American looking to "right-size" the company and staffing levels for the Fall and 2021

[1AA]

agreed.

the post is very ominous with this:



the author of the article wrote this, quoting parker:



creative solutions that involve voluntary leaves and early-outs.

didn't say anything that involves union wage/benefit concessions.

i can't say i know what will happen. no one can. i wouldn't doubt the company's dream is cutting 10% of labor costs on top of layoffs. that can't happen without two things - the assoc. agreeing to a vote on concessions and the workers voting that in.

i think the post has more to do with amfa vs twu.

It happened in 2003. Paycuts and layoffs.

 

[ALUS78]

I’m not naive, but I wonder if AA is more interested in using VLOAs, early outs, etc. first.

In an interview Vasa Raju basically said the “old way” (my term) of doing things was out the window, if for no other reason than they need an engaged workforce to recover from this.

I wonder why they didnt get "creative" with the managers they just laid off ? Nope, layoffs coming it's going to be hard to get concessions and it makes no business sense to keep people working when there's no work.

 

[Kev3188]

He didn't say AA wanted to keep everyone on active payroll, only that the company was serious about using every other option available before invol furloughs. Take it for what it's worth...

 

[1AA]

He didn't say AA wanted to keep everyone on active payroll, only that the company was serious about using every other option available before invol furloughs. Take it for what it's worth...

When he said he is willing to get creative with the unions to avoid 20,000 layoffs that says plenty if you follow the history of the TWU vs AA.
2003 all over again has become top concern for union members.

 

[swamt]

I’m not naive, but I wonder if AA is more interested in using VLOAs, early outs, etc. first.

In an interview Vasa Raju basically said the “old way” (my term) of doing things was out the window, if for no other reason than they need an engaged workforce to recover from this.

Kev., I read this para as they will look at the voluntary leaves and early outs prior to laying off. Also noted is the comment of no longer will it be last in first out. If your unionized it will be per the contract which in most all cases are done by seniority. Maybe he was talking about management and support staff when he said that part.

" We are committed to resetting the airline using a different playbook than the one of past crises where last in, first out furloughs were the expected result. We continue to work with our union partners to find creative solutions that involve voluntary leaves and early-out program.”

An engaged work force? Thats funny, took them 5 years to negotiate a contract during the most profitable period in aviation history. Wonde how long it will take to help this time?

5 days with the asso. still there. Wasn't the last concessions ask done in weeks as well?

 

[swamt]

It happened in 2003. Paycuts and layoffs.

When he said he is willing to get creative with the unions to avoid 20,000 layoffs that says plenty if you follow the history of the TWU vs AA.
2003 all over again has become top concern for union members.

That's how I read his words. Yes, I too smell 2003 all over again. Forgive my bad memory (almost 20 years ago) wasn't there an agreement by the TWU for cuts in pay to avoid layoffs, they still laid off and they still filed BK and again went after more cuts?? For some reason I remember employees getting hit twice on the concessions being agreed to by the union, now the asso. Maybe I am wrong on this, been a while.

 

[1AA]

We may have forgotten what happened just prior to the May 2003 draconian concessions the TWU gave the company without a revote when the terms changed. Our own Jim Little sold out the membership in his arguments in a federal court in NYC. So here it is. Some of the events. Time to brush off the 2003 dust and wake up to the reality of the 2020 retake part two.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10506789815359000

Quote from a Forbes article.

"American was able to avoid bankruptcy by gaining painful concessions from its unions back in 2003. Employee salaries were slashed between 16% and 23%, while thousands of employees were laid off. The unions at American figured that taking a big hit on their terms was better than having possibly larger cuts forced on them while in bankruptcy."

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

What's Really amazing is as I read thru some of the latest post here it seems as though a lot of you are LQQKING forward to layoffs.
For Some it seems you are even hoping it happens. Looking at the past and saying see AA & the TWU are going to get us again.

We can effect what is going to happen within the M&R class and craft. You can sit back and let the Association make up some BS and cut a deal with AA or you can pull up your BIG boy pants and help us make a change that could be for the Better.

