American Airbuses to Hawaii ?

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

So NOW,...............Imagine if this scenario had happened on a LAX/HNL trip.
And NOW, .....tell me...W T F does the captain G L I D E  to  ??????????????
 
( Never..Ever say..............." NEVER " )  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[700UW]

There have been millions of ETOPS flights.

 

[jimntx]

So NOW,...............Imagine if this scenario had happened on a LAX/HNL trip.
And NOW, .....tell me...W T F does the captain G L I D E  to  ??????????????
 
( Never..Ever say..............." NEVER " )  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok, Bears.  We get it.  You don't think that flying LAX-HNL in a 2-engine jet is a good idea.  Then don't do it.  However, I would have to ask...since we have been flying LAX-HNL with a 757 (only 2 engines just like the A321) and DFW-LAX with a 767 (also only 2 engines) for as long as I have been around AA (Sept. 2000) and probably longer than that, why all the concern now?  Is this a mistrust of 2-engine a/c or of Airbus products in general?

 

[topDawg]

It is reported that American plans to using narrow body Airbuses (321) to the islands from LAX starting in August.
If true I believe they will be the first to do this (narrow body airbuses across the pacific). It will be interesting to see how it works out. Right now they are using the 757 while other competitors are using the 757 and some the 737. 
 
misrified

they and Virgin will be the only carriers to do so with 320CEOs. 
 

That's the plan. They stated 3Q this year. I still don't believe it will make it fully loaded on the planes loaded with in seat video. If is was such a good idea, why is no one else doing it? Besides the fact Hawaiian purposely didn't NOT order these models. Which would have come cheaper AND faster than the NEO's. Time will tell.

I think a lot of why no one else is doing it is because of the age of the Airbus fleet in the US. US is about the only airline (that would fly to Hawaii) taking new airbuses. 
I know at Delta none of the current fleet can do it. They aren't at the highest MTOWs nor do they have the highest thrust engines. (and they are all CFM56-5As so its not a simple plug change it would require CFM56-5Bs to be hung on the wings) 
 
AS is all 737
United is only taking new 737s. 
 
Virgin is going to add Hawaii flights with 320s soon though. 
 

DL has new 321s on order for delivery within a year. Not sure how the technical specs compare between the 2. Given that it can carry as many passengers as current configuration 757-200s with newer engines on a lighter aircraft, the economics are certainly better. and the question is not just about the 321 but the entire 320 family.

Virgin America is also starting Hawaii service with current engine 320s so maybe it really was that the 737 was available for US carriers that wanted to start Hawaii service and Boeing had done the work to get ETOPS on them.

AA and DL both have 738s in service. DL also like UA has 739ERs in service; UA uses their 739ERs and 738s to Hawaii. I don't believe that DL's 738s are ETOPS but I've heard that some of AA's are. AS has 738s in service which are regularly used for Hawaii flights. I'm not sure if their 738 fleet or only a subset are ETOPS and if there are any other technical differences between their ETOPS and non ETOPS 738s if there is a subset.

Someone can correct any or all of this.

UA has a combination of 738s and 753s for its narrowbody service from Maui in December 2015

The biggest difference is the AA models are V2500 powered while ours will be CFM56-5B3 powered. I am not sure which V2500 AA went with and I believe the CFMs offer just a little bit more thrust than the V2500 also. 
Also I don't believe the 321s will come as ETOPS. I do not know if they will have all the equipment needed up front to be able to become ETOPS later down the road. 
 

Ok, Bears.  We get it.  You don't think that flying LAX-HNL in a 2-engine jet is a good idea.  Then don't do it.  However, I would have to ask...since we have been flying LAX-HNL with a 757 (only 2 engines just like the A321) and DFW-LAX with a 767 (also only 2 engines) for as long as I have been around AA (Sept. 2000) and probably longer than that, why all the concern now?  Is this a mistrust of 2-engine a/c or of Airbus products in general?

but good luck getting there unless to go via Europe to Asia to HNL. 
No airline has a US-HNL flight on anything more than two engines AFAIK. Been that way for a while..... and no planes have taken a swim to my knowledge. 

