American looking to "right-size" the company and staffing levels for the Fall and 2021

[AMFAinMIAMI]

I suspect that 18% is after voluntary retirements. I've heard that volunteers have been averaging 10-12% depending on the workgroup, which correlates to that 18% getting WARN letters.

EOlesen;

I guess then really soon the members of M&R should be receiving the warn letters as well. IMHO AA will package out the number needed, since it makes the most business sense. Reducing the bump and roll, and financial cost of a layoff. The TWU looks at things short term AA is projecting out future costs.

For ALL the M&R lets get the cards we need to remove the TWU/IAM from our class and craft and move forward.

 

[swamt]

let's see...

delta had about 14,500 pilots as of may 2020. they just mailed layoff warning letters to 2,558 pilots.

that's about 18% of it's pilots. we're starting to get an idea of the numbers.

Yes. Rumors at my airline were that the co. wanted somewhere around 12-14% to take the VSP and leaves, so far only 7% have agreed to some kind of leave. If that remains the numbers I would think a 7-10% might come as the amount to get letters, IF, SWA still has too in the fall. In hopes of two things; 1- enough employees take the leaves, and 2- enough passengers are coming back in large enough numbers to hopefully stay away from the involuntary separations. But it doesn't appear to be getting that way. Expecting the worse, hoping for the best. Prepare-prepare-prepare.

 

[Rogallo]

For ALL the M&R lets get the cards we need to remove the TWU/IAM from our class and craft and move forward.

So where might those intellectually challenged individuals be that haven't signed a card?

 

[CremaDiLimone]

I suspect that 18% is after voluntary retirements. I've heard that volunteers have been averaging 10-12% depending on the workgroup, which correlates to that 18% getting WARN letters.

agreed, every airline will have it's own science.

we don't know how many pilots at aa, at ua, etc..took leaves or how many more may take a buyout.

i believe the pilots (at aa) have a very generous voluntary leave package...but the other work groups at aa have nowhere near the same. throw in the fact that aa is on record as saying the pilot layoff numbers will be purposely kept lower..i'd say that aa's non-pilot layoff percentages will be 5%-10% higher than the pilot numbers.

as one of my angry crew chiefs with 40+ years says - there will be a lot of sad faces around here in september.

 

[dfw gen]

I listened to Parkers speech on the Town Hall Meeting video, Video 3, 4 min in he starts talking numbers. He also said they have been talking with the unions. Using his numbers of 80,000 he said even with the current reductions, people already taking LOA's and early outs, they still have too many people. Once again taking his numbers he said they have to reduce 30% this fall. Apply 30% to the pilots, F/A's and M&R, the first cutoff date for M&R will be around 4-10-01, the second wave by next summer of 20% is around March 1997. If I am wrong, let me know and where, don't be a dick, there are a lot of people who are scared right now and they have every right to be. The one thing you all need to be worried about is the Bump and roll of layoff, gone are the days of protection and red circling of hubs and bases. Just because you survived the first round, does not mean you will get bumped by someone in the system but, you can bump someone else. welcome to the new AA!

if your talking about the "crew news" i thought he said 1600 pilots but they didnt want to lay pilots off due to training costs. i would also subtract management from those numbers since that was under way already.

 

[dfw gen]

I suspect that 18% is after voluntary retirements. I've heard that volunteers have been averaging 10-12% depending on the workgroup, which correlates to that 18% getting WARN letters.

makes sense

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

So where might those intellectually challenged individuals be that haven't signed a card?

Rogallo;

To answer your question there are approx 120 of them between DWH and DFW, 110 @ LAX,
300-400 @CLT, 100+ @ ORD ??? @ PHX off the top of my head. This does not include the Title 2 guys, So if you can ALL talk with those guys as well we can get this done. We need less than 1000 cards as of a week or so ago.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Time is Running Out! Act Now and Urge Congress to Safeguard Aviation Jobs
:

TWU members have all put their lives at risk to serve the public during this pandemic. Federal funding is running out and our jobs are at risk of disappearing if Congress doesn't extend worker protections in the airline industry before October 1. The CARES Act helped save transportation workers jobs, wages, and benefits by prohibiting involuntary furloughs or wage reductions at airlines through the Payroll Support Program (PSP). It is time to ask your elected officials to renew this program and pass a clean extension of the Payroll Support Program (PSP) through March 31, 2021. Without an extension of the PSP grant job program, tens of thousands of aviation jobs will be lost before the end of the year.

