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USA320Pilot
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- May 18, 2003
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- #241
Watching It All Fall Apart for Herndon
U-Turn Nation:
CJ Szmal just doesn’t get it or even understand what he isn’t getting. In his Web Board missive, Szmal went on to say:
I personally don't like the use of roll call votes…
And those that don’t like roll call votes misunderstand one of the basic building blocks of a representative democracy: the concept of representatives representing, by vote, the exact number of those they represent. You know, the one-man, one vote thing.
That concept was embedded in the U.S. Constitution and finally enforced (nearly 180 years later) by the United States Supreme Court in Gray Vs Sanders (1963). The case involved Fulton County Georgia, which comprised over 14% of the state population, but had less than 2% of the state Senate votes. The “Supremes†found that: “The use of this election system in a statewide election violates the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.â€
Of course CJ doesn’t like roll call votes. For him they are an anathema to the individual power of an elected Rep. And when used, roll call votes are a signal to the rank and file that everything isn’t well in Mudville.
But this is the same “CJ†who argued that he could form a coalition with what he regarded as the moderate CLT Reps to control a combined MEC and take the power away from the those “Wadical Wust-heads:â€
If we remain ALPA, C062 brings a large number of roll call votes to the combined MEC. Combined with lets say the CLT votes, the voting block would reign supreme. A definite change to the current block of PHL and PIT.
So here we have CJ Szmal arguing that roll call is a “good thing†in one paragraph and then arguing that it is a “good bad†in the next. Obviously he can’t have it both ways. Szmal went on to say:
That fact has not been lost on your Reps and we certainly know that certain East Reps cherish the day the Roll Call 4 are no longer able to roll call their agenda into MEC directives.
You’ve got to love the “CJisms.†The irony is, with the removal of ALPO comes the end of roll call votes. The construct of USAPA cuts out the power of the “Waskily Wustheads.†In fact, it might even cost those “Waskily Wustheads†their elected positions. USAPA, like them or not, is committed to block voting (hopefully they advocate an odd number of Reps, precluding ties). And block voting eliminates roll call votes. No wonder Fed Ex has embraced the concept. But even if ALPO survives, the East has the votes to take us to block representation anyway.
SHIFT CHANGE AT THE CARWASH
While our MEC comes out with one “Save ALPA†pronouncement after another and one bash at the East after another, the word must have already filtered down to McIlvenna that the property is already all but lost. No better example than McIlvenna’s “180†and admonition on the Web Board:
Subject: SPECIAL NOTICE FROM MEC CHAIRMAN
Author: JOHN MCILVENNA
Date: 21 Sep 2007 12:08 AM
Originally Posted: 21 Sep 2007 12:06 AM
All:
I am going to ask all AWA pilots (and especially our regular chat board residents) to please refrain from posting inflammatory material on any and all ALPA National or other web boards and please show respect and consideration and courtesy to their ALPA brothers and sisters on the east.
I will say that the hard work has yet to come. I fully expect to be in a representation election in a matter of days. And we will need all US Airways pilots - east and west - to pull together else we may not make it over the next set of hurdles.
There is a very long road ahead and it will require a lot of dedication and effort to navigate this road.
Thank you for your cooperation with my request.
Fraternally,
John McIlvenna
AWA MEC Chairman
Amazing…after four months of non-stop bashing of the East, McIlvenna now wants our Web Board mavens to cool their jets and throttle back to idle. He wants us all to play nice in the sandbox. WHY?
If you think it is merely because we won the battle at the EC, you would be only partially correct. The most likely reason is ALPA let Johnnie see the Wilson Polling results. The polls probably told Herndon what they fear the most: it isn’t going to make any difference what the EC did last week, the cards to vote ALPA off the island were there…BEFORE the four EC resolutions.
Yep, no doubt that ALPA is in a heap of trouble and might not be able to stay the course at the new US Airways. And now Herndon needs the West MEC’s help. Tone down the rhetoric is McIlvenna’s message. But it was only a message on the Web Board, not added to any MEC update, nor circulated by the MEC.
For the past four and a half months, U-Turn has been warning against this West MEC bashing of the East. And for McIlvenna to ask for a rhetorical “cease-fire†this late in the process is evidence that his miscalculations have come home to roost. Perhaps the Hotline Lies and the Jurassic jabs of John Jurik on the National Web Board are gone. But it’s too little and too late. While ALPA attempts to save the property, their fate may have already been determined. The legacy of this MEC will be its bashing the East to the point where even the moderates in CLT said enough is enough. And when there is no longer an ALPA Web board on which to post, all we at U-Turn can say is:
We told you so!
