ALPA/USAPA Topic for week of 1/24 to 1/31

[700UW]

Any union is bound by law by the current CBA, and arbitration awards, guess you don't realize your transition agreement it part of your CBA and falls under the RLA.

A change in representation does not change your cba or any arbitration awards, oh by the way, aberrations are precedent setting.

Looks like someone is trying to sell you some magic beans.

 

[end_of_alpa]

I guess reality has not sunk in on the usaps.

Nic award is final and binding, usaps cant make it go away.

You really need an education on arbitration.

You need to get a life professional union guy. You're WRONG and you'll find out.

 

[end_of_alpa]

I wonder if the U-SAPs would be willing to require a supermajority (66%) to pass items requiring membership ratification? Or do they plan on sneaking in the ever-disappointing 50%+1 disasters? Or do they merely want to steamroll the west? Supermajority would go along way towards avoiding disenfranchisement.

USAPA- Still selling apples out of an empty wagon (Wanna bet they blame ALPA for stealing the apples?)

Do you mean for contract ratification? The supermajority of the East requirement to ratify ANY tentative agreement is the reason you'll never see the Nicolau award now. You won't get supermajority when USAPA gets voted in...we'll have SIMPLE majority......as is should be. First you want superseniority and now you want supermajority. You definitely WON'T get supermajority any more than Nicolau gives you superseniority. I'll guarantee you that!

50% + 1. Welcome to democracy.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Any union is bound by law by the current CBA, and arbitration awards, guess you don't realize your transition agreement it part of your CBA and falls under the RLA.

IMO. You are so way off base concerning the TA and the RLA. The TA is only an agreement to merge 2 ALPA represented MEC's. But if it falls under the RLA does this mean we can seek self help? I hope so, a vacation about now would be great.

 

[700UW]

The TA is a LOA which is part of your CBA, better go check your facts.

How many Negotiation Committees have you been part of?

You can only seek self-help when you are in Section 6 negotiations, which you are not?

How many collective bargaining classes have you taken?

 

[Phoenix]

I wonder if the U-SAPs would be willing to require a supermajority (66%) to pass items requiring membership ratification? Or do they plan on sneaking in the ever-disappointing 50%+1 disasters? Or do they merely want to steamroll the west? Supermajority would go along way towards avoiding disenfranchisement.

USAPA- Still selling apples out of an empty wagon (Wanna bet they blame ALPA for stealing the apples?)

If you think ALPA has done untold harm by having a 50%+1 rule then this is the time to ask USAPA to put 60%, 66%, 75% in the constitution. I encourage you to honestly engage and tell them what you think. You have their email give it a try.

 

[ClueByFour]

IMO. You are so way off base concerning the TA and the RLA. The TA is only an agreement to merge 2 ALPA represented MEC's. But if it falls under the RLA does this mean we can seek self help? I hope so, a vacation about now would be great.

Actually, like anything else, it's an agreement between the bargaining agent and the company. You can't get rid of it by changing the bargaining agent.

The West pilots still have to independently ratify a new contract, which (Even if the arbitration is overturned) is the only option for the USAPA DOH cramdown attempt. I don't see that group doing that. Instead, I see the East getting their wish of LOA 93 forever, with the additional bonus of DFR lawsuits and 1700 pilots not paying dues.

It's criminally stupid to campaign, as the USAPA proponents have done, on the premise of a DOH cramdown which is only going to happen if the West pilot group votes it as such.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

The TA is a LOA which is part of your CBA, better go check your facts.

How many Negotiation Committees have you been part of?

You can only seek self-help when you are in Section 6 negotiations, which you are not?

How many collective bargaining classes have you taken?

I think its you that needs to check your facts. As I said, the TA is only an agreement to merge 2 ALPA MEC's. Where is ALPA again after the vote? Therefore don't confuse the RLA and ALPA as being one and the same. Your carefully blended statements only tells me you have some other agenda. By your previous posts, they have always been, and always will be anti east pilot.

By your questions and inference you seem to think you are some self labeled expert on all things RLA. But based on your penchant of pilot bashing, expert you are not.

 

[end_of_alpa]

The TA is a LOA which is part of your CBA, better go check your facts.

How many Negotiation Committees have you been part of?

You can only seek self-help when you are in Section 6 negotiations, which you are not?