TWU members cannot afford a delay. American Airlines has already announced that it is planning to furlough more than 8,000 flight attendants on October 1. As our economy struggles to recover from the effects of the ongoing pandemic, more jobs will be lost if we don't take action now. Congress must act fast to save OUR jobs before time runs out.

Take action and send a letter to Congress today.

Use link bellow,

https://actionnetwork.org/letters/t...-and-urge-congress-to-safeguard-aviation-jobs

The TWU has sent this out to its members, My question is since we are an ASSociation why not say the ASSociation members?

With all the BS about being part of the AFLCIO and both the IAM & TWU being so BIG and powerful why don't they spend some of the DUES we all give them and put some $$$ where their mouth is. They talk a good game but NEVER have shown that they really care about the members of the TWU that are part of the ATD.

Maybe this is just a delay tactic they are try to show the company that they are attempting to get their members to get the government to continue to cover our pay checks until they work out some back door deal which helps AA and them. NOT US

So LETS SIGN AMFA CARDS AND REMOVE THESE INDUSTRIAL UNION SCAMMERS FROM OUR M&R CLASS AND CRAFT.....

 

[Rogallo]

The TWU has sent this out to its members, My question is since we are an ASSociation why not say the ASSociation members?

Sito didn't give it his Okie Dokie!

 

[CremaDiLimone]

a small write-up today about united/layoffs.

here's what an IAM big-shooter for united said:

Labor unions in the United workforce said they are aware of the potential for job losses. Jonathan Battaglia, spokesman for the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers, said, “Potential furloughs in October have been widely known by our members since the CARES Act was passed in March. We are working to secure an additional six months of federal payroll support that would extend into 2021.”

The Association of Flight Attendants said last week that workers at American and Delta airlines have begun receiving WARN notices. It has issued a similar call for a six-month extension of federal aid.

United and other major carriers have been offering workers early retirement packages or voluntary furloughs, often under the terms of union contracts, to reduce payrolls without resorting to layoffs. In its offer to managers, United is trying to get some to leave before Oct. 1, offering them severance and extended health coverage that won’t be available if they are later laid off.

looks like iam at united and F/A union for aa are expecting and bracing for layoffs. no mention of concessions, in fact, the twu was one union out of many who wrote an open letter about F/As and no concessions.

https://www.deltaafa.org/news/flight-attendant-unions-unite-against-concessions

As we move forward, the undersigned union leaders, on behalf of tens of thousands of Flight Attendants, are committed to ensuring that Flight Attendants do not bear the brunt of the crisis. Our wages, healthcare benefits, work rules and job protections are not the problem in this industry. The problem is one of demand which will only be resolved when the flying public feels safe to travel. Concessions cannot and will not resolve the crisis in the industry. We are putting management on notice: don’t even think about it.

looks like all are pinning their hopes on a second package for the airlines. still have about 2 months. i have no doubt the govt. would be willing to help, but the ability to layoff is the hurdle.

 

[ALUS78]

EOlesen;

I guess then really soon the members of M&R should be receiving the warn letters as well. IMHO AA will package out the number needed, since it makes the most business sense. Reducing the bump and roll, and financial cost of a layoff. The TWU looks at things short term AA is projecting out future costs.

For ALL the M&R lets get the cards we need to remove the TWU/IAM from our class and craft and move forward.

I really dont understand your thinking.Has your workgroup been packaged out in the past? You make it sound like your workgroup will be the only group spared from layoffs. Regrettably I doubt you're right.

 

[eolesen]

Personal opinion (lest anyone think this is a management talking point...): Unions gotta do what they've gotta do, but I hope the airlines don't join in and lobby for an extension. We've had five months as an industry to get prepared for October 1, and extending "protections" will only hurt airlines in the long run.

It's looking more and more like a two year recovery for air travel, even if other jobs are returning at record numbers. Yeah, it will suck for those impacted, but if you want a company to come back to, it's time to cut people and adapt to the "new normal".

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

I really dont understand your thinking.Has your workgroup been packaged out in the past? You make it sound like your workgroup will be the only group spared from layoffs. Regrettably I doubt you're right.

