ALPA/USAPA/Pilot Labor Thread for the week 4/12-4/19

[fatherabraham]

My guess.....USAPA wins by 500

 

[JetMonkey]

From what I hear we wont get the "actual numbers", the NMB doesn't show them, only who wins. ALPA or USAPA is that it'll say. Anyone heard the same thing?

 

[end_of_alpa]

From what I hear we wont get the "actual numbers", the NMB doesn't show them, only who wins. ALPA or USAPA is that it'll say. Anyone heard the same thing?

As usual..you guys LISTEN to the wrong people but don't READ the real information. Here is a "sample" of what a determination looks like.

NATIONAL MEDIATION BOARD
WASHINGTON, DC 20572
(202) 692-5000
In the Matter of the
35 NMB No. 33
REPRESENTATION OF
CASE NO. R-7141EMPLOYEES CERTIFICATION of April 1, 2008

UNITED AIRLINES, INC.

Mechanics & Related Employees

The services of the National Mediation Board (Board) were invoked by the International Brotherhood of Teamsters (IBT) on December 4, 2007, to investigate and determine who may represent for the purposes of the Railway Labor Act (RLA), as provided by Section 2, Ninth, thereof, personnel described as “Mechanics & Related Employees,â€￾ employees of United Airlines, Inc. (Carrier).

At the time this application was received, these employees were represented by the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA).

The Board assigned Investigator Susanna Parker to investigate.

FINDINGS
The investigation disclosed that a dispute existed among the craft or class of Mechanics & Related Employees, and by direction of the Board, the Investigator was instructed to conduct an election to determine the employees' representation choice.
The following is the result of the election as reported by Investigator Parker.

Election Results for Mechanics & Related Employees

Eligible Employees 8,631
IBT 4,113
AMFA 2,631
Void Votes 11
Write-in Votes 45

The Board further finds that: the Carrier and employees in this case are, respectively, a Carrier and employees within the meaning of the RLA, as amended; this Board has jurisdiction over the dispute involved herein; and the interested parties, as well as the Carrier, were given due notice of the Board's investigation.

CERTIFICATION

NOW, THEREFORE, in accordance with Section 2, Ninth, of the RLA, as amended, and based upon its investigation pursuant thereto, the Board certifies that the IBT has been duly designated and authorized to represent for the purposes of the RLA, as amended, the craft or class of Mechanics & Related Employees, employees of United Airlines, Inc., its successors and assigns.
By direction of the NATIONAL MEDIATION BOARD.

Mary L. Johnson
General Counsel

FORMATTING OMITTED

http://www.nmb.gov/representation/deter2008/35n033.pdf

Interesting to note that of the employees eligible to vote 1831 DIDN'T CARE! (1,831 none voters equate to NO VOTES). So much for the "theory" that AMFA lost because of the Seham law firm. Maybe it lost because the United "craft & class" has been getting a raw deal no matter WHO represents them. Maybe because of "promises" made to them by the IBT won't materialize? WHO KNOWS?

 

[DesertFA66]

I think the pilots (east) have screwed themselves over! US is going to merge with someone and with everything in change made (assuming usapa wins), pilots from US will be stapled or will most certainly not benefit from having a union that is still organizing and figuring things out.

One would think that in the mess the industry is in and will get worst, that having a flying job alone would be worth a lot, selfishness never pays off.

 

[Benz M-100]

USAPA by close to 1000, certainly a lot more than 500.

 

[Leonidas]

I think the pilots (east) have screwed themselves over! US is going to merge with someone and with everything in change made (assuming usapa wins), pilots from US will be stapled or will most certainly not benefit from having a union that is still organizing and figuring things out.

One would think that in the mess the industry is in and will get worst, that having a flying job alone would be worth a lot, selfishness never pays off.

The best part is if we merge with an alpa carrier, according to usapa seniority is negotiable and the majority rules, so if the west and the new carrier pilots gang up on the usapians, we can vote to staple them.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

The best part is if we merge with an alpa carrier, according to usapa seniority is negotiable and the majority rules, so if the west and the new carrier pilots gang up on the usapians, we can vote to staple them.

Yea, good luck with THAT! If USAPA is voted in, then any future merger seniority will be decided BY LAW, meaning the Allgeheny-Mohawk LPPs.

I thought your HIGH PRICED lawyers were going to save you. HMMM....

 

[EastUS]

I think the pilots (east) have screwed themselves over! US is going to merge with someone and with everything in change made (assuming usapa wins), pilots from US will be stapled or will most certainly not benefit from having a union that is still organizing and figuring things out.

One would think that in the mess the industry is in and will get worst, that having a flying job alone would be worth a lot, selfishness never pays off.

"selfishness never pays off." Umm...who's selfishness are we addressing here? Thankfully; one can always count on Leo to come "roaring" out from under some rock to enhance and clarify the true west "Righteous Position", bereft of all obsessive self interest and filled only with fraternal love Leo: "I want the Captain seat...and most of all, I want every single east pilot to pay for it". Now we have:

Leonidas: "The best part is if we merge with an alpa carrier, according to usapa seniority is negotiable and the majority rules, so if the west and the new carrier pilots gang up on the usapians, we can vote to staple them." Yep...no doubt in my mind, I won't even address the absurdity of that "Noble Dream", as I can't imagine any other pilot group anywhere not readilly embracing the obvious notion that the AWA group's the very most important people in all of aviation everywhere...sigh.

You west folk collectively offer up the finest stand up comedy act I've ever seen

 

[ClueByFour]

Yea, good luck with THAT! If USAPA is voted in, then any future merger seniority will be decided BY LAW, meaning the Allgeheny-Mohawk LPPs.

I thought your HIGH PRICED lawyers were going to save you. HMMM....

If seniority is negotiable (USAPA claims it is), then immediately following the integration under A-M, the majority of any new merger can reorder the list. That's essentially what USAPA is trying now (the company already _has_ the list).

If it works now, it'll work in the future. If it won't work in the future, it won't work now.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

If seniority is negotiable (USAPA claims it is), then immediately following the integration under A-M, the majority of any new merger can reorder the list. That's essentially what USAPA is trying now (the company already _has_ the list).

If it works now, it'll work in the future. If it won't work in the future, it won't work now.

MERGERS are NOW done by LAW. I guess that once the merger happened, IF (Note the BIG IF) you could then get the majority of the group to vote to reorder the list by some sort of methodology that would benefit the AWA guys, then go ahead. WON'T BE HAPPENING. Why would that occur? Just because they say so? Because they whine the loudest? Because REVERSE seniority is best? Go ahead, tell me what the methodology would be, and forget the NIC, it's been discredited already. If USAPA doesn't get voted in, it may still get thrown out in court.

If it makes you feel good, then keep dreaming.

 

[FlightChic]

I think the pilots (east) have screwed themselves over! US is going to merge with someone and with everything in change made (assuming usapa wins), pilots from US will be stapled or will most certainly not benefit from having a union that is still organizing and figuring things out.

One would think that in the mess the industry is in and will get worst, that having a flying job alone would be worth a lot, selfishness never pays off.

I try to stay out of East vs. West battles since we all work for the same airline now and I always enjoy talking with you all...but I just have to chime in here. I see your point about how we may be merging with another airline and with USAPA our pilots will be stapled to the bottom. Yikes! That would suck! I hope that doesn't happen but it could. However, I think it is a little harsh to call our East pilots selfish. Try to understand where they are coming from. Most of our pilots have been around longer than I have been alive, are very experienced, yet they will lose many, many years of their seniority and be forced to take the right seat when they should be sitting in the left seat. I would much rather have a captain who is fifty something years old with a lot of experience over a thirty year old. The way they did the seniority integration is not fair in any way, shape, or form. How would you like to instantly lose 15+ years of seniority to a junior person after working here for all those years? I wouldn't wish that on anybody. If they did that to the flight attendants and I were to gain 15 years of seniority I wouldn't be happy because I would know someone just lost their seniority which wouldn't be fair. I wish the East pilots the best of luck! If you need support in the future please ask your fellow flight attendants because I know many who support you guys and would back you up. Strength comes in numbers you know.

To East and West Pilots: If you're reading this, no matter what happens, please stop fighting with each other. When you say ugly remarks to a colleague (even if he is on the other side of the country) it makes you look foolish and immature. You need to learn to get along and settle your differences. If you're from the West, you know you would be pissed if you lost all of that seniority over someone junior to you. Please don't take things out on our pilots just because they are fighting for a fair seniority integration. Furthermore, it makes Doug happy to see you all fighting. Management wants to divide and conquer. It has got to stop! I always smile and speak to you all on the West when I see you and many of you smile and speak right back. We need to all get along like one airline. Trust me, if we merge with another airline we may really have to stick together and become a cohesive group. Oh, and if you are one of those who has a smartazz comment to say or a snarl when you see an Eastie or a Westie (whoever's on the opposing team), you better hope it isn't in my presence. BTW, I have never personally witnessed an Eastside Westside altercation but I have sure heard stories. I hope that's all they are...This malice has got to stop!

 

[EyeInTheSky]

selfishness never pays off.

You're right it doesn't.

Speaking of "selfishness"...would you like to hear a story about what some of your co-workers did recently? A US FA was traveling with her family from LAS-ONT. FA has over 30 years and was number 1 on the non-rev list. There was only one problem the FA was wearing a yellow USAPA lanyard. Gate agent gave FA dirty look. FA knew what was going on but ignored it.

There were 7 other non-revs waiting in the gate area. The plane's captain came up the jetway and the FA saw him talking with the gate agent with agent pointing at her. Captain and gate agent come over to FA and tell her that she won't be allowed on the plane wearing that yellow USAPA lanyard. FA is stunned, but she tells them she won't be taking it off because she doesn't have to. Captain and gate agent go off to chat. Boarding commences and FA is watching what's going on.

FA calls a friend with Hub Access -- sure enough there are seats left and she's number 1 non-rev. As boarding progresses FA notices the 7 other non-revs are gone. FA goes to the window and watches the gate agent escort the 7 non-revs on the ramp and up the jetway stairs onto the aircraft. FA tells other agent she knows what's going on, agent says there are no seats, sorry. FA calls someone at the company who then in turn calls the ONT station manager.

When plane lands in ONT station manager greets the flight and tells everyone to stay onboard the have to get an accurate passenger count. Sure enough, flight came in with 7 more passengers than what was listed.

LAS gate agent was suspended
Pilots are under review for violating a ton of FARs.

ALPA then has the balls to call FA at home and harass her for her side of the story. FA told them they have her written letter of the account and that is sufficient. FA says ALPA can consider her a "hostile witness" against the pilots.

How utterly stupid! People are going to lose their job over this.

This isn't the wild west anymore people. Stuff like this should make all of you mad. Whatever happens tomorrow there is never an excuse for this type of bullcrap ever happening.

Later,
Eye

 

[FlightChic]

I rest my case. This is the most immature bullsh!t I have ever seen. When will you boys grow up? This is ridiculous! Why can't you just freakin get along? Peace! :bleh:

 

[oldiebutgoody]

ALPA will be using OUR dues money to defend this pilot's action, at least until tomorrow.

 

[EastUS]

You're right it doesn't.

This isn't the wild west anymore people. Stuff like this should make all of you mad. Whatever happens tomorrow there is never an excuse for this type of bullcrap ever happening.

I'd personally not wish to see anyone fired for this, but; that's indefensible BS that should be sanctioned in some fashion. NO ONE will ever be denied any seat on any aircraft I'm flying regardless of whether they're attired in a full suit of "I Love Alpa" stickers/lanyards/etc, nor should any such thing even factor in for anyone. "Treat us like professhunuhls..we're not F--kin' stooopid" is well and good...How about growing up and actually conducting yourselves AS actual professionals.....