AAA ALPA Thread 9-21 to 9-27

[ableoneable]

AWA320,

Are you scared? It appears so. By the way the cards are authentic, they are signed by the pilot, and they're signature will match the company provided signature. I find it interesting that you need to use Internet Message Board posts to further your cause.

By the way, my wife takes my mail to the post office. How about you?

By the way, the USAPA roster/card audit is nearing completion and things are going better than anticipated! In addition, another mailing with cards and a letter will be sent to those pilots who have not yet submitted a card this week. This final push and the last furlough recall class event should wrap things up and there will be many more cards submitted than required. Expect the NMB Form 1 to be submitted soon.

By the way no cards were paid for. Grasping at straws...

Regards,

USA320Pilot

Keep dreaming dude.

1. The votes are not there.
2. Even if they were, in the absence of a single carrier ruling, only the east goes bye bye.
3. If USAPA were to become the bargaining unit they would inherit the transition agreement which specifies that ALPA merger policy determines seniority.
4. If through an act of god they were able to overcome obstacles 1 through 3 they would still need the west to ratify a new contract. Your pay will never increase.
5. It freightens me that you are allowed to vote and to drive a car.

 

[Mr Furlough]

Let's see - the East wants all of the upgrades and growth, and none of the furloughs (including for guys who were on furlough until just a few months ago), yet claims that the West is being unreasonable.

To be accurate, he stated that the fulough protection must reflect the years of service for our pilots. In other words; furlough in reverse longevity.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Able said: The votes are not there.

USA320Pilot comments: As an AWA pilot how do you know?

Able said: Even if they were, in the absence of a single carrier ruling, only the east goes bye bye.

USA320Pilot: If the company obtains its single operating certificate tomorrow do you believe the DOL will rule that the two pilots groups are not a single carrier? And, if the pilot groups are represented by two different unions then there can be no joint contract negotiated or Nicolau Award implementation until the representation issue is resolved.

Able said: If USAPA were to become the bargaining unit they would inherit the transition agreement which specifies that ALPA merger policy determines seniority.

USA320pilot comments: There are two different legal opinions on that and it could be up to a court of law to decide that point.

Able said: If through an act of god they were able to overcome obstacles 1 through 3 they would still need the west to ratify a new contract. Your pay will never increase.

USA320Pilot comments: First off, the majority of East pilots would prefer to live under LOA 93 and prevent the Nicolau Award from being implemented than to obtain a joint contract and have the Nicolau Award implemented. Furthermore, this could force the AWA pilots to enter Section 6 negotiations, which is fine with the East pilots. Meanwhile, the East would continue to capture its attrition and pilots would see pay increases. For example, pay increases will occur for F/O’s when they upgrade on the EMB-190, when reserves become lineholders, First Officer’s Group II Captain’s, and narrowbody pilots widebody pilots. And, on January 1, 2010 each pilot will receive about a $12,000 bonus and then another $12,000 bonus on January 1, 2011 per LOA 93.

Also noteworthy, there will be 490 pilots added to the seniority list next year with almost all of them based east of the Mississippi River and more PHL to Europe and to the Far East expansion.

Thus, the East pilots do receive meaningful pay increases. What do the AWA pilots get during this period? Stagnation and their current contract. But, what options do the West pilots have? Two. Negotiate a “realistic solutionâ€￾ to the Nicolau Award per the Rice Committee recommendations or likely become a part of USAPA.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[ClueByFour]

By the way no cards were paid for. Grasping at straws...and do not worry, imposition will not hurt to bad.

Yeah, because it won't change Nicolau, and absent an SBU ruling by the NMB is about as useful as bovine mammaries.

 

[hp_fa]

OMG, you just gave away my thunder. I copied that post and already mailed it to ALPA and the NMB. Oh well I would have rather that hit Bradofrd and their version of Herb Holland USA320 like a sledge hammer...

