will move forward with their own plans and do the layoffs. The airlines do have a little room to bargain with do we layoff or not. The gov. if in the mood to stop it, would not want a flood of layoffs during this already down time in the economy only to watch it get even worse right before election time.

 

[jimntx]

No "new" strings to me means, leave the plan as is with no added rules or changes. The airlines "want" the extension but will not admittingly request any more help so they can control the rules and regs. I would even bet the airlines probably asked the unions to request for the extension to help them out. I would even go as far as saying the airlines will want some of the restrictions in place less strict going forward OR they will not take any more assistance and will move forward with their own plans and do the layoffs. The airlines do have a little room to bargain with do we layoff or not. The gov. if in the mood to stop it, would not want a flood of layoffs during this already down time in the economy only to watch it get even worse right before election time.

Seems to me that staffing issues are strictly in the companies' court after 10/1/20. Once the mandatory "no-layoffs" period expires, the companies can do whatever the hell they think will do the company the most good. I doubt they will care much what the public thinks. The number furloughed/laid-off/terminated is not enough to alter the voting except in limited areas--Tulsa, DFW, IAH, etc.. There will be a lot of IGM sentiments floating around. (IGM=I got mine.) This is also translatable in the English to be "Boy, I sure am glad I don't work for one of those airlines."

Yes, that's right...when things look blackest, I'm always there with the voice of doom. How perceptive of you to notice. LOL

 

[CremaDiLimone]

A big question about this buyout is how it would be effected by a bankruptcy. It looks very tempting for guys in their 60s, but if a bankruptcy would cancel it then it's a suckers play.

very true, the captain steering the ship believes that BK can be averted by buyouts..so, we'll see.

regardless, it's a great deal for those around 60, who have some money and a robust 401k. i would think they would take the chance and leave.

 

[1986Mekanic]

Rode a plane today, it was packed... All this bk talk is hogwash...

 

[swamt]

Rode a plane today, it was packed... All this bk talk is hogwash...

Oh C'mon man. You cannot judge if a co. will or will not go BK just by the packed aircraft you were on. Sure, the very aircraft you flew on was packed, but, the airlines are still 70-85% lower in flights than what they were at at end of 2019. And with the latest C-19 uptick they are getting a bit worse and lowering or slowing that little uptick in passengers numbers we all just experienced. If no more assistance comes from the gov with that extension, I would expect to someone go the BK route. They say American is the prime one to file with its debt and balance sheets, however, I am thinking some of the smaller airlines will be forced into BK unless they are picked up by larger airlines by merging or purchasing.