ALPA/USAPA Topic for week of 1/24 to 1/31

[V.O.R.]

What funding will a start-up caucus have to represent 5000+ pilots? How is USAPA going to provide all the services needed to truly protect all US Airways pilots? Have USAPA supporters thought about the following: Negotiations, Grievance, Scheduling, Aeromedical, Central Air Safety, ASAP, HIMS, Communications, Hotel, Legal...among others.

There is NO way that USAPA will be able to represent pilots in the areas above. PLEASE start to think for yourselves and STOP drinking the Kool-Aid. It's time to move forward with a contract that puts LOA 93 in its well-deserved grave.

 

[P51Pilot]

What funding will a start-up caucus have to represent 5000+ pilots? How is USAPA going to provide all the services needed to truly protect all US Airways pilots? Have USAPA supporters thought about the following: Negotiations, Grievance, Scheduling, Aeromedical, Central Air Safety, ASAP, HIMS, Communications, Hotel, Legal...among others.

There is NO way that USAPA will be able to represent pilots in the areas above. PLEASE start to think for yourselves and STOP drinking the Kool-Aid. It's time to move forward with a contract that puts LOA 93 in its well-deserved grave.

Since there is already a thread on this subject, this one will be headed for the grave. More likely it will be joined by ALPA and the Nicalou award though.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

700, you are exactly correct. Negotiated contracts and agreements are not changed by switching unions. USAPA has plenty of inconsistencies in their story and how they intend to sequester the Nicolau award. As you know one of their proposed strategies in rearranging the seniority list is to include DOH in a new CBA.

Not unilaterally anyway. IMO. Since either party could walk away from the TA in 2006, my guess is you will see a new TA negotiated to set the stage for merging contracts. Using the new Constitution and ByLaws as a template.

Two problems with this. One, the shuttle and Empire pilots would have to be changed in addition to AWA pilots. Two, by combining pilot groups under the collective umbrella of one union, USAPA will have the nicolau seniority list on day one as the only list the company can recognize since it was completed by the two pilot groups and accepted by the company prior to USAPA becoming the new union.

No they would not. The Shuttle and Empire seniority already resides in a contract. Where does Nicolau reside? Not in any working contract that I know of. Until Nicolau is implemented in a joint contract we won't have to defend anything.

So what we would have is USAPA actually enforcing the Nicolau award for the west with the later hope of rewriting seniority in a DOH format after a new CBA is negotiated.

Nicolau will never make it into a joint contract. Therefore your point is null and void.

USAPA has three obstacles but they only see one, the Nicolau award. In reallity, they also have the transition agreement to step around as well as the previously arbitrated 757 and E190 agreements which specifically gives AWA pilots access to those airplanes. USAPs think they can just void any agreement they choose with a vote. Stupid, I know. So there are quite a few hurdles for these guys, but as you well know the USAPA leaders are fueled by emotion alone- logic has left their collective brains quite a while ago.

Actually we see many more than 3 obstacles. Luckily saner and smarter people than me or those who post here are handling them. Actually I really don't care about the previous 757 and 190 agreements. With one fleet shrinking and one growing, you're welcome to all the 190 flying you can handle. Sorry and thankfully the USAPA leaders are not fueled by emotions. Maybe others who post here are, but not the leaders. Keep trying. You may land on something that is correct one of these days. But so far you haven't even come close.

 

[prechilill]

The usual suspects ignore the hard questions around here. Just to recap today's proclamations by a few of the geniuses from the east:

1. A vote can selectively usurp arbitrated agreements

2. USAPA is not about the Nicolau

3. USAPA would come out to Phoenix, if only they were invited.

4. USAPA has a plan, but they just won't answer any questions about it.

So what revelations will tomorrow bring? You guys are funny. You are working against the law, you have trouble even fielding honest and direct questions and you insulate yourselves with each others' assuances that even though you have lost your whole careers that somehow you will be delivered a little salvation from being terminal first officers. You may believe what you want. Smart or stupid, everyone in America has the right to dream.

 

[Bear96]

Stop accepting the premise that the election is about the Nicolau award. It is not.

One of the silliest things ever posted on USAviation.

 

[end_of_alpa]

One of the silliest things ever posted on USAviation.

I would beg to differ. Pretend lawyers are the "silliest". <_<

 

[nostradamus]

We have had the good fortune to have two legitimate lawyers post here for the benefit of all, but they are unwilling to waste their valuable time here anymore, sad to say.

I do not know who the "legitimate" lawyers you are referring to, maybe you can mention who they were and let the readers decide if it was sad. The ones who claimed they were lawyers definitely wasted their time and everyone else's.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

The usual suspects ignore the hard questions around here. Just to recap today's proclamations by a few of the geniuses from the east:

Your assumption that those who post here are the leaders of USAPA is laughable. I'm just a volunteer in one specific area. No more no less. But thanks for the vote of confidence into my mental faculties.

If you want answers to the really "hard" questions, I'll say again, e-mail USAPA at Info@USAirlinePilots.org but then again I haven't really seen any hard questions asked. Just because the answers we might have did not suit your interests or expectations, you just lump them all into the category of nonsense. Too bad for you. Some of the answers are easily found on the USAPA website. Try going there.

 

[luvn737s]

I'm not sure why the moderators have permitted personal attacks by certain posters, but for whatever reason, they have. I think that each posters record can stand and it would not be necessary for me to name them. I appreciate the chance for both sides of the issue to be aired and defended, but to allow it to degrade into personal attacks on specific posters and ignore the issues does nothing more than further polarize each side and fuel generalizations (unfair and otherwise) about either side.

 

[luvn737s]

You could'nt fix stupid there either.

Couldn't

 

[Phoenix]

I would beg to differ. Pretend lawyers are the "silliest". <_<

Its a simple question. Is the Nicolau list on the ballot?

But then that's too simple for someone who thinks the necessity of a signature on a contract is meaningless. (I have hope. I think signatures on contracts isn't addressed until the junior or senior year.)

 

[nostradamus]

I'm not sure why the moderators have permitted personal attacks by certain posters, but for whatever reason, they have. I think that each posters record can stand and it would not be necessary for me to name them. I appreciate the chance for both sides of the issue to be aired and defended, but to allow it to degrade into personal attacks on specific posters and ignore the issues does nothing more than further polarize each side and fuel generalizations (unfair and otherwise) about either side.

You include in your posts a reference to USAPA as U Saps, is this not personal on almost every post you make?

 

[Bear96]

Its a simple question. Is the Nicolau list on the ballot?

Pretty much, in the minds of the East pilots who actually believe what USAPA is peddling.

But then that's too simple for someone who thinks the necessity of a signature on a contract is meaningless. (I have hope. I think signatures on contracts isn't addressed until the junior or senior year.)

Actually, Contracts is a first year law school course. And in that basic course, first year law students learn there are many, many ways to form a contract besides getting a signature on a piece of paper. Hope that helps.

But that is neither here nor there. It is very clear the East pilots agreed to be bound by the results of the Nicolau arbitration, no matter how much you try to spin and deny it.

But good luck to you!

 

[700UW]

Luv,

You see posters like end of alpa and dariencc attack the posters cause they cant refute nor debate the factual information that I and others have shown them to be correct.

Just read what they said about me.

And last time I checked one's knowledge of labor law, CBAs and the RLA does not depend on one's classification, but yet they try to deflect the real issues at hand by attacking the poster.

 

[luvn737s]

You include in your posts a reference to USAPA as U Saps, is this not personal on almost every post you make?

No, it references an organization, of sorts, rather than an individual.