WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,662
- Banned
- #61
an AVERAGE of 12 hours per day is pretty close to the limit for domestic aircraft without opening the operation to significant interruptions in the event of IROPS.
American Airbuses to Hawaii ?
- Thread starter mistified
- Start date
Correct, and the AVERAGE utilization of a 16 plane fleet to fly 12 round trips between LAX and HA would equal 8.5 hours per day. That would be a piss-poor fleet utilization rate at any airline.WorldTraveler said:
Typical block for those 12 round trips is 11:20 total. Divided by a 16 plane fleet equals 8.5 hours per day.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,662
- Banned
- #63
the first and second part of your sentence doesn't yield the same utilization.
I don't disagree that AA might get on average one round-trip per aircraft but remember that has to include spares and IROP recovery or else they have to start cancelling.
1.5 RTs per aircraft is well beyond reasonable scheduling.
I don't disagree that AA might get on average one round-trip per aircraft but remember that has to include spares and IROP recovery or else they have to start cancelling.
1.5 RTs per aircraft is well beyond reasonable scheduling.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,662
- Banned
- #65
it is worth noting that all of the US passenger carriers that operate widebodies between the west coast and Hawaii (AA, DL, HA, UA) carry on average of 12K and 15K pounds of freight on a non-directional basis with most of that coming from HNL. There is little cargo that is carried on 757s or smaller and very little from outside of HNL.
As took place on the transcons and as I predicted, removal of widebody aircraft from the west coast to Hawaii will remove AA from that segment of the cargo market.
As took place on the transcons and as I predicted, removal of widebody aircraft from the west coast to Hawaii will remove AA from that segment of the cargo market.
Jester
Veteran
WorldTraveler said:
Out of PHX we are typically moving around 5,000 pounds of freight onto Hawaiian flights, plus 200 bags on the 757s. PHX is hotter and further, so I would expect LAX flights to handle even more. Not to mention, ground operations can turn a 757 much faster than a 767. I know there will be a difference, especially on oversized cargo, but I would just assume avoid dealing with the bulky, low-profit margin mail so the net effect I don't is as substantial as you are suggesting.
Kev3188
Veteran
At NW, we ran a '57 on PDX-HNL. It routinely went out with 1000's of lbs. of cargo.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,662
- Banned
- #72
the great thing about the airline industry is that there is so much data. The DOT collects freight and mail boarded information but does not collect passenger baggage weights or pieces.
In the year ended Feb 2015, US carried an average of 1200 lbs of freight and about 500 pounds of mail for PHX to HNL and a couple hundred pounds more than that on the return with the majority being freight and little mail.
there is very little cargo carried to other Hawaii destinations by US.
And these are on 757s, not 321s. No one has argued that 757s can't carry 2000 pounds of cargo on segments of that length; AA carries similar amounts of cargo.
But that is still a fraction of what widebody flights carry.
and given that a current engine 321 will likely operate at close to max takeoff weight even with just passengers and baggage, the chances of carrying cargo are far less than on a 757.
and I would imagine that AA's policy is like other carriers in that they will not carry non-revs if they can carry revenue cargo.
and finally, US mail is not necessarily low yielding.
The USPS does have very exacting performance standards and most passenger carriers have historically not been able to deliver to those standards compared to FedEx and freight carriers. and if carriers pay penalties, then the yield very quickly goes down.
you can let us know what time period you are talking about, Kev, but DOT data shows that NW never carried more than 1000 pounds of cargo and mail on an average daily basis on PDX-HNL over a year any time since before 2000. Of course, averages ALWAYS allow the possibility for significant data points that are above or below the average but on an annualized basis, NW's average cargo loads were less than 1000 pounds.
In the year ended Feb 2015, US carried an average of 1200 lbs of freight and about 500 pounds of mail for PHX to HNL and a couple hundred pounds more than that on the return with the majority being freight and little mail.
there is very little cargo carried to other Hawaii destinations by US.
And these are on 757s, not 321s. No one has argued that 757s can't carry 2000 pounds of cargo on segments of that length; AA carries similar amounts of cargo.
But that is still a fraction of what widebody flights carry.
and given that a current engine 321 will likely operate at close to max takeoff weight even with just passengers and baggage, the chances of carrying cargo are far less than on a 757.
and I would imagine that AA's policy is like other carriers in that they will not carry non-revs if they can carry revenue cargo.
and finally, US mail is not necessarily low yielding.
The USPS does have very exacting performance standards and most passenger carriers have historically not been able to deliver to those standards compared to FedEx and freight carriers. and if carriers pay penalties, then the yield very quickly goes down.
you can let us know what time period you are talking about, Kev, but DOT data shows that NW never carried more than 1000 pounds of cargo and mail on an average daily basis on PDX-HNL over a year any time since before 2000. Of course, averages ALWAYS allow the possibility for significant data points that are above or below the average but on an annualized basis, NW's average cargo loads were less than 1000 pounds.
jimntx
Veteran
Obviously, AA retirees and US retirees are accessing two totally different websites. Wonder when that will end. If they can get the two frequent flyer programs merged with a minimum of delay and/or pain, seems as if they could get the retiree non-rev travel systems merged.
Similar threads
