American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[WeAAsles]

Well, since he won't respond to me again, that there (your reply) fair enough.

Please don’t tie me with any other posters. It’s rude and I’m not being rude to you now am I?

Here’s another article on that question though. Plenty more out there in searches.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSBRE97F10020130816

 

[B737 driver]

That was then, this is now. Since 2013 the New American Airlines has made multiple Billions of Dollars in Profit. They have added on to their debt yes but that debt was all spent on Capital improvements including the lease and purchase of new more fuel efficient Aircraft (Crema can cover Jet Fuel better than me)

And on top of all of that Profit since 2013 they issued their first share repurchase program of 300 Mllion that has now grown to $11 Billion with $2 Billion still authorizes. Currently that money has been ill spent as it hasn’t done anything to raise the share price anyway which is the normal intention rewarding those still holding shares.

But with all of that we absolutely aren’t and don’t need to be in Concessionary Bargaining mode or train of thought. Industry consolidation that should have been completed 20 years ago was completed in 2013 and since then we’ve seen nothing but fortunes for the 3 last Legacy Airlines left standing.

There is ZERO need for us to sell out the future to reward ourselves even more today. Financially in wages we were restored at AA in October 2016 in average 24% pay raises and then another 2.1% in 2017.

We’re not exactly overal suffering here.

Well I would say that is management and not labor. So if you feel your union sold you out, you get rid of the people that did it. Since it is almost impossible now days because of apathetic workers to get rid of your union.

 

[WeAAsles]

Wow, another analogy from out in left field. I think we should call you "What If Weezy"

I honestly could care less to deice or brake ride.

You sure have the uncanny ability to read a lot into things!

Hypothetical question then.

Where is your personal line in the sand?

What if you controlled the talks. The Company intends to hire 400 people. Would you suspend that and ship off work for more money for yourself?

If the Company offered you more wages and benefits to shrink not through attrition would you accept?

How far would you cut to gain more wages and benefits if you were cool with the last question?

Again man these are just questions. No one should be afraid of answering a few harmless questions.

 

[WeAAsles]

Well I would say that is management and not labor. So if you feel your union sold you out, you get rid of the people that did it. Since it is almost impossible now days because of apathetic workers to get rid of your union.

I’m sorry but I don’t understand your posting? How does my comments relate to any claim that I feel my Union sold me out?

Actually currently it’s quite the contrary. I’m fine with my Union and have absolutely ZERO interest in getting on a ridiculous waste of time never ending roller coaster ride looking to find someone else.

Frankly and it should be incredibly obvious but I REALLY like my Union.

 

[Vortilon]

Of course we’ll get retro but I’ll ask you now.

What if those Mechanics back in the 40’s through the 70’s thought the same way and left you guys no decent paying jobs to walk into because they sold all of you out back then? (PLEASE ANSWER THIS QUESTION)

View attachment 13987

Let's be real here. Your question on what those guys fought for in those years really isn't quantifiable. What I can point to about my predecessors is the fact that they agreed to - not two, but three different pay scales.
Nobody is advocating a complete sellout as you state.
The TWU track record sucks on job preservation btw.
Company doesn't want facilities maintenance anymore.
In 95, they didn't want building cleaners either, and they are gone.
In a perfect world, all of our maintenance would be in house. Albeit very expensive, but in house.
I'm employed here to make money for myself and family, not to give up pay and benefits for future headcount. Been there done that!

When have we ever got retro?
Do you really think the company is gonna restore my sick bank with 30 days, and make up the losses for 1/2 day pay etc.?
Do you really think the company will compensate us for our 5 missed holidays however long they deem fair?

I don't get the warm fuzzies when I think of the TWU.
In fact, it is embarrassing being represented by them. They are a joke, even in union circles.

Samuelsen inherited 10 pounds of shite in a 5 pound bag.
Oh sure, I'm sure he means well, knows all the tag lines on what to say - rah rah and all that.

We both know the bar will never move as far as he wants it to go.
He knows we are absolutely done excepting less pay and benefits to preserve headcount. That is a non starter!

The NMB will recommend some sort of middle ground for both sides, and hopefully we get a peek.

Until then, we remain stuck in the suck.

 

[Vortilon]

If it wasn’t for the merger and the Association, you wouldn’t have gotten a 24% raise and you’d just be starting Section 6 Negotiations.

Thanks newbie, I needed a good laugh.
That was sarcasm right?

 

[Rogallo]

View attachment 13989
Why do you disagree? AA was under no obligation to give you a raise and your CBA wasn’t amendable till September of 2018.

Thanks newbie, I needed a good laugh.
That was sarcasm right?

Yep, just what we need, another chit stirrer 🙂

 

[WeAAsles]

Let's be real here. Your question on what those guys fought for in those years really isn't quantifiable. What I can point to about my predecessors is the fact that they agreed to - not two, but three different pay scales.
Nobody is advocating a complete sellout as you state.
The TWU track record sucks on job preservation btw.
Company doesn't want facilities maintenance anymore.
In 95, they didn't want building cleaners either, and they are gone.
In a perfect world, all of our maintenance would be in house. Albeit very expensive, but in house.
I'm employed here to make money for myself and family, not to give up pay and benefits for future headcount. Been there done that!

BS MAN!!!! There are more Maintenance (And Related) Jobs at AA then any other Airline out there bar none period and you know it.

And I don’t want to hear you compare yourself to F’n UPS, FedEx or Egyptian Air if they’re the top in the World in PAY. It doesn’t all revolve around just pay and for most of your career compared to your REAL peers DL, UAL, US, TWA, EAL and PanAm you did OK.