Sorry, but it was glaringly apparent to me as soon as I read the threads what he had actually said when a composite picture was put together. The really funny things are:

1. that he doesn't know when it is smarter to shut up; and,
2. apparently the interim president (I don't want to mistype his name because I have no axe to grind against him and mispelling his name may look intentional) either has no one better to be speaking with or wants all of this information (or misinformation) in the public domain. As I said elsewhere when USA320Pilot published the contents of the lawyer's letter to the "Interim President" of USAPA, I wondered what kind of client would pay for legal advice and then publish it on the internet, especially since litigation is far more then probable in this ongoing mess.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Yeah, because it won't change Nicolau, and absent an SBU ruling by the NMB is about as useful as bovine mammaries.

Thats today. What about tomorrow when the single certificate is enacted? Do you think the NMB will rule to keep the pilot groups separate? Either way at some point in time there will be a merger, either under USAPA or ALPA.

 

[ableoneable]

Able said: The votes are not there.

USA320Pilot comments: As an AWA pilot how do you know?

Because less than 400 have sent in any cash. Most card senders are likely in Jetz camp. They wanted to send a signal to ALPA. These same pilots recognize the futility of USAPA. USAPA's reason d' etre is to take out the Nicolau award. Because there is no mechanism available to do this USAPA will be still borne.

Able said: Even if they were, in the absence of a single carrier ruling, only the east goes bye bye.

USA320Pilot: If the company obtains its single operating certificate tomorrow do you believe the DOL will rule that the two pilots groups are not a single carrier? And, if the pilot groups are represented by two different unions then there can be no joint contract negotiated or Nicolau Award implementation until the representation issue is resolved.

Clearly you are confused about how this would play out. Get back to me after you do some reading.

Able said: If USAPA were to become the bargaining unit they would inherit the transition agreement which specifies that ALPA merger policy determines seniority.

USA320pilot comments: There are two different legal opinions on that and it could be up to a court of law to decide that point.

WRONG. When your independent counsel says; "Yes it is possible (but improbable) that a new union could disregard the Nicolau award, just as it is possible (but improbable) that you may also develop X-ray vision. We would be more than happy to continue to take your money to persue this possibility." You are hearing "Yes there is a very good chance that we can circumvent the Nicolau award."

Able said: If through an act of god they were able to overcome obstacles 1 through 3 they would still need the west to ratify a new contract. Your pay will never increase.

USA320Pilot comments: First off, the majority of East pilots would prefer to live under LOA 93 and prevent the Nicolau Award from being implemented than to obtain a joint contract and have the Nicolau Award implemented. Furthermore, this could force the AWA pilots to enter Section 6 negotiations, which is fine with the East pilots. Meanwhile, the East would continue to capture its attrition and pilots would see pay increases. For example, pay increases will occur for F/O’s when they upgrade on the EMB-190, when reserves become lineholders, First Officer’s Group II Captain’s, and narrowbody pilots widebody pilots. And, on January 1, 2010 each pilot will receive about a $12,000 bonus and then another $12,000 bonus on January 1, 2011 per LOA 93.

You have repeated this paragrpah almost verbaitim forever. It is no more true now then when you first wrote/copied it. You have no idea what the majority of the east pilots want. Listen to what Jetz is saying and ask yourself if he is the ONLY east pilot who wants to persue all avenues. He is clearly not interested in finishing off his career under LOA93.

Also noteworthy, there will be 490 pilots added to the seniority list next year with almost all of them based east of the Mississippi River and more PHL to Europe and to the Far East expansion.

Thus, the East pilots do receive meaningful pay increases. What do the AWA pilots get during this period? Stagnation and their current contract. But, what options do the West pilots have? Two. Negotiate a “realistic solutionâ€￾ to the Nicolau Award per the Rice Committee recommendations or likely become a part of USAPA.

ALPA is concerned that a decertification effort could snowball. To that end they will spend every available dollar to enforce the Nicolau award and marginalize USAPA. The agency shop rule applies only to ALPA, it would not apply to USAPA and west pilots would continue to pay their dues to ALPA. Furthermore they would never ratify an USAPA contract and you would live under LOA93 forever.
Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[TheLarkAscending]

Speaking of USAPA Authorization Cards -- today I had 3 more pilots sign cards, I took them to the Post Office, bought stamps, and then mailed the cards to USAPA.

