Afa To Challenge 21% Wage Cut In Court

[cavalier]

If it does not ratify, the judge will impose...will you then attempt to shut down the company and disrupt operations?

We all sholud have been months into our new agreements now fighting the enemy, the other airlines and the price of fuel...not our own company!

[post="195399"][/post]​

UYH....you are not using your head having not figured out the "fact" one can NOT reason with pitbull, it's her way or you need pills, are crazy, evil, living in an altered reality, and all kinds of other very negatives thrown at you.

This women lives in a surreal reality where everyone agrees with her or they "must" be mad. Trust me, you’re wasting your time with her kind.

Remember twicebaked, they were pals big time until he disagreed with her, then he was evil, no good, nuts, flip flop, on and on. Twice myself and many others are now on her S---it list because we don't fall lock step into her world view. Used to be friends until the sun came out.

 

[PITbull]

UYH,

If the pilots by majority did not ratify, what would you have done..sued the entire membership?

It is up to the company to accept a package that the f/as can ratify.

If the f/as as a majority do not ratify..


I WILL FIGHT WITH THE FLIGHT ATTENDANTS TO GROUND 0.

 

[Justme]

OK, what are we doing here? Wasting time? Enough is Enough! Put this so-called HORRIFIC Tentative Agreement out for the masses to vote on, seems as though this is very similar to the September 10th Company proposal. My God, you people know how to beat a dead horse!

Right now, this tentative agreement is FAR better than not having a job at all! We will never have the work rules of the past AGAIN and that is a shame, but we all have to make sacrifices and move on.
:angry:

[post="195201"][/post]​

 

[Justaramper]

Please realize that in some cases {FS}, people are taking a 50% paycut from there original highest hourly wage {2001}. Is the job worth it..?

Some have left and went back to school, some have quit and some have returned. But what does the future hold for this company..?

Ready Reserve is a concept from the Railroad and will not really work in the airline business. Pay increases of less than $1 over 5 years won't attract many workers.

Trying to pay Mainline Express wages in all but 6 cities is not going to keep many people here, so I look forward to sub-contacters getting a majority of the work in those cities. You will get what you pay for and the service will be terrible

It's a sad situation for this company, better management could have avoided this debacle

 

[FWAAA]

If it does not ratify, the judge will impose...will you then attempt to shut down the company and disrupt operations?

We all sholud have been months into our new agreements now fighting the enemy, the other airlines and the price of fuel...not our own company!

[post="195399"][/post]​

You don't get it. B)

The other airlines aren't the enemy. The price of fuel is not the enemy.

Management is the enemy. 😀

Funny how the employees at every ailing legacy airline blame their management for being stupid and causing all the problems.

What are the odds that the management at six different competitors in a hurting industry are all incompetent? Billions to one? Trillions to one?

It's not OBL's fault. It's not consumers' fault. It's Management's fault. Uh - huh.

Even sadder is that some are unwilling to bail out when things are terrible - they want to stay and help make sure the CFIT happens.

 

[UseYourHead]

PitBull,

If the majority of pilots would have been foolish enough to not ratify this agreement, we would have gone back to the table and produced an even worse one...oh ya, we would already have had a 21% paycut along with other undesirable goodies.

Management would have gotten even more creative and the pilots would have paid the price...as we did throughout the foolishness over the past few months.

So to answer your question, there is not a better deal out there, only a worse one as the clock continues to tick. If AFA votes it down it will get worse, not better.

This is NOT section 6, that is another day where at some point we will regain some leverage...that time is clearly not now.

DUH

PS I am not sueing anyone, that is the RC4 and that group of scumbags....

UYH,

If the pilots by majority did not ratify, what would have have done..sued the entire membership?

It is up to the company to accept a package that the f/as can ratify.

If the f/as as a majority do not ratify..
I WILL FIGHT WITH THE FLIGHT ATTENDANTS TO GROUND 0.

[post="195404"][/post]​

 

[usfliboi]

Pitbull, it is obvious your a little out of touch. First and foremost, my fellow flight attendants, all know the facts here. Do we like it ? NOPE! We know what has to be done, and the days of blame are over. We also know, without concessions this company will not survive. We also know we have a choice to leave or stay. Personally,after 17 years, Im not sure ill be able to afford the paycuts. I have the option of moving on though. Im not going to decide for another co worker who can and will stay. The time for the personal attacks on this management team and the last and the last, have come to an end. Believe what you want, whether its union busting or not, it is reality. I have chosen to make the best out of it and look at all the facts concerning this industry, not just this company...