But yea the TWU by Comparison to IAM, IBT and AMFA did choose work more over pay. That’s a good damn solid Socialist Union if you ask me.

When have we ever got retro?
Do you really think the company is gonna restore my sick bank with 30 days, and make up the losses for 1/2 day pay etc.?
Do you really think the company will compensate us for our 5 missed holidays however long they deem fair?

I had 7 (That’s right 7) checks dated 12/21/01 that were all retro checks. Remember the 2001 Contract (I don’t give a shite about 2003) we/you got retro.

You’ll get retro. Yea it won’t be on the other stuff but what the hell do you think those signing bonuses are supposed to cover anyway.

I don't get the warm fuzzies when I think of the TWU.
In fact, it is embarrassing being represented by them. They are a joke, even in union circles.

Excuse my NYC attitude but get the F out of here. If they sucked so bad I don’t want to hear one damn excuse cause you stuck around and swam in the manure DIDN'T YA.

You don’t even know crap about Union circles anyway cause you aren’t a Union man. You’re an I want mine now guy. Seriously.

Samuelsen inherited 10 pounds of shite in a 5 pound bag.
Oh sure, I'm sure he means well, knows all the tag lines on what to say - rah rah and all that.

We both know the bar will never move as far as he wants it to go.
He knows we are absolutely done excepting less pay and benefits to preserve headcount. That is a non starter!

The NMB will recommend some sort of middle ground for both sides, and hopefully we get a peek.

Until then, we remain stuck in the suck.

Dude you don’t even know what you will (As a group) or won’t accept as a group cause you ain’t getting anything to vote on any time soon.

BTW Peterson already said that they did offer the Company some concessions on work rules remember. So no it doesn’t sound to me like the Association is being unreasonable. It’s just not as much as the Company wants.

And who knows where the bar will end up or when it will get there? But hey welcome to the Airline Industry Bro. Glad to have you here.

And you ain’t stuck in no suck. Yea you want more than you got right now and there’s nothing wrong with that, but you ain’t doin bad and you absolutely ain’t stuck in no suck.

That would be a homeless Meth addict who’s stuck in the suck.

Luv ya bro. Ride on.

 

[B737 driver]

I’m sorry but I don’t understand your posting? How does my comments relate to any claim that I feel my Union sold me out?

Actually currently it’s quite the contrary. I’m fine with my Union and have absolutely ZERO interest in getting on a ridiculous waste of time never ending roller coaster ride looking to find someone else.

Frankly and it should be incredibly obvious but I REALLY like my Union.

That wasn't too you, it was to the people who blame the association.

 

[WeAAsles]

That wasn't too you, it was to the people who blame the association.

Not knocking what you got right now driver but I challenge any one of these guys to find me an airline that in the last 10 years has Negotiated a AMT agreement that didn’t take at least 5 years?

IAM at US didn’t get one until 2014.
IBT agreements were all around 5 years.
AMFA over 6.
TWU/IAM over 3 now for a JCBA. (Actually CBA’s we’re only at really 5 months now)

 

[WeAAsles]

Yep, just what we need, another chit stirrer 🙂

Hey Rog you know what I honestly can’t stand about your Groups. It’s how readily it seems you all are to throw each other under the bus. You guys particularly in Line and OH really can’t stand each other. Facilities and Automotive are looked on like some lout that snuck in the back of the Country club.

I’m always beyond ecstatic that Fleet is not part of your Class and Craft cause a lot of people in your Group would stab us in the back in a Heartbeat.

That’s my opinion and how I “generally” see you guys.

Line should vote seperatly for Line
OH should for OH
Facilities for Facilities and
Automotive for Automotive
Etc.

You guys can’t really be trusted to do the right thing and take care of each other.

Again my opinion.

 

[B737 driver]

Not knocking what you got right now driver but I challenge any one of these guys to find me an airline that in the last 10 years has Negotiated a AMT agreement that didn’t take at least 5 years?

IAM at US didn’t get one until 2014.
IBT agreements were all around 5 years.
AMFA over 6.
TWU/IAM over 3 now for a JCBA. (Actually CBA’s we’re only at really 5 months now)

I guess that's what made me mad about my counterparts, that AMFA was so wonderful, and all the other Unions were bad. We are no better or worse, negotiations 5 years or more for maintenance is the new norm.

 

[WeAAsles]

I guess that's what made me mad about my counterparts, that AMFA was so wonderful, and all the other Unions were bad. We are no better or worse, negotiations 5 years or more for maintenance is the new norm.

Same crap except the difference now for AMFA and hopefully it makes a difference is you’re not alone and it looks like you have a ton of other Unions support.

And even though I know IBT is your weapon of choice they would be in the same boat.

 

[B737 driver]

Same crap except the difference now for AMFA and hopefully it makes a difference is you’re not alone and it looks like you have a ton of other Unions support.

And even though I know IBT is your weapon of choice they would be in the same boat.

True, they just have deeper pockets, that's the main reason.

 

[Rogallo]

Hey Rog you know what I honestly can’t stand about your Groups. It’s how readily it seems you all are to throw each other under the bus. You guys particularly in Line and OH really can’t stand each other. Facilities and Automotive are looked on like some lout that snuck in the back of the Country club.

I’m always beyond ecstatic that Fleet is not part of your Class and Craft cause a lot of people in your Group would stab us in the back in a Heartbeat.

That’s my opinion and how I “generally” see you guys.

Line should vote seperatly for Line
OH should for OH
Facilities for Facilities and
Automotive for Automotive
Etc.

You guys can’t really be trusted to do the right thing and take care of each other.

Again my opinion.

IGM Weezie! Get with the times.