By the way, my wife takes my mail to the post office. How about you?

:wacko:

:unsure: Holy Pony Express! Make up your mind!

 

[Tiger 1050]

AWA320,

I find it interesting that you need to use Internet Message Board posts to further your cause.

Ummmmm? Isn't that what you are doing now? :huh:

 

[hp_fa]

Now the investigators or attorneys are going to be questioning USA320Pilot's wife regarding his veracity about who takes mail to the P.O. and whether he or she have been stuffing the P.O.'s ballot boxes. OMG this is getting funnier by the minute.

 

[aquagreen73s]

Assuming NAMES DELETED BY MODERATOR have a valid marriage according to the laws of the state in which they are domiciled, then both have an inter-spousal immunity privilege and neither could be forced to testify against the other. But you're certainly right hp, the entertainment value HH-East provides is better than anything on Comedy Central. It's because of him that I'm addicted to these stupid boards! Well, not entirely because of him, but he's certainly a reason I log on.

MOD NOTE: DO NOT IDENTIFY OTHER POSTERS BY NAME.

 

[AWA320]

AWA320,

Are you scared? It appears so. By the way the cards are authentic, they are signed by the pilot, and they're signature will match the company provided signature.

Yup worried to death


I find it interesting that you need to use Internet Message Board posts to further your cause.

Hello Pot meet kettle

By the way, my wife takes my mail to the post office. How about you?

Nope not married to a servant but a career female take my own mail to the post office!!

By the way, the USAPA roster/card audit is nearing completion and things are going better than anticipated! In addition, another mailing with cards and a letter will be sent to those pilots who have not yet submitted a card this week. This final push and the last furlough recall class event should wrap things up and there will be many more cards submitted than required. Expect the NMB Form 1 to be submitted soon.

Been waiting for this for months and you keep saying and have been sayin this same same thing for a really long time. Get'er done already why don't ya???


By the way no cards were paid for. Grasping at straws...and do not worry, imposition will not hurt to bad.

So you say on usaviation today but too late you already screwed the pooch on this one yesterday


And it's "hurt TOO bad in that context genius!!


USAPA like DOH is DOA long live truth, HONESTY and understanding binding is BINDING!!!

Regards,

USA320Pilot

Frats brother

 

[700UW]

Able said: The votes are not there.

Able said: If USAPA were to become the bargaining unit they would inherit the transition agreement which specifies that ALPA merger policy determines seniority.

USA320pilot comments: There are two different legal opinions on that and it could be up to a court of law to decide that point.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

Actually there will be no court of law to decide the RLA and NMB are quite clear on this.

I have all ready posted numerous instances of a change of representation does not change the CBA nor give the new union to renegotiate the CBA until Section 6 negotiations are to take place when the CBA becomes amendable.

 

[Bear96]

I find it interesting that you need to use Internet Message Board posts to further your cause.

is right.

Yet another classic. This guy is hilarious.

 

[BottomFeeder]

Actually there will be no court of law to decide the RLA and NMB are quite clear on this.

I have all ready posted numerous instances of a change of representation does not change the CBA nor give the new union to renegotiate the CBA until Section 6 negotiations are to take place when the CBA becomes amendable.

Hey 700UW

You figured it out. The current CBA is held by the newly elected union UNTIL the new section 6 negotiations are held. What do you thing is going on right now? Well that would be Section 6.

USAPA will inherit the current CBA and then the negotations for a new section 6 will begin. Single carrier will be determined by the recent events. The single operating certificate is a big one.

USAPA will charge ALL East and West dues and assessments for the agency shop.

If you don't pay your dues then your are in bad standing. This will cause you to lose your vote on the new TA that will come under the newly elected USAPA.

Thanks for clearing up the confusion the West has about the event that are going to occur.