 

[BostonTerrier]

OK, what are we doing here? Wasting time? Enough is Enough! Put this so-called HORRIFIC Tentative Agreement out for the masses to vote on, seems as though this is very similar to the September 10th Company proposal. My God, you people know how to beat a dead horse!

[post="195201"][/post]​

Whatnow,

I respect your position. The manner in which the company is leading negotiations may very likely result in a labor meltdown. Should AFA send this proposal out for ratification? This proposal radically changes our contract and our future. Both for ourselves and the furloughees that may return to the company should it survive.

But let's start discussing some of the specifics of the proposal and the ramifications. Hopefully PITbull may be able to clarify some of these matters.

1. What is the projected number of furloughs simply due to the loss of the ITD fence and the loss of flying options. I'm more interested in the number of projected furloughs absent the voluntary furlough no recall. How many active flight attendants would the company require with the February schedule? How many active flight attendants with the 150 aircraft scheme?

2. Loss of pension. New DC plan. Will our members be able to provide for their retirements?

3. Long Term Disability. Better be careful out there. One year waiting period to collect 50% of your salary; 25% employee contribution (which I don't exactly understand. Will this be a deductible from our monthly paychecks?)

4. Fragmentation: the airline is sold and split up. Everyone is out of a job, even if the company prospers and is later sold.

5. Deadhead pay and credit. What are the scheduling ramifications? How many days might this add to your schedule?

6. Recall of Furloughees. This I consider to be a moral issue. Should someone that is recalled under this provision really be given a salary of 16 bucks an hour?

7. Monthly Flying Obligation. Under this clause the VP can change the flight time obligation for lineholders at ANY time, before or during the month. Is this fair? What will the disciplinary ramifications be?

8. Sick Bank: 60 hours max reserve and a bunch of stipulations.

9. 15% pay cut, in addition to all of the nickel and dime changes to per diem and premiums. All day pay. This will all add up to be a far more significant pay cut than simply 15%.

I'm just throwing issue out there for feedback as to what is necessary and reasonable. I do believe that the vast majority of flight attendants can find comparable and/or better career opportunities than this.

As for the VFNR, the most senior will leave and the most junior will likely quit. I'm sure that many would put in for the VFNR, but how many with 6-18 years seniority would be awarded it? I would think that it would be difficult to determine just what seniority level per base would be on reserve. So I would refute the idea that many more people will gain lines, as UYH contends. With the change in flying options, and resignations, seems hard to predict where people would stand as to bidding. The most senior on the 55 and 75 will now be flying the VP's 80-95. That eats away a lot of trips.

Is this the best that will be offered? Can AFA do better? Is this a job that you would still want? Are the benefits adequate for yourself and your family? Can you live on this salary? Can you comfortably retire?

Dunno.

Best to all,
BT

 

[PITbull]

Whatnow,

BT,

The LTD 1 year waiting period to collect is for NEW HIRES. The rest that you stated is correct.

Can't tell you with any accuracy the furloughs that will take place. If there was no attrition, and NOT counting the returnees on Dec 2, of approx 600, the company according to their first proposal in June would need 1,627 furloughs. This according to our AFA financial analyst who first sat down with the company to get all the information we needed to negotiate.

There has been attritions since July and with the VISP 1 and 2 approx 339 have taken that, which decreases the numbers for the december returnees that initially was over 1,000. I do know that the proposals and subsequent ratification will cause many furloughs, along with the fence coming down, as well. The options will be gone and folks obligated to fly at LEAST 80-100 of company flown time, and as much as they want from flight attendant trip trade time.

The company will not tell us what the furlough situation will be how many or when. I know that PIT inflight lost 4 operational superviors out of 7. Therefore, the writing is on the wall for PIT after the first of the year. Then it depends what productivity imporvements we ratify, will also cause furloughs as that is its purpose.

So, the only piece in my opinion that will ratify the transformation concession is the VF/NR. This package is open to every f/a. If too many leave, they will probably stagger the furlough. Those f/as who choose to say that were reserve will then be block holders, however the NEW reserves will be displaced because of the many holes in the bases from this type of leave all on a reduced wage.

I suspect, (since I wrote the genesis of that vf/nr and presented it to the MEC and negotiating committee), that hundereds maybe thousands will leave. That will be the piece that will create a ratification. I personally am trying to ensure that all f/as who want the job can have it, and those who want to leave, can...and bridge over to another job or career. The company already has demonstrated that they don't want topped out older population of workers. In fact, they even mention it in the Oct. 20 proposal with new language to hire off the street and recalling of INVOL furloughees (except MAA) at no more than a 6 yr. rate. So, Dismantling it will be; no experience necessary.


