Airbus Ruling

[sentrido]

Fine with me.

 

[cavalier]

We may be working in Alabama but its better to "have a job when looking for another" as we have all been told over and over.

[post="186847"][/post]​

AP Tech:

Just to let you know...and even if hard to believe, there is work out there outside of U. Just a few hours ago a friend and fellow mechanic called to tell me it looks like he will soon be employed at GE with: Better future, money, benefits, and most of all, peace of mind.

I know for a fact and if you PM I'll divulge more, that certain trade skills are sorely lacking qualified individuals. Seems all the kids want to be computer guru's and forgot about the trades. Don't let U get you down. You were born into this world and U didn't give you your first breath nor will it give your last...Hang Tough

 

[ClueByFour]

If there are no labor agreements the judge has two choices: imposition or liquidation. We will see, but I think as early as next Thursday or by October 12 there could be 23% pay cuts imposed and outsourcing permitted.

With ©, yes. With (e), no.

I can see the IAM losing a © motion, perhaps on the A330s. They won't lose a (e) motion.

And if they do, they walk. Goodbye airline.

This ruling helps the IAM (-M) in a large way.

 

[Smartest Loser]

I concur, the ruling can only help the IAM at the table.

 

[justaumechanic]

The win will be hollow..

The company has no intention of doing any of that work in-house.. None..

What will the judge do? So fare he's done just about anything they want him to do.

The company will petition that the LCC's with the exception of Southwest do no do their work in-house and Southwest has the ability in their contract to outsource anything they want.. Southwest chooses to do some of its work in-house.

The company is going to want language similar to that.. The ability to do what it wants whenever it wants when it concern Maintenance..

Bronner wants the work in Alabama but he has no interest in taking the IAM with it. He wants the IAM to do the same thing at US Airways they did at United.. Give up all the Heavy work in favor of keeping the pension.. Which of course is a joke now.

 

[Winglet]

I think Lakefield's going to go for broke (pardon the expression) with the mechs. He's going to want the whole store, including big layoffs, outsourcing at will, and forgiveness of any future judgements in association with the arbitration. The moment of truth is approaching. Bend over and take it like a $5 hooker, or walk and tell Lakefield to jam it. He'll come up with some thin excuse to try and emergency contract out current work to keep things lurching along saying that the work stoppage isn't legal therefor the scabs he hires aren't really scabs.

 

[UAL_TECH]

Bronner wants the work in Alabama but he has no interest in taking the IAM with it. He wants the IAM to do the same thing at US Airways they did at United.. Give up all the Heavy work in favor of keeping the pension.. Which of course is a joke now.

[post="187058"][/post]​

justaumechanic,

???

Can you 'splain dis 2 me?
:blink: UT

 

[USA320Pilot]

ALPA attorney's told the MEC that Judge Mitchell has the right and jurisdiction to prevent S.1113© "self help". The attorney's said the court will protect the debtor and will do what is necessary to help the company emerge from bankruptcy, Moreover, the attorney' said the judge has significant latitude.

Separately, ALPA MEC chairman Bill Pollock briefed the MEC yesterday in "open session" that the IAM has asked the company to begin negotiations on Tuesday, October 5, and the union said it now wants to reach an interim and long-term labor accord. The union asked the company "to present a proposal", according to Pollock.

The IAM request came less than 12 hours after ALPA obtained a TA.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[cavalier]

ALPA attorney's told the MEC that Judge Mitchell has the right and jurisdiction to prevent S.1113© "self help". The attorney's said the court will protect the debtor and will do what is necessary to help the company emerge from bankruptcy, Moreover, the attorney' said the judge has significant latitude.


Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

[post="187069"][/post]​

Why didn't the "judge" throw out everything UAL requested?

Why would this "judge" in U's case, be any different?

This is not a one way street. There are going to be agreements or there will not be an airline because the unions cannot and will not be discounted like the picture you paint, making it look easy for them.

Mark my words, if it goes as far as dealing with the IAM, for example the airline is still here because ALPA said ok, the IAM is the next major road block that will kill U for good.