We are less than 1000 cards from being able to give our cards to the NMB, which will give us a vote. So instead of the doom and gloom help us get the cards required to move on.

 

[ALUS78]

When he said he is willing to get creative with the unions to avoid 20,000 layoffs that says plenty if you follow the history of the TWU vs AA.
2003 all over again has become top concern for union members.

I'm US so I dont know much about 2003,but were they shrinking like they are doing now? If the union agrees to concessions it's on them I wouldn't blame the company. Of course they want concessions, what company wouldn't

 

[dfw gen]

I'm US so I dont know much about 2003,but were they shrinking like they are doing now? If the union agrees to concessions it's on them I wouldn't blame the company. Of course they want concessions, what company wouldn't

If the twu has any say in concessions, watch out if the company asks for 10% the twu will settle for 17%. With no snap back of course. The associations concern is dues collections, they dont live under the concessions

 

[Rogallo]

BOHICA!

 

[swamt]

We may have forgotten what happened just prior to the May 2003 draconian concessions the TWU gave the company without a revote when the terms changed. Our own Jim Little sold out the membership in his arguments in a federal court in NYC. So here it is. Some of the events. Time to brush off the 2003 dust and wake up to the reality of the 2020 retake part two.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10506789815359000

Quote from a Forbes article.

"American was able to avoid bankruptcy by gaining painful concessions from its unions back in 2003. Employee salaries were slashed between 16% and 23%, while thousands of employees were laid off. The unions at American figured that taking a big hit on their terms was better than having possibly larger cuts forced on them while in bankruptcy."

So I was wrong about a second hit or did another hit come after they filed for BK? Was there another round of job cuts or was it just continuing the job cuts after BK?
Also so I believe the union said they had to agree to the cuts in pay in order to stop the jobs losses (save jobs) but they still cut jobs too so maybe that is where I am thinking of a second hit after the pay cuts came layoffs after BK filing.
However it happened, I hope these guys come to their senses and get a class and craft union in there so the mechanics can get a better representation. It is really going to suck big time if the asso. is still representing when this fall comes. Matter fact, I still hoping you all do it prior to the end of summer, it really needs to be done now before this asso takes their own action agreeing again with the company just because the card drive is so close to a possible vote. Think about it guys, sign them cards so you guys control what the union does and doesn't do.

Hope everyone had a happy and safe 4th. I know it's off topic a little but this is just the right time. This guy does a good job on his guitar with the National Anthem, just take a look at the size of that American Flag from 1776.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/georgia-man-plays-national-anthem-173518168.html

 

[CremaDiLimone]

It happened in 2003. Paycuts and layoffs.

yes, i was there.

totally different now. there is no sword of damocles swinging. the pensions are frozen. threat to file for bk? should we give concessions to avoid bk? go ahead, file.

back then, every other legacy carrier had filed and there were many who feared for their $2,400 month pension getting terminated. maybe they voted for concessions..

i get it. you want amfa.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

If the twu has any say in concessions, watch out if the company asks for 10% the twu will settle for 17%. With no snap back of course. The associations concern is dues collections, they dont live under the concessions

the company can ask, doesn't mean they can impose
concessions.

the us air pensions are shot, and those of us from laa have what to lose?? frozen pensions becoming terminated pensions?

no concessions. file bk if you have to.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

I'm US so I dont know much about 2003,but were they shrinking like they are doing now? If the union agrees to concessions it's on them I wouldn't blame the company. Of course they want concessions, what company wouldn't

if amfa gets voted in, no more posts like that.

nowhere in that article did it say parker/aa are considering concessions. play on words to stir up amfa support.

i'm not an AMT. i have no stance one way or another. i will say the twu laid down (seniority issues/contract) for the iam after the merger and based on that, i'd support a card drive. the junior AMTs i do know, tell me they will not sacrifice their jobs so top 50% of AMTs can get a $3/hr raise.

i don't say anything one way or another to them - though i understand their reasoning, lower amounts of AMTs/ratio per aircraft at southwest.

those that push for amfa need to convince the junior AMTs, not me or you, about amfa vs. twu.