 

[WorldTraveler]

thanks for the technical info and the news that DL's 321s are not coming as ETOPS a/c so far as you know.

also, the patch of ocean to the west of Hawaii doesn't have a whole lot more land than that between Hawaii and the mainland... there are a few more islands with airports, though, if it makes the Bear feel better.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Ok, Bears.  We get it.  You don't think that flying LAX-HNL in a 2-engine jet is a good idea.  Then don't do it.  However, I would have to ask...since we have been flying LAX-HNL with a 757 (only 2 engines just like the A321) and DFW-LAX with a 767 (also only 2 engines) for as long as I have been around AA (Sept. 2000) and probably longer than that, why all the concern now?  Is this a mistrust of 2-engine a/c or of Airbus products in general?

 
None of the above Jim.
I have NEVER liked the idea of a two engine a/c flying anywhere, where they can't get on the ground very quickly.(Worst still if the flight is over a huge body of water (think the Atlantic) and even worse whene going over the pacific.
Jesus, I'd feel more safe going over the pole (JFK/HKG) than LAX/HNL.
 
One of these days, this etops shiit...is going to deposit a two holer in the drink, and there ain't gonna be no one around.  NO  ONE.
(And its NOT going to be a Cap't Sully thing)  !!!!!!!!!!!

 

[hp-csr-phx]

It's official....details on jetnet. Starts 8Aug15 with 18 dedicated 321H aircraft.

 

[Overspeed]

Weight restricted to OGG and LIH

 

[IORFA]

It's official....details on jetnet. Starts 8Aug15 with 18 dedicated 321H aircraft.

I think you have a typo. Jetnet says 16 dedicated A/C.

 

[IORFA]

Weight restricted to OGG and LIH

Another typo. Jetnet says weight restricted FROM OGG & LIH.

 

[ChrisUS]

It's official....details on jetnet. Starts 8Aug15 with 18 dedicated 321H aircraft.

For those of us retirees who don't have access to Jetnet, can you post what it said? What's there seating on a 321H? 

 

[IORFA]

16/165. Nose to tail in seat video. Also, I thought retirees had access to a retiree version of Jetnet?

 

[FWAAA]

Another typo. Jetnet says weight restricted FROM OGG & LIH.

I may be wrong, but I'm going to guess that those will be weight restricted both directions. From LAX to OGG and LIH, weight restrictions due to the westbound "into the wind" 2,500 mile flight with the fuel tanks completely full, which may cause some payload restrictions.

From OGG and LIH, the short runways at both airports will definitely cause weight restrictions. LIH is just 6,500 feet and OGG is just 7,000 feet, so no way will the performance charts indicate takeoff at MTOW. Don't need to max out on fuel (owing to the easy eastbound flight) but also can't max out on payload due to the short runways.

The earlier planned configuration of 24F/150Y (before the configurations were "Parkerized") would have been ideal.

 

[IORFA]

Not according to the corp comm team. I know, consider the source. They are wrong on a regular basis. However, with 16 planes, that could mean an increase of overall flights if my terrible math skills are correct. Each plane should be able to do 1 round trip at a minimum. In the summer peak, I think the total flights if they were daily are right around 12 total flights. Maybe SFO-HNL could come back! I based that on my recollection of:

LAX-HNL 5
LAX-OGG 3
LAX-LIH 2
LAX-KOA 2

Now of course this doesn't account for any DFW turns from LAX thrown in the day. However, if they were segregated to west coast Hawaii, then SFO-HNL could be added. Of course, that doesn't include any possible increase in flights to existing cities or any additions like say an LAX-ITO flight.

 

[FWAAA]

Good point. I would think that 16 dedicated planes should be able to fly more than just 12 round trips. AA gets 18 round trips from the 17 dedicated A321Ts, and those aren't fully utilized. Should be able to get about 1.5 round trips maximum per plane, but even at just one daily round trip each, there's room for additional frequencies.