AAA ALPA Topic 8/31/07 - 9/06/07
- Thread starter USA320Pilot
- Start date
- Status
electricjet98
Senior
When it is stated so publically that their number 1 goal is to diminish the Nic Award, I don't think the judge will need a Wilson Poll of the east pilots to decide on the merits of our lawsuits!
The AA guys split from ALPA many years before Aviation Medical Services contracted with ALPA. Therefore, they as well as LUV were considered "new" pilot groups rather than "previous ALPA" groups.
You and I may not be that far apart in what we consider to be an outcome that would be workable for both sides; especially when compared to the alternative of fighting, stagnation & lawsuits for years to come. I just think that the liklihood of lawsuits between the two groups is greatly increased if we split from ALPA before the Nik award is implemented and accepted. It is simply much easier to make advancements in our working conditions (CBA) if all of our guns are pointed at the enemy, rather than each other!
And thanks for the friendly, courteous discussion!
hp_fa
Veteran
- Feb 19, 2004
- 3,290
- 178
Also a breach of contract case in regards to the TA would likely not be considered frivilous.
AAA73Pilot
Veteran
- Jul 18, 2007
- 1,513
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Weak Brain??? Easy to influence???
Another card, just the same. His vote counts the same as mine, and yours.
AAA73Pilot
Veteran
- Jul 18, 2007
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And thanks for the friendly, courteous discussion!
Your welcome. No need to be anything else. We will continue to disagree and thats ok too.
AAA73Pilot
Veteran
- Jul 18, 2007
- 1,513
- 0
I know what I have and had with ALPA. More than willing to take my chances with USAPA. Unless you have another alternative, I have no choice but to support them.
dariencc
Veteran
- Dec 4, 2006
- 1,284
- 1,912
Were those east pilots you supposedly correspond with the source of your repeated b.s. about the lagging USAPA card count?
Yeah, I'm sure they have flown with USA320Pilot and trashed his piloting skills. :down:
For the record, I have almost never agreed with USA320Pilot on Alpa/company related issues. For most of my career, we have been on the same equipment and in the same base. I have flown with a ton of pilots who have flown with him and also didn't agree with his opinions, but not one has ever trashed his piloting skills. In fact, most say they enjoy working with him.
You gave yourself away with this little maneuver,DELETED BY MODERATOR. What a sleazy operator!
MOD NOTE: Do NOT identify members by name without their express permission.
Junebug172
Veteran
- Sep 26, 2002
- 629
- 1
Then you need too talk to Garland about it. And if they were going to target Prater and ALPA, they would have gone to Herndon. Boy, for a USAPA guy, you sure like defending ineptitude.
If I may, again:
----------------------------------
Dear Fellow Pilot,
Garland's comments that attached are 100% accurate and I totally agree with him. Furthermore, his comment that "If this MEC doesn't have the fighting spirit to meet all comers in stopping the implementation of the Nicolau Award, even in 100 degree heat in PHX, then I belong in a Union who does."
For those of you fence sitters, do you want ALPA International Negotiating for you instead of your own pilot group? Or would it be better to have a union that has US Airways pilots negotiating for US Airways pilots?
I know for fact that ALPA is scared about being replaced and I wonder why? It is clear that we are approaching the reconciliation of our problems. What is not clear is who will negotiate for you.
Regards,
Cxxx
Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.
BOS Pilots,
Head's up, and you're hearing it first.
In my view:
1. The Rice Committee is going nowhere in formulating a "consensual solution" acceptable to either East or West. They're on square one, and will remain there.
2. As a result of ALPA National's poll of US Airways pilots, Prater, the Executive Council and the Rice Committee now believe that the East pilots have a price at which they can be bribed to accept the Nicolau Award.
3. The AWA Executive Vice President (EVP), representing them on the Executive Council (we don't have an EVP of our own, because some members of our MEC voted for an Atlantic Southeast pilot instead), will be bringing a Resolution before the EC later this month that will force the immediate release of the Nicolau Award.
4. As we on the East are no longer participating in JNC negotiations until we reach Pay Parity with the West, ALPA National may be informing us shortly that they intend to negotiate at the JNC in our behalf.
5. The MEC's decision to not follow through with our "Pay Parity Now" Picketing event at the Company's HQ in Tempe was a huge mistake, and will be viewed by Prater, the EC, the West and Doug Parker as a weakening in our resolve to remain a separate operation with a separate, equivalent value contract (after all, the mover of that Resolution voted against taking our fight to PHX, and the seconder's votes weren't even counted, as he neither showed up nor left his proxy).
I see a sellout coming, and I'm no longer sure who is really for or against it.
As I've told you, not on my watch. If this MEC doesn't have the fighting spirit to meet all comers in stopping the implementation of the Nicolau Award, even in 100 degree heat in PHX, then I belong in a Union who does.
We shall soