ALPA/USAPA/Pilot Labor Thread for the week 4/12-4/19

[Leonidas]

Does anyone know if USAPA is going to pursue or keep open the section 6 avenue for either the west side or east side if straight transition talks break down?

Didn't ALPA try to pursue section 6 for the west towards the end? Where does that stand?

well that was a strategic move by the west, section 6 is officially open so the company can't change our contract, it also forces usapa to negotiate for the west, and opens yet another avenue for dfr.

 

[N924PS]

She was REPLACED as committee chairman by the MEC. The resignation came later. I wasn't there, just read the shenanigans.

Now, go lick your wounds.

I'm not wounded at all. Nothing has or will change for me as a result of the election.

I'm very pleased actually, that so many of the East pilots got what they wanted. I just hope they are not disappointed again with respect to seniority integration under USAPA. I believe the West will prevail and the Nicolau Award stands as is.

However, at least ALPA is gone, which most wanted more than overturning the Nic. That could be a good thing for East and West in the long run. Only time will tell.

Tracy is razor sharp and I understand she will serve the same role under the new union banner.

 

[ableoneable]

I'm not wounded at all. Nothing has or will change for me as a result of the election.

I'm very pleased actually, that so many of the East pilots got what they wanted. I just hope they are not disappointed again with respect to seniority integration under USAPA. I believe the West will prevail and the Nicolau Award stands as is.

However, at least ALPA is gone, which most wanted more than overturning the Nic. That could be a good thing for East and West in the long run. Only time will tell.

Tracy is razor sharp and I understand she will serve the same role under the new union banner.

Surprise, surprise, it looks like USAPA is going to re-cycle the same ALPA east pilots who got them LOA93, pension termination and the Nicolau award. Same people under a different union banner expecting radically different results. That will work.

 

[fr8tmastr]

I'm here to steal your job, now can't we all just get along.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the East does not want your job. Just in case you didnt get that, the East does not want your job. They do however want to protect their own jobs. There is a big difference.
I dont think the West can say the same. Please prove me wrong
USAPA has stated the West can set their own fences and protections in any way they want. So again even USAPA does not want your job.
I know this does not sit well with all the "greedy Easties" and all the other nasty names some of you guys come up with, but it is fact.
I do think however that all new flying should be shared per the TA

 

[ableoneable]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the East does not want your job. Just in case you didnt get that, the East does not want your job. They do however want to protect their own jobs. There is a big difference.
I dont think the West can say the same. Please prove me wrong
USAPA has stated the West can set their own fences and protections in any way they want. So again even USAPA does not want your job.
I know this does not sit well with all the "greedy Easties" and all the other nasty names some of you guys come up with, but it is fact.
I do think however that all new flying should be shared per the TA

No, you want our jobs. At least a few, autofixer comes to mind, have admitted as much.

Assuming we don't merge again and oil does not suddenly drop to $70/bbl USAir is going to start shrinking and furloughing pilots. If USAPA gets their way these furloughs will follow a DOH methodology. I will soon downgrade and be junior to east pilots who were on the street when the merger was announced.

If I am one day recalled I will get a chance to yank gear for a guy who was on the street when I was in the left seat.

That is both theft and a windfall, but just keep telling yourself it's not theft if that helps you look at yourself in the morning. No-one else believes it, however.

Your side has no honor or integrity.

 

[sharktooth]

well that was a strategic move by the west, section 6 is officially open so the company can't change our contract, it also forces usapa to negotiate for the west, and opens yet another avenue for dfr.

The company cannot "change" your contract anyway, whether you open section 6 or not.

Are you fishing for dfrs?

 

[sharktooth]

Surprise, surprise, it looks like USAPA is going to re-cycle the same ALPA east pilots who got them LOA93, pension termination and the Nicolau award. Same people under a different union banner expecting radically different results. That will work.

Actually, Tracy was not part of the give away gang that led to LOA 93, the pension termination and the "nic". She was one of the few who could fought the GAGers.

An inexperienced person was voted in as chair, displacing Tracy. He then begged her to stay as vice-chair. Her letter was addressing his request.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

If I am one day recalled I will get a chance to yank gear for a guy who was on the street when I was in the left seat.

Only fair. You were in junior high school when he was in the left seat.

