American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[Rogallo]

If it wasn’t for the merger and the Association, you wouldn’t have gotten a 24% raise and you’d just be starting Section 6 Negotiations.

Let me be the first to say welcome and give you your first Disagree

 

[WeAAsles]

I can answer the question in the 40s to early 70s unions were powerhouses. Until inflation hit. The TWU IAM , Teamsters did not sell out the Airlines. President Carter and the democrats sold out Airline labor with the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978, and bankruptcy and failure followed after that.

That was then, this is now. Since 2013 the New American Airlines has made multiple Billions of Dollars in Profit. They have added on to their debt yes but that debt was all spent on Capital improvements including the lease and purchase of new more fuel efficient Aircraft (Crema can cover Jet Fuel better than me)

And on top of all of that Profit since 2013 they issued their first share repurchase program of 300 Mllion that has now grown to $11 Billion with $2 Billion still authorizes. Currently that money has been ill spent as it hasn’t done anything to raise the share price anyway which is the normal intention rewarding those still holding shares.

But with all of that we absolutely aren’t and don’t need to be in Concessionary Bargaining mode or train of thought. Industry consolidation that should have been completed 20 years ago was completed in 2013 and since then we’ve seen nothing but fortunes for the 3 last Legacy Airlines left standing.

There is ZERO need for us to sell out the future to reward ourselves even more today. Financially in wages we were restored at AA in October 2016 in average 24% pay raises and then another 2.1% in 2017.

We’re not exactly overal suffering here.

 

[AANOTOK]

I'll answer your question with a question.

Were there opportunities to do any selling out back then?

Let me answer this one...no, you would have found yourself toothless, two arms in a sling or worse, ordered by the leaders. Now, your leaders can be the ones doing the sellout. No one above them to do the dirty work.

 

[AANOTOK]

That was then, this is now. Since 2013 the New American Airlines has made multiple Billions of Dollars in Profit. They have added on to their debt yes but that debt was all spent on Capital improvements including the lease and purchase of new more fuel efficient Aircraft (Crema can cover Jet Fuel better than me)

And on top of all of that Profit since 2013 they issued their first share repurchase program of 300 Mllion that has now grown to $11 Billion with $2 Billion still authorizes. Currently that money has been ill spent as it hasn’t done anything to raise the share price anyway which is the normal intention rewarding those still holding shares.

But with all of that we absolutely aren’t and don’t need to be in Concessionary Bargaining mode or train of thought. Industry consolidation that should have been completed 20 years ago was completed in 2013 and since then we’ve seen nothing but fortunes for the 3 last Legacy Airlines left standing.

There is ZERO need for us to sell out the future to reward ourselves even more today. Financially in wages we were restored at AA in October 2016 in average 24% pay raises and then another 2.1% in 2017.

We’re not exactly overal suffering here.

What, no page consuming photo of Samuelsen

 

[WeAAsles]

I'll answer your question with a question.

Were there opportunities to do any selling out back then?

So you are saying that the Generation who fought the Axis forces in WWII would have gladly sold the future out if sub contractors existed?

So I guess then you are ok with me Deicing Planes, Break riding and maybe seeking other work that isn’t tied to any restrictions keeping it in your toolbox?

Your comment makes it sound to me as if you just can’t wait to do to the next guy what was done to you since Airline Deregulation?

 

[WeAAsles]

What, no page consuming photo of Samuelsen

Do you like the smaller version instead? Did you go to Pad Mary and meet Samuelsen, Garcia and Peterson to give them your opinions what we should do?

 

[AANOTOK]

Do you like the smaller version instead? Did you go to Pad Mary and meet Samuelsen, Garcia and Peterson to give them your opinions what we should do?

View attachment 13988

better

 

[AANOTOK]

Why don't you ask Alex or Gary if that question was presented to them by someone. Samuelsen doesn't want to be bothered. W, what are you, the TWU/Association monitor. You sure have a lot of questions for members for someone who is nothing more than a dues paying member. Although you may be channeling 700's questions...oh wait, maybe not.

 

[AANOTOK]

View attachment 13989
Why do you disagree? AA was under no obligation to give you a raise and your CBA wasn’t amendable till September of 2018.

So it's your opinion Horton and the stand alone plan would not have provided us with a raise. Or without the Association we would have been left high and dry.

 

[Rogallo]

So you are saying that the Generation who fought the Axis forces in WWII would have gladly sold the future out if sub contractors existed?