May 25
We expect that the east will put out communications that will likely distort the true meaning of this resolution…
May 29
The East leadership’s capitulation during the arbitration to demands of the extreme fringe of their pilot group who insisted that their Merger Committee pursue a date-based strategy that was entirely unsupportable (a capitulation that, we believe, actually undermined their case before the Panel) gives us little comfort that there is even now the political will on their part to make the hard decisions that these circumstances call for. Indeed, the East’s Hot line message to its pilots describing the Executive Council’s Resolution once again demonstrates that they are seriously misjudging the situation.
July 23
Some on the East think that they are the first to come up with this idea (e.g. threatening ALPA with a decertification drive because they are upset over a policy, procedure or lack thereof), and even I am impressed with how far the East MEC is getting with the EXCL and ALPA staff with this threat. This is no doubt a threat; however, the playbook is out there. While I have no desire to waste millions of dollars and years trying to repave the same roads that others have done before us, I think that the AWA MEC made it clear to the US Airways MEC and ALPA—bring it on.
And remember this little gem from the most recent Alert Height, entitled “Mickey Mouse Tactics?â€
While the East MEC persists in it search for decoys to negate the final and binding Nicolau Award, your MEC continues to plan for the long run…
Lately, the East MEC has increased its hostility toward our pilot group. Instead of focusing their time and energy on attaining a joint contract that improves all of our livelihoods, especially that of their own membership, the East holds Special MEC meetings in which obstructive resolutions are passed. Some examples include: continued insistence on a date-of-hire seniority integration, attempting to exclude West union negotiators from positive space travel, their desire to maintain permanent separate operations, and seeking to prevent West pilots from listing (via IVR) for the jumpseat on our own metal.
In a disgraceful turn of events, the East MEC recently withdrew their JNC members from joint negotiations while demanding that their pilots only be brought up to parity. This was met with a timely response form Mr. Parker that suggests that the East pilots will receive parity as part of a negotiated agreement with the West pilots.
The AWA MEC stands ready to engage with our East comrades in a meaningful way. Valuable time, which could have been spent advancing the JNC talks, has been squandered.
We congratulate the Fleet Service workers on achieving a single contract during their recent NMB mediated talks with management. Theoretically, the combined pilot group should be in the same position. Had the JNC process sustained the same momentum it had prior to the issuance of the Nicolau Award, it’s possible that our own “close out†talks with management would have already taken place. It’s well pat time for the East MEC to move on and help all US Airways pilots achieve the joint contract we deserve.
We’ll continue to keep you posted on any developments. Please watch for further updates on this dynamic situation.
U-Turn Nation:
CJ Szmal just doesn’t get it or even understand what he isn’t getting. In his Web Board missive, Szmal went on to say:
I personally don't like the use of roll call votes…
And those that don’t like roll call votes misunderstand one of the basic building blocks of a representative democracy: the concept of representatives representing, by vote, the exact number of those they represent. You know, the one-man, one vote thing.
That concept was embedded in the U.S. Constitution and finally enforced (nearly 180 years later) by the United States Supreme Court in Gray Vs Sanders (1963). The case involved Fulton County Georgia, which comprised over 14% of the state population, but had less than 2% of the state Senate votes. The “Supremes†found that: “The use of this election system in a statewide election violates the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.â€
Of course CJ doesn’t like roll call votes. For him they are an anathema to the individual power of an elected Rep. And when used, roll call votes are a signal to the rank and file that everything isn’t well in Mudville.
But this is the same “CJ†who argued that he could form a coalition with what he regarded as the moderate CLT Reps to control a combined MEC and take the power away from the those “Wadical Wust-heads:â€
If we remain ALPA, C062 brings a large number of roll call votes to the combined MEC. Combined with lets say the CLT votes, the voting block would reign supreme. A definite change to the current block of PHL and PIT.
So here we have CJ Szmal arguing that roll call is a “good thing†in one paragraph and then arguing that it is a “good bad†in the next. Obviously he can’t have it both ways. Szmal went on to say:
That fact has not been lost on your Reps and we certainly know that certain East Reps cherish the day the Roll Call 4 are no longer able to roll call their agenda into MEC directives.
You’ve got to love the “CJisms.†The irony is, with the removal of ALPO comes the end of roll call votes. The construct of USAPA cuts out the power of the “Waskily Wustheads.†In fact, it might even cost those “Waskily Wustheads†their elected positions. USAPA, like them or not, is committed to block voting (hopefully they advocate an odd number of Reps, precluding ties). And block voting eliminates roll call votes. No wonder Fed Ex has embraced the concept. But even if ALPO survives, the East has the votes to take us to block representation anyway.
SHIFT CHANGE AT THE CARWASH
While our MEC comes out with one “Save ALPA†pronouncement after another and one bash at the East after another, the word must have already filtered down to McIlvenna that the property is already all but lost. No better example than McIlvenna’s “180†and admonition on the Web Board:
Subject: SPECIAL NOTICE FROM MEC CHAIRMAN
Author: JOHN MCILVENNA
Date: 21 Sep 2007 12:08 AM
Originally Posted: 21 Sep 2007 12:06 AM
All:
I am going to ask all AWA pilots (and especially our regular chat board residents) to please refrain from posting inflammatory material on any and all ALPA National or other web boards and please show respect and consideration and courtesy to their ALPA brothers and sisters on the east.
I will say that the hard work has yet to come. I fully expect to be in a representation election in a matter of days. And we will need all US Airways pilots - east and west - to pull together else we may not make it over the next set of hurdles.
There is a very long road ahead and it will require a lot of dedication and effort to navigate this road.
Thank you for your cooperation with my request.
Fraternally,
John McIlvenna
AWA MEC Chairman
Amazing…after four months of non-stop bashing of the East, McIlvenna now wants our Web Board mavens to cool their jets and throttle back to idle. He wants us all to play nice in the sandbox. WHY?
If you think it is merely because we won the battle at the EC, you would be only partially correct. The most likely reason is ALPA let Johnnie see the Wilson Polling results. The polls probably told Herndon what they fear the most: it isn’t going to make any difference what the EC did last week, the cards to vote ALPA off the island were there…BEFORE the four EC resolutions.
Yep, no doubt that ALPA is in a heap of trouble and might not be able to stay the course at the new US Airways. And now Herndon needs the West MEC’s help. Tone down the rhetoric is McIlvenna’s message. But it was only a message on the Web Board, not added to any MEC update, nor circulated by the MEC.
For the past four and a half months, U-Turn has been warning against this West MEC bashing of the East. And for McIlvenna to ask for a rhetorical “cease-fire†this late in the process is evidence that his miscalculations have come home to roost. Perhaps the Hotline Lies and the Jurassic jabs of John Jurik on the National Web Board are gone. But it’s too little and too late. While ALPA attempts to save the property, their fate may have already been determined. The legacy of this MEC will be its bashing the East to the point where even the moderates in CLT said enough is enough. And when there is no longer an ALPA Web board on which to post, all we at U-Turn can say is:
We told you so!
May 25
We expect that the east will put out communications that will likely distort the true meaning of this resolution…
May 29
The East leadership’s capitulation during the arbitration to demands of the extreme fringe of their pilot group who insisted that their Merger Committee pursue a date-based strategy that was entirely unsupportable (a capitulation that, we believe, actually undermined their case before the Panel) gives us little comfort that there is even now the political will on their part to make the hard decisions that these circumstances call for. Indeed, the East’s Hot line message to its pilots describing the Executive Council’s Resolution once again demonstrates that they are seriously misjudging the situation.
July 23
Some on the East think that they are the first to come up with this idea (e.g. threatening ALPA with a decertification drive because they are upset over a policy, procedure or lack thereof), and even I am impressed with how far the East MEC is getting with the EXCL and ALPA staff with this threat. This is no doubt a threat; however, the playbook is out there. While I have no desire to waste millions of dollars and years trying to repave the same roads that others have done before us, I think that the AWA MEC made it clear to the US Airways MEC and ALPA—bring it on.
And remember this little gem from the most recent Alert Height, entitled “Mickey Mouse Tactics?â€
While the East MEC persists in it search for decoys to negate the final and binding Nicolau Award, your MEC continues to plan for the long run…
Lately, the East MEC has increased its hostility toward our pilot group. Instead of focusing their time and energy on attaining a joint contract that improves all of our livelihoods, especially that of their own membership, the East holds Special MEC meetings in which obstructive resolutions are passed. Some examples include: continued insistence on a date-of-hire seniority integration, attempting to exclude West union negotiators from positive space travel, their desire to maintain permanent separate operations, and seeking to prevent West pilots from listing (via IVR) for the jumpseat on our own metal.
In a disgraceful turn of events, the East MEC recently withdrew their JNC members from joint negotiations while demanding that their pilots only be brought up to parity. This was met with a timely response form Mr. Parker that suggests that the East pilots will receive parity as part of a negotiated agreement with the West pilots.
The AWA MEC stands ready to engage with our East comrades in a meaningful way. Valuable time, which could have been spent advancing the JNC talks, has been squandered.
We congratulate the Fleet Service workers on achieving a single contract during their recent NMB mediated talks with management. Theoretically, the combined pilot group should be in the same position. Had the JNC process sustained the same momentum it had prior to the issuance of the Nicolau Award, it’s possible that our own “close out†talks with management would have already taken place. It’s well pat time for the East MEC to move on and help all US Airways pilots achieve the joint contract we deserve.
We’ll continue to keep you posted on any developments. Please watch for further updates on this dynamic situation.
That should calm the waters.
That IS shocking news.