Watch and see......date it here 10/02/04 cavalier said it.

 

[justaumechanic]

justaumechanic,

???

Can you 'splain dis 2 me?
:blink: UT

[post="187064"][/post]​

Sure.. I can explain it to you..

Senior Mechanics at UAL under the IAM sold out the heavy maintenance, Oakland Base, Indy base to save their DB pension plan.. Pretty simple.. Then AMFA took over..

How many got cut when Oak, Ind shut down? How many when SFO droped HMV and BCP?

Now the DB pension is going to be thrown out.. UAL mechs will get a 401K match... Thats it..

Did I explain it OK?

 

[USA320Pilot]

Cav:

Do not "shoot the messenger". I simply reported what the attorney's said, that's all.

Regards,

USA320pilot

 

[justaumechanic]

Cav:

Do not "shoot the messenger". I simply reported what the attorney's said, that's all.

Regards,

USA320pilot

[post="187082"][/post]​

You sure do like to hurl in the Nukes!!!

The ALPA MEC leader knows the IAM is going to meet with the company yet the IAM membership has not been told this? Interesting.

Not shooting the messenger either. It will be amazing if the IAM reaches a TA with the company.. The company is very clear on a few items.. They DO NOT WANT TO DO THE AIRBUS WORK IN HOUSE.. They do not want CLEANERS.. They do no want to do any HEAVY WORK AT ALL.. The company would like to get down to approx. 900 mechanics system wide..

Southwest has over 400 aircraft and 11 maintenance stations. We have 283 aircraft and we have 18 maintenance stations not including GSE stations. jetBlue has what, 8 Mtc stations, America West has 10, maybe less.

It is highly doubtful the company and the IAM will reach a long term agreement.. With the Airbus HMV coming up this month the ruling puts a major strain on the entire negotiations.. The company has no incentive at all..

 

[ClueByFour]

ALPA attorney's told the MEC that Judge Mitchell has the right and jurisdiction to prevent S.1113© "self help". The attorney's said the court will protect the debtor and will do what is necessary to help the company emerge from bankruptcy, Moreover, the attorney' said the judge has significant latitude.

That's impressive, because nobody really knows what will happen in the post-S1113/1114 environment. It's never happened.

You might want to read http://www.bnabooks.com/ababna/railway/2003/rlabank.doc and http://www.lowenstein.com/new/Unionlabor020303.pdf.

The former, in particular, is a fascinating read. I'm not a lawyer, but I'm gonna bet (based on the UA case as well as the way the judge in the U case handled prepetition greivence matters in the first case) that he does not rule against self help if the company has a S1113© motion granted.

 

[cavalier]

Cav:

Do not "shoot the messenger". I simply reported what the attorney's said, that's all.

Regards,

USA320pilot

[post="187082"][/post]​

Ok fine. I just don't think it will happen. If it does, why pay union dues?

The laws are not that twisted as to discount labor totally and if they are, then we are all in trouble because the courts will decide your very life. A few worn out tired old men who are convinced they know what's best for everyone, just like communism or socialism and not like USA. USA where the entire planet moved to get away from those very same failed systems.

If it was as easy as you portray, every company in this country would suddenly become distressed in order to create slave wages, work rules and benefits.

Checks and balances are in place to avoid this...it's NOT a one lane bridge.

If it’s that bad, close the doors for God’s sake so people go get on with their lives.

 

[UAL_TECH]

Sure.. I can explain it to you..

Senior Mechanics at UAL under the IAM sold out the heavy maintenance, Oakland Base, Indy base to save their DB pension plan.. Pretty simple.. Then AMFA took over..

How many got cut when Oak, Ind shut down? How many when SFO droped HMV and BCP?

Now the DB pension is going to be thrown out.. UAL mechs will get a 401K match... Thats it..

Did I explain it OK?

[post="187081"][/post]​

justaumechanic,

Other than your misinterpation of the facts, I think you did pretty good.
FYI, the DB plan was never included in our negotiations.
Other than than that, you are pretty much on the target (of being clueless that is).

Did I 'splain it OK?
:blink: UT