Then, you would get to argue with YOUR union about how valuable YOUR time with the company is.

 

[sharktooth]

No, you want our jobs. At least a few, autofixer comes to mind, have admitted as much.

Assuming we don't merge again and oil does not suddenly drop to $70/bbl USAir is going to start shrinking and furloughing pilots. If USAPA gets their way these furloughs will follow a DOH methodology. I will soon downgrade and be junior to east pilots who were on the street when the merger was announced.

If I am one day recalled I will get a chance to yank gear for a guy who was on the street when I was in the left seat.

That is both theft and a windfall, but just keep telling yourself it's not theft if that helps you look at yourself in the morning. No-one else believes it, however.

Your side has no honor or integrity.

You have quite an imagination, sir. I hear "24" is looking for writers thinking of improbable situations.

 

[Bear96]

The "nic" was never ratified in any way.

The parties to the arbitration (the East pilots and the West pilots) "ratified" it when, through their respective MECs, they agreed to submit to binding arbitration in the first place.

If there is some sort of additional requirement that the parties somehow had to "approve" the award before it became binding on them, please share it (i.e., please quote the specific language you are referring to and share its source). Otherwise, according to well-established arbitration law, when parties agree to go to BINDING arbitration, it means just that - the outcome is BINDING on the parties.

But believe what you want to.

 

[JetMonkey]

Only fair. You were in junior high school when he was in the left seat.

Then, you would get to argue with YOUR union about how valuable YOUR time with the company is.

Only fair??? U got to be sh!ting me. What did he ever do to put that guy in the street in the first place? Your statement is ridiculous.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

The parties to the arbitration (the East pilots and the West pilots) "ratified" it when, through their respective MECs, they agreed to submit to binding arbitration in the first place.

If there is some sort of additional requirement that the parties somehow had to "approve" the award before it became binding on them, please share it (i.e., please quote the specific language you are referring to and share its source). Otherwise, according to well-established arbitration law, when parties agree to go to BINDING arbitration, it means just that - the outcome is BINDING on the parties.

But believe what you want to.

It is. It's binding on ALPA, since the arbitration took place under their guidelines. Anyone else would have used DIFFERENT guidelines and the result would have been different. All USAPA has to do is specify a definition of the term "Seniority" in Chapter 22 (I believe) of the contract they negotiate with the company. Or, they could just change the verbage to "longevity" and "presto" all better!

Look, nobody is out to screw anybody here, I hope. I know that the intentions of the East guys aren't to screw the West folks. Can't speak for the other way, though.

Why don't we just settle down and see how this thing progresses before we get our bloomers in a bunch over it.

 

[EastUS]

That is both theft and a windfall, but just keep telling yourself it's not theft if that helps you look at yourself in the morning. No-one else believes it, however.

Your side has no honor or integrity.

Let's see now: You can establish fences for full west protection as you wish. The east isn't interested in stealing your positons or equipment, no one intends on "stealing" anything you have out there, and your entire "poor-pitiful-victim" position's pure BS. Are we good so far?

"No-one else believes it, however. " The votes indicate otherwise, as does amazing support for USAPA's election from many sources that you don't even see from your side.

"Your side has no honor or integrity." Sigh...Grow up. Good night. Let's give this some time to settle in.

 

[Borescope]

You all are going to spend a lot of time and money getting nowhere. You should have stayed with ALPA. If you think (East Pilots) that your new union is going to solve things for you, you have another thing coming. It is going to take you a really long time to get anything done. IMO you have screwed yourself. The management at your company is laughing all the way to the bank. They know that it's going to take some time to get it together to even be able to sit down and negotiate. In the mean time you won't have to worry about fences and the sort as by the time you finally get a contract most of the senior guys are going to be retired. Enjoy your measly paycheck. You won't be seeing any raises for awhile

 

[EastUS]

You all are going to spend a lot of time and money getting nowhere. You should have stayed with ALPA.

All present have long since spent a lot of time and money getting nowhere...It's the true Alpoid way in fact. Thankfully...that's finished. If you had ANY honest concern for the pilot groups here you could have found better ways of indicating that than by a hearty, celebratory after asserting just how bad things will supposedly be...but; that self-obsessed/"I wish YOU ill and I just want MINE" is fully typical of Alpoids.

Where's my Alpo-fly swatter?