So I guess then you are ok with me Deicing Planes, Break riding and maybe seeking other work that isn’t tied to any restrictions keeping it in your toolbox?

Your comment makes it sound to me as if you just can’t wait to do to the next guy what was done to you since Airline Deregulation?

Wow, another analogy from out in left field. I think we should call you "What If Weezy"

I honestly could care less to deice or brake ride.

You sure have the uncanny ability to read a lot into things!

 

[WeAAsles]

Why don't you ask Alex or Gary if that question was presented to them by someone. Samuelsen doesn't want to be bothered. W, what are you, the TWU/Association monitor. You sure have a lot of questions for members for someone who is nothing more than a dues paying member. Although you may be channeling 700's questions...oh wait, maybe not.

Ok you’re back to attacking again. I’ve actually never had the opportunity yet to personally meet Brother Samuelsen but how would you know he wouldn’t want to be bothered hearing you out if you weren’t and apparently you weren’t at Pad Mary to ask him?

Besides those guys technically represent 30,000 Members (IAM represents us as well with the Association) I’m sure they’re well aware that there are plenty of people out there that don’t think the same way they do.

From what I hear though all are Unified in that comment that John Samuelsen said there at Pad Mary.

Seriously though why did you miss it? I would have thought you would have been chomping at the bit for the opportunity to share your opinions.

 

[WeAAsles]

So it's your opinion Horton and the stand alone plan would not have provided us with a raise. Or without the Association we would have been left high and dry.

Horton and the Standalone Plan would not have generated the revenue that the Merger did and every Airline and Wall Street Analyst at the time was saying it. Standalone still would have left USAIRWAYS alive as a competitor which would have left the Industry puzzle incomplete.

And legally because of agreements made by the Creditors we would have remained locked into our agreements because they never would have been made whole like they were when they were issued those AAG shares in exchange for their AAMRQ shares instead of being wiped out.

The Merger of AA and US is the only thing that propelled FSC in the industry to also be made whole in wages (Back to the level we would have been without the 2003 cuts)

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/airlines/2012/05/17/economist-american-airlines-ne

 

[AANOTOK]

Wow, another analogy from out in left field. I think we should call you "What If Weezy"

I honestly could care less to deice or brake ride.

You sure have the uncanny ability to read a lot into things!

The best assuming person I have ever seen.

Ok you’re back to attacking again. I’ve actually never had the opportunity yet to personally meet Brother Samuelsen but how would you know he wouldn’t want to be bothered hearing you out if you weren’t and apparently you weren’t at Pad Mary to ask him?

Besides those guys technically represent 30,000 Members (IAM represents us as well with the Association) I’m sure they’re well aware that there are plenty of people out there that don’t think the same way they do.

From what I hear though all are Unified in that comment that John Samuelsen said there at Pad Mary.

Seriously though why did you miss it? I would have thought you would have been chomping at the bit for the opportunity to share your opinions.

C'mon bro, you are the only one allowed to attack..And again, you're assuming I wasn't there. I told you to ask Alex or Gary if that was presented, but no, you just assume. I can always call a truce, I have one with one of your other buddies. Don't attack me or even respond, I can do the same. You can't!

 

[AANOTOK]

Horton and the Standalone Plan would not have generated the revenue that the Merger did and every Airline and Wall Street Analyst at the time was saying it. Standalone still would have left USAIRWAYS alive as a competitor which would have left the Industry puzzle incomplete.

And legally because of agreements made by the Creditors we would have remained locked into our agreements because they never would have been made whole like they were when they were issued those AAG shares in exchange for their AAMRQ shares instead of being wiped out.

The Merger of AA and US is the only thing that propelled FSC in the industry to also be made whole in wages (Back to the level we would have been without the 2003 cuts)

Well, since he won't respond to me again, that there (your reply) fair enough.

 

[WeAAsles]

C'mon bro, you are the only one allowed to attack..And again, you're assuming I wasn't there. I told you to ask Alex or Gary if that was presented, but no, you just assume. I can always call a truce, I have one with one of your other buddies. Don't attack me or even respond, I can do the same. You can't!

Put down your guard and relax. I just asked you if you were there? Maybe you were, maybe you weren’t? Maybe you were off work, on vacation, working a flight, didn’t know they were there or they weren’t there on your scheduled shift?

They were here in MIA the prior week at the 591 meeting and my idiot friend here in MIA never told me “I thought you knew” People like to assume chit too much sometimes.

BTW ask if what was presented? A concessionary agreement or that some members want to vote on that?