How many collective bargaining classes have you taken?

Then we'll just have to find out. Just because you "claim" to be the professional negotiator that you are doesn't mean you are. Have already run across the "legal" reps we have here already. Maybe you should hire them. I have debated this ad nauseum with you for several months now. I KNOW YOU need to check YOUR facts because YOU HAVE NEVER SEEN THIS KIND OF ISSUE COME BEFORE YOU here with the IAM. Your UNION education needs to be revisited.

Your in depth KNOWLEDGE of labor law baffles me. We already have it from ALPA attorneys that our interpretation IS correct. If you don't vote for it, you don't get it. That is why their polling us AND asking us HOW MUCH MONEY WILL IT TAKE TO MAKE YOU VOTE YES? I have talked to them already. What ever you don't vote for HAS to be renegotiated before it WILL pass. The side letter is a means by which the company will open the EAST contract so a joint one can be negotiated.

WE DISAGREE. You are wrong and when we get sued, you'll find out. Please keep telling these guys we're wrong. I do not want the 10 day lock down to have any possible means for a solution. Not to worry, they won't.

Look chum, go play somewhere else. I'm glad you're not negotiating for us...you would have cut our throats while we slept.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Actually, like anything else, it's an agreement between the bargaining agent and the company. You can't get rid of it by changing the bargaining agent.

Interesting, who are the 3 signatories on the TA? After the election, where are 2 of them?

 

[luvn737s]

Interesting, who are the 3 signatories on the TA? After the election, where are 2 of them?

So the contract goes away as well, eh? Folks on LTD are immediately cut off. Grievances vanish? You think you can pick and choose what U-SAPs keeps and what it doesn't. A little of this, a dash of that...

Even the fiercest anti-Nic radical would have to demand something that resembled common sense from their leadership wouldn't they?

Wouldn't they?

 

[700UW]

The Transition Agreement was not negotiated between the West and East MECs only, both MECs negotiated and signed it with US Airways.

Don't Let the Facts Get in Your WAY!

Funny how many LOAs are in your CBA that you never voted on?

Gee I seem to remember you never voted on giving up your pension, yet it happened!

Get some education.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

So the contract goes away as well, eh? Folks on LTD are immediately cut off. Grievances vanish? You think you can pick and choose what U-SAPs keeps and what it doesn't. A little of this, a dash of that...

Nice try. We're only talking about the TA to merge 2 ALPA MEC's. Where is ALPA after the vote? Fear mongering at its best on display once again.

 

[end_of_alpa]

The Transition Agreement was not negotiated between the West and East MECs only, both MECs negotiated and signed it with US Airways.

Don't Let the Facts Get in Your WAY!

Funny how many LOAs are in your CBA that you never voted on?

Gee I seem to remember you never voted on giving up your pension, yet it happened!

Get some education.

And THAT was a vote we were ENTITLED to have! That is why we are where we are. You do not even HAVE a copy of our US Airways policy manual, our contract OR any of the side letters WE have! YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU"RE TALKING ABOUT. That's probably why you're in OUR forum and not representing YOUR rank and file anymore. From your unintelligent legal conclusions I can see why that is. Your leadership has ostracized you to the US Aviation forum where you might actually LEARN something. Actually, your bitterness from having your strike broken in 1998 by US Airways pilots has always been the real crux of your venting!!!

Don't let the LAW get in your way!

You know in your case I know where the saying "You can't fix stupid" comes from.

 

[luvn737s]

So the protection of self-interest begins. Avoid the accountability of a super-majority, keep the power just where U-SAPs wants it.

And U-SAPs guarantees that nothing substantive will happen by marginalizing the west. That's delivering for the East pilots! Yeah, right.

So how long do you think Parker will wait to gain the flexibility to deploy the US assets where he wants? My guess is his patience with the east will wear thin and he will see the quagmire U-SAPs is cooking up and decide to open west bases in CLT and PHL and east bases in PHX and LAS. Nicolau will become moot as west pilots upgrade into east bases, and the east's monopoly on growth will evaporate.

"But, but, but what about the, the TA? You can't do that! It says so! Seham sez so!" Our U-SAPs experts have given us the definitive word that the TA goes away when USAPA wins.

USAPA - Building a superhighway dead-end.