Airbus Order - 320s, 330's, 350's

[BuffaloJoe]

Well, they got the engines right, but dang---Airbus--max a 20 year frame.

Will US Airways still be around in 27 Years?

 

[sfb]

Q. What existing narrowbody airplanes will be retired and when?

A. The entire fleet of both East and West 737-300/400 planes will be retired between 2008 and the end of 2012 under the current plan. We also plan to eliminate the oldest B757s from the fleet, which would leave us with 20 757s to be used on Hawaii, European and certain transcon routes.

So, as of 12/31/2006, the combined US Airways/America West fleet of 737-300's and 737-400's totaled 96 frames, while the combined 757-200 fleet numbered 46. That gives a total Boeing narrowbody fleet of 142. Subtracting the 20 757's which are to be retained, that's 122 aircraft slated for retirement; these are to be replaced by 97 A32X as mentioned, as well as 25 E190's (as of 12/31/2006; 3 of those are already delivered). It would appear that the net growth of the mainline narrowbody fleet is therefore zero through the end of 2012. Seats on offer will probably decrease slightly given that the E190 is smaller than anything else in the fleet and A321's are smaller than 757's.

A couple of other points: HP has roughly 15 rather elderly A320's which are among the first 100 or so off the line; these will be hitting 20 years in age around the end of the decade and also will likely need to be replaced. Also, it's not clear how many of the company's future lease returns are part of the Airbus fleet.

i asked scot kirby about this today via e-mail . he replied and said that we did have a previous a330 order but it's legal status was uncertain so this is a new one.

A company the size of US Airways is "uncertain" about the status of a billion-dollar order for new widebodies?! That simply beggars belief. I do believe that LCC probably got some very attractive additional discounts on the A332's in order to move the A350's.

 

[SpinDoc]

Unknown.....
Flip a coin???
A toss-up. Either the 767's while they're around or the A321's with 187 seats.

Jim

Jim:

You know as well as most airline professionals that the A321 is NOT a suitable replacement for the 757 because it does not have the same operational capabilities. The A330-200 might be a good match for the 757, but not the A321 in its' current engine/fuel capacity configuration.

Now, part of the press release indicated that US would be retiring some of the older 757's in the fleet due to age/MX concerns, however, newer used 757's with winglets are going to be purchased to replace them.

US would have been smart to pick up a few 757-300's last year when they were available, to use as interim feed for T/A flights until the A330-200's are delivered.

 

[BoeingBoy]

No argument that the 321 is NOT a suitable direct replacement for the capabilities of the 757. However, it appears that US will use the 321 to replace the 757 where possible - my take is that means primarily ETOPS operations and maybe some transcon/Caribbean/LA with the remaining 757's and 321's everywhere else that much capacity is needed.

As far as getting more used 757's, the question is will they pay the prices (lease rates) necessary. After all, it appears that US wasn't willing to pay enough to keep later model 757's so they're going to FedEx. So being "constantly on the lookout for good used 757's" doesn't mean that any will be procured.

Jim

 

[A320 Driver]

B)

Jim:

You know as well as most airline professionals that the A321 is NOT a suitable replacement for the 757 because it does not have the same operational capabilities. The A330-200 might be a good match for the 757, but not the A321 in its' current engine/fuel capacity configuration.

Now, part of the press release indicated that US would be retiring some of the older 757's in the fleet due to age/MX concerns, however, newer used 757's with winglets are going to be purchased to replace them.

US would have been smart to pick up a few 757-300's last year when they were available, to use as interim feed for T/A flights until the A330-200's are delivered.

I can't see where a wide body aircraft (A330) would be a replacement aircraft for the narrow body (757) unless you're talking about European operations. The 757s haven't flown west of Las Vegas for some time now, the Airbus does all the West Coast flying. The only domestic destination that I believe to be problematic when replacing the 757 is Vail. We already fly the 321s to the Carribean and Mexico. The 757 is a great performing aircraft which probably accounts for it being in such high demand on the used market. We might as well get used to getting along without them...they won't last forever.

Another comment was made about "20 year airframes" on the Airbus. We had 737-400s that didn't make it near that long. AWA is still flying A320s built in the 80s.

I think much of this Airbus vs. Boeing argument comes down to personal preference or bias.


A320 Driver B)

 

[Elevation]

B)
I can't see where a wide body aircraft (A330) would be a replacement aircraft for the narrow body (757) unless you're talking about European operations. The 757s haven't flown west of Las Vegas for some time now, the Airbus does all the West Coast flying. The only domestic destination that I believe to be problematic when replacing the 757 is Vail. We already fly the 321s to the Carribean and Mexico. The 757 is a great performing aircraft which probably accounts for it being in such high demand on the used market. We might as well get used to getting along without them...they won't last forever.