Then folks like usfliboi can keep on flying, up, up and away with his new found future in the NEW U. Exactly what he wanted.. be happy and in bliss with thier new world order along with the likes of Useyourhead and USA320.

However, if it FAILS, then we will have a fight on our hands...all the way out.

 

[ACrazy8]

Thank you PitBull.


I think in the end, we all want those who wish to stay in the "new era" the ability to do so. And those of us who wish to leave and pursue something new and different, a little incentive to finally move on...... 🙂

 

[UseYourHead]

I suspect massive departures too PitBull. I guessone question to ask is: Would you start over at jetBlue? Or some other entry level LCC, as it appears that our jobs are migrating that direction, like it or not...a market driven reality, not so much the world according to Jerry Glass.

If it fails to be ratified PitBull, do you have any question as to the judge ruling something as bad or worse in the 1113c proceeding?

Are you saying that you would work to make the company fail out of spite?

BT,

I suspect, (since I wrote the genesis of that vf/nr and presented it to the MEC and negotiating committee), that hundereds maybe thousands will leave. That will be the piece that will create a ratification. I personally am trying to ensure that all f/as who want the job can have it, and those who want to leave can. The company already has demonstrated that they don't want topped out older population of workers. In fact, they even mention it in the Oct. 20 proposal with new language to hire off the street and recalling of INVOL furloughees (except MAA) at no more than a 6 yr. rate. So, Dismantling it will be; no experience necessary.
Then folks like usfliboi can keep on flying, up, up and away with his new found future in the NEW U. Exactly what he wanted.. be happy and in bliss with thier new world order along with the likes of Useyourhead and USA320.

However, if it FAILS, then we will have a fight on our hands...all the way out.

[post="195496"][/post]​

 

[usfliboi]

Pitbull, you go girl...You prepare for a fight, arm yourself, and get your stump speeches ready. At any rate, while im "up up and away', ill look down and see you on the streets in pit, in a halfway house, trying to explain to someone wholl listen, where the union went wrong. 🙂

 

[UseYourHead]

Reminds me of the steel days...textile...etc. The world has changed, the membership must adapt or they will be commited to a world of have-nots.

What is happening to us at US Airways, in fact, all of us in the airline industry is nothing new...it happens....

Pitbull, you go girl...You prepare for a fight, arm yourself, and get your stump speeches ready. At any rate, while im "up up and away', ill look down and see you on the streets in pit, in a halfway house, trying to explain to someone wholl listen, where the union went wrong. 🙂

[post="195526"][/post]​

 

[UseYourHead]

PitBull,

I have been in the industry longer than you, and have worked for more airline than you have as well...those of us who are realistic about today's situation simply understand acceptable from not acceptable...we are under no illusions as to what awaits us out in job market land.

Yes, there are other jobs out there, this one is not nearly as bad as you are saying it will be.

Would you continue to work for another airline, assuming someone would hire you?

Then folks like usfliboi can keep on flying, up, up and away with his new found future in the NEW U. Exactly what he wanted.. be happy and in bliss with thier new world order along with the likes of Useyourhead and USA320.

However, if it FAILS, then we will have a fight on our hands...all the way out.

[post="195496"][/post]​

 

[PITbull]

PitBull,

I have been in the industry longer than you, and have worked for more airline than you have as well...those of us who are realistic about today's situation simply understand acceptable from not acceptable...we are under no illusions as to what awaits us out in job market land.

Yes, there are other jobs out there, this one is not nearly as bad as you are saying it will be.

Would you continue to work for another airline, assuming someone would hire you?

[post="195532"][/post]​

Hey Sparky,

At your current position of approx $134,000, I don't see you in the bread line anytime soon. You need to hold on to your seat. As far as the f/as saving that seat for you and throwing themselves overboard with a YES vote to keep you and the likes of your kind happy...don't bet on it. I am but one vote....I don't carry the f/a group. You have to penetrate at least 51% with..."just how good they have it here".

Just how many airlines have you worked, and what is your years in the business? No fabricating...

Do you know what airline I worked for briefly before U?????

Take a guess?

Would I work for another airline, with communistic mind-set of workers like yours? Natta one.

IMO, your profession is over along with everyone elses. You'll have as much respect from the traveling public as the bus driver down the street.