ALUS78

Yes they have given packages to the M&R work group in the past. I don't know much of anything nor do I keep track of what's going on with the other work groups. So when I make a statement I ref. M&R. this way its about my group and I don't get any remarks from the peanut gallery how I don't know what I am talking about. If they give something to the Fleet/ramp or stores what ever it is has nothing to do with my work group and does not affect any one in M&R as far as remaining on payroll.

When I say making business sense the training that a new Mechanics gets to be able to do what is required of him/her by AA although NOT Good takes time. So packaging out guys that are ready to go, cutting cost that way is better for AA than to conduct a layoff.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Personal opinion (lest anyone think this is a management talking point...): Unions gotta do what they've gotta do, but I hope the airlines don't join in and lobby for an extension. We've had five months as an industry to get prepared for October 1, and extending "protections" will only hurt airlines in the long run.

It's looking more and more like a two year recovery for air travel, even if other jobs are returning at record numbers. Yeah, it will suck for those impacted, but if you want a company to come back to, it's time to cut people and adapt to the "new normal".

EOlson

If you have some time within the airlines what I am saying is usually what happens, when the airlines want to cut they do it at the end of the yr this gives them end of physical yr and end of calendar yr for accounting. They also don't have next yrs medical to payout and other costs for each employee that is on payroll as of Jan 1st. Getting some type of assistance after the new yr might be better for the employees in the long run.

"TRUE" cutting at that time of yr is BAD for those who have not managed personal finances. This CV19 has not helped either. We in the airline industry are lucky that we did get something to insure wages through Oct 1.

Having to repeatedly help a company is NOT the employees job. The executives make the decisions that affect long term financial health of any company.
Just you say they let people go well some time you have to LET THE COMPANY GO. That could be the new Normal.

 

[swamt]

agreed, every airline will have it's own science.

we don't know how many pilots at aa, at ua, etc..took leaves or how many more may take a buyout.

i believe the pilots (at aa) have a very generous voluntary leave package...but the other work groups at aa have nowhere near the same. throw in the fact that aa is on record as saying the pilot layoff numbers will be purposely kept lower..i'd say that aa's non-pilot layoff percentages will be 5%-10% higher than the pilot numbers.

as one of my angry crew chiefs with 40+ years says - there will be a lot of sad faces around here in september.

Indeed. Just as I got done reading your post it came across the local news that;

"United is looking to layoff as many as 10's of thousands of employees as soon as they can, and that date is Oct. 1st when they are no longer under the PPP gov assist. provisions."

I bet we will see other airlines chime in, in hopes to get the gov's attention of how dire it will get with the airlines if they don't step in and help with their vote to extend thru March 2021. Unions are also starting to throw out media releases to help spark up some attention as well, hopefully it will strike the gov to help out. I do agree with another extension to pass, some folks just live paycheck to paycheck and haven't been able to save the amount they really need for the upcoming layoffs for prob. around 2-3 years at best.

a small write-up today about united/layoffs.

here's what an IAM big-shooter for united said:




looks like iam at united and F/A union for aa are expecting and bracing for layoffs. no mention of concessions, in fact, the twu was one union out of many who wrote an open letter about F/As and no concessions.

https://www.deltaafa.org/news/flight-attendant-unions-unite-against-concessions



looks like all are pinning their hopes on a second package for the airlines. still have about 2 months. i have no doubt the govt. would be willing to help, but the ability to layoff is the hurdle.

The airlines might get some help but, I would not put it pass them to be aloud a bit more less language on the layoffs and furloughs, otherwise they can just say no to the extension and go straight to the layoffs.

EOlson

If you have some time within the airlines what I am saying is usually what happens, when the airlines want to cut they do it at the end of the yr this gives them end of physical yr and end of calendar yr for accounting. They also don't have next yrs medical to payout and other costs for each employee that is on payroll as of Jan 1st. Getting some type of assistance after the new yr might be better for the employees in the long run.

"TRUE" cutting at that time of yr is BAD for those who have not managed personal finances. This CV19 has not helped either. We in the airline industry are lucky that we did get something to insure wages through Oct 1.

Having to repeatedly help a company is NOT the employees job. The executives make the decisions that affect long term financial health of any company.
Just you say they let people go well some time you have to LET THE COMPANY GO. That could be the new Normal.

Agree with ya. I don't agree with E's theory of just let'em go. I say extend at least until March 2021. We will see what the gov does with this vote coming up.