Another comment was made about "20 year airframes" on the Airbus. We had 737-400s that didn't make it near that long. AWA is still flying A320s built in the 80s.

I think much of this Airbus vs. Boeing argument comes down to personal preference or bias.
A320 Driver B)

Their arguments are a joke they complain because they fly on old junky aircraft then they complain the planes won't last 30 years...morons. The Airbus make a good product that passengers and crew find comfortable, debate over.

 

[Atlantic]

Talk to a pilot, more to the point, to a M/X. An Airbus dosen't have the legs past 20 years. Shure you can zero the A/C out, but does it make sence in dollars. Thats the question, the CO has rolled the dice, and allready cashed in.The wait time for 767 is what?

 

[jcw]

If mgmt would have purchased Boeing then people would have been complaining about having two aircraft types and complaining about the MX headache's two fleet types create. If they pick Airbus they make made all the people who want Boeing mad. If they try to simplify the fleet to make it easier on MX, Pilots, FA, ground crew, save money - its a bad idea. How do foreign airlines fly Airbus aircraft for long periods of time without issue? How does US want to expand overseas and have international presence if they can't buy any aircraft from foreign suppliers? How many Boeing employees who make the plans drive Hondas? Or how many US employees driving to fly today drive Hondas?

 

[Elevation]

Talk to a pilot, more to the point, to a M/X. An Airbus dosen't have the legs past 20 years. Shure you can zero the A/C out, but does it make sence in dollars. Thats the question, the CO has rolled the dice, and allready cashed in.The wait time for 767 is what?

Why would you want a 20 year old A/C anyway?

 

[BuffaloJoe]

Why would you want a 20 year old A/C anyway?

767's are still in Production 200-300-and 400's. All ER's according to Boeing website.

Boeing Page

 

[yvrusfa]

If mgmt would have purchased Boeing then people would have been complaining about having two aircraft types and complaining about the MX headache's two fleet types create. If they pick Airbus they make made all the people who want Boeing mad. If they try to simplify the fleet to make it easier on MX, Pilots, FA, ground crew, save money - its a bad idea. How do foreign airlines fly Airbus aircraft for long periods of time without issue? How does US want to expand overseas and have international presence if they can't buy any aircraft from foreign suppliers? How many Boeing employees who make the plans drive Hondas? Or how many US employees driving to fly today drive Hondas?

EXCELLENT point jcw!!!

Could'nt agree more!

Boeing is fine and they make good a/c, and (living in WA. state it is especially true....) it is nice to buy the local product and I am a big believer in that BTW.

But, Airbus also makes a fine a/c and they use many US made parts and suppliers. It is what it is.
In the end, the company probably saved a ton of $$$$ by standardizing the fleet plus the incentives AB most likely gave to stay with the 350XWB and 320 family. Commonality means a great deal in this industry.

My understanding is that Boeing was unwilling to give any kind of "deal" unless we ordered both the wide and narrow body a/c from them. Also, there were only around 10 787 that could be delivered "early" ( 2009/10 timeframe) and the rest 2014 and later. So, whats the difference between half the 787's in 09/10 and the rest later or all the XWB's in 2014/15????
That probably really tied the hands of the company and probably explains the result. Just my understanding, but a normally reliable source.
FWIW...

 

[brown]

There is nothing I would like better than to joist with you over these issues, but the difference between you and I is that I will not run down aircraft in our current fleet and erode the confidence of our flying public just to win an argument. Like so many of our other employees, I face our traveling public every day...you do not. USAirways does not need your approval OR support for the decision that has been made regarding aircraft. The fact that you can spew this one-sided venom and try to scare people is despicable.

A320 Driver :down:

This bozo is a fired STOCK room clerk, don't let him get to you. He is a little man, that isn't involved with U anymore.

 

[A320 Driver]

This bozo is a fired STOCK room clerk, don't let him get to you. He is a little man, that isn't involved with U anymore.

Thank goodness...


A320 Driver

 

[CynicalResAgent]

If the ultimate intention is to have the A350 become the only widebody in the fleet and they are going only have 22 of them it does not sound like there is going to be much international expansion.

I mean how many widebodies do we have now? 9 A330? and I forget how many 767s but it's less than 20 total widebodies.

How many planes do you need to service an Asian city with daily service?

 

[BuffaloJoe]

If the ultimate intention is to have the A350 become the only widebody in the fleet and they are going only have 22 of them it does not sound like there is going to be much international expansion.

I mean how many widebodies do we have now? 9 A330? and I forget how many 767s but it's less than 20 total widebodies.

How many planes do you need to service an Asian city with daily service?

I believe they will need 2 planes for each city pair.

22 does seem like an odd nuber from what they are stating what their intentions are. But the said they have the options to add on to the order. Maybe the A332's will be around for a longer time. And they are supposed to be retro-fitting the 767 so that means they will be around for at least 5 more years.