American looking to "right-size" the company and staffing levels for the Fall and 2021

[V.O. Reason]

I think what is being requested by the unions from the feds is pay guarantees. Not more loans as such.
I feel since payroll is such a huge expense this could be helpful in the long term viability of the airlines.
I think we could see an extension of this but possibly only till the end of the year.
Layoffs most likely will still occur but maybe not till end of year.
But who knows, congress has been very quite on this

 

[CremaDiLimone]

i don't argue. if the govt. picked up labor costs for all the u.s. airlines for another 3 months, last quarter of 2020...that's prob around $8 billion-$10 billion.

nothing. a drop in the bucket.

but, then every other industry will ask for the same.

the loans are also good. they are much cheaper than $$ from any private financier. only wall street has an issue, bk vs. diluted stock. can't win.

personally, i think the airlines want to cut heads.

 

[dfw gen]

i don't argue. if the govt. picked up labor costs for all the u.s. airlines for another 3 months, last quarter of 2020...that's prob around $8 billion-$10 billion.

nothing. a drop in the bucket.

but, then every other industry will ask for the same.

the loans are also good. they are much cheaper than $$ from any private financier. only wall street has an issue, bk vs. diluted stock. can't win.

personally, i think the airlines want to cut heads.

Keep in mind they have never realized tge full potential of the "synergies" of the merger. I.e. eliminate redundancies. In the real world job cuts

 

[1AA]

Are we next?
Are we right around the corner?
Airline industry, monkey see, monkey do.

I hope not. Let's wish for the best for AA and the other airlines in this shared sacrifice industry.

https://apnews.com/b8ec22960abe7615...n=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=AP

 

[V.O. Reason]

i don't argue. if the govt. picked up labor costs for all the u.s. airlines for another 3 months, last quarter of 2020...that's prob around $8 billion-$10 billion.

nothing. a drop in the bucket.

but, then every other industry will ask for the same.

the loans are also good. they are much cheaper than $$ from any private financier. only wall street has an issue, bk vs. diluted stock. can't win.

personally, i think the airlines want to cut heads.

Yes I think this is true and there is no doubt AA needs to reduce headcount. Something it has not done since the merger
There are so many issues with this virus and how it’s effected so much.
I just hope we will get through it without bankruptcy

 

[robbedagain]

With UA and DL now reducing Aug flight schedule and w UA stating furloughs up to 36000 does not bode well. Coupled with European travel ban on US for now I can't help but wonder how deep will the cuts b . How much smaller will the airline industry be. Will airlines survive. It's all the unknowns yet with ups n down . Scary times

 

[V.O. Reason]

With UA and DL now reducing Aug flight schedule and w UA stating furloughs up to 36000 does not bode well. Coupled with European travel ban on US for now I can't help but wonder how deep will the cuts b . How much smaller will the airline industry be. Will airlines survive. It's all the unknowns yet with ups n down . Scary times

UA has bigger issues because of the travel restrictions imposed by the NE state governors, they have no idea how much these restrictions will harm their economies more than has already happened .
DL is more connected to Europe than even AA and thus it’s hurting them more as well.
AA doesn’t have these same issues but they do have them but not as severe in my opinion.
Yes we have to get smaller but maybe not to the extent the other 2 will need to

 

[dfw gen]

9 months pay and benefits. waive any early penalties to retirement i.e. the 3% reduction per year. access to an additional 30 months of medical at current employee costs. that would induce me to retire.

 

[T5towbar]

Are we next?
Are we right around the corner?
Airline industry, monkey see, monkey do.

I hope not. Let's wish for the best for AA and the other airlines in this shared sacrifice industry.

https://apnews.com/b8ec22960abe7615...n=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=AP

Yeah. Things don't look good at all.
Just got the news from our managers and they gave is the numbers in our division.

5900 for the ramp. Out about 14441 on the current seniority list. If my math is correct that's a little over 40%.
This is supposed to be worst case scenarios, but WARN letters will be sent out to required states: NJ; NY; IL; CA starting today. (so my friends will probably know by Friday if they are affected or not) The IAM will notify the rest of the affected within 30 days, if I'm correct. But they will probably send them out later, because they will probably to come up with something, to keep up the dues flow. IMHO, the company will ask for concessions (before and after) for the survivors if things don't get any better. Plus next year is a contract year. I wonder if some of the AGC's take concessions? (just being facetious........) And I know that no one in their right mind (due to past history) will vote for reduced hours to make the job like UPS. Plus it will make the people who will be recalled jobs even worse.

My guess is next year, I'm not looking forward to a pay raise. The thing to do is to protect what we have presently, and get back some of the work that the vendors are doing, especially in cargo. We can't give up things that will make the job worse and for those who are recalled once things get better. And I think this year is totally shot, and I don't know how things will respond in 2021. I just keep coming to work, wearing my mask, drinking plenty of fluids and keeping myself healthy....or try to. The only byproduct of this Covid19 nonsense is that I'm gaining a but of weight due to inactivity. I'm only doing half the flights I'm usually doing around this time. (less flights - less heavy bags) The other time I'm home, and can't hit the gym or exercise like I should.

Stay safe out there.........

 

[dfw gen]

Yeah. Things don't look good at all.
Just got the news from our managers and they gave is the numbers in our division.

5900 for the ramp. Out about 14441 on the current seniority list. If my math is correct that's a little over 40%.
This is supposed to be worst case scenarios, but WARN letters will be sent out to required states: NJ; NY; IL; CA starting today. (so my friends will probably know by Friday if they are affected or not) The IAM will notify the rest of the affected within 30 days, if I'm correct. But they will probably send them out later, because they will probably to come up with something, to keep up the dues flow. IMHO, the company will ask for concessions (before and after) for the survivors if things don't get any better. Plus next year is a contract year. I wonder if some of the AGC's take concessions? (just being facetious........) And I know that no one in their right mind (due to past history) will vote for reduced hours to make the job like UPS. Plus it will make the people who will be recalled jobs even worse.

My guess is next year, I'm not looking forward to a pay raise. The thing to do is to protect what we have presently, and get back some of the work that the vendors are doing, especially in cargo. We can't give up things that will make the job worse and for those who are recalled once things get better. And I think this year is totally shot, and I don't know how things will respond in 2021. I just keep coming to work, wearing my mask, drinking plenty of fluids and keeping myself healthy....or try to. The only byproduct of this Covid19 nonsense is that I'm gaining a but of weight due to inactivity. I'm only doing half the flights I'm usually doing around this time. (less flights - less heavy bags) The other time I'm home, and can't hit the gym or exercise like I should.

Stay safe out there.........

I assume you are united, not AA?

 

[Kev3188]

AA doesn’t have these same issues but they do have them but not as severe in my opinion.

AA just has hubs in 3 of the worst-hit states in the U.S (4 if you want to count LAX). Not as severe? I guess we'll see.

 

[T5towbar]

I assume you are united, not AA?

I'm UA. But I frequently post on this forum since most of us like to communicate with each other from other airlines, and compare notes and share info.

 

[V.O. Reason]

AA just has hubs in 3 of the worst-hit states in the U.S (4 if you want to count LAX). Not as severe? I guess we'll see.

I’ve not seen a big change in loads into and out of DFW, with the spikes.
CLT and ORD flights also loads are on the uptick
I’ve seen a slight decrease in loads going to the NE since the restrictions have gone into place.
Guess will see if the trend continues

 

[CremaDiLimone]

9 months pay and benefits. waive any early penalties to retirement i.e. the 3% reduction per year. access to an additional 30 months of medical at current employee costs. that would induce me to retire.

this is exactly what we should be talking about.

- what's the difference of 3 months pay for such an important decision? ok, 3 months is 3 months..but, if you're on the fence to leave, 3 months pay shouldn't be the tipping point. if it is, maybe someone shouldn't be leaving.

- i thought the company got rid of the -3% for every year under 62 or was it 60, once pensions got frozen? correct me if i'm wrong.

- i do believe right now they have been offering a bridge to medicare - with your sick time. some have a lot of sk time, others, not so much. there is no bridge to medicare without using sk time?

definitely believe they will get more takers if the company offers 9 months pay, 36 month/3 year bridge to medicare and no penalties of age for drawing on your pension.

the medical is crucial. some still work because their wife is unemployed/no health insurance and they need to stay and cover their spouse.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

I’ve not seen a big change in loads into and out of DFW, with the spikes.
CLT and ORD flights also loads are on the uptick
I’ve seen a slight decrease in loads going to the NE since the restrictions have gone into place.
Guess will see if the trend continues

i believe this recent spike is the killer nail. it will be a major hit, as if the airlines haven't taken enough. do i believe everyone who travels to ord or lga will self-quarantine for 14 days? no. but it will discourage travel.

intl travel is shot for the rest of the year.

no upside anywhere for 2020.

we'll need to rely on therapeutics and eventually, a vaccine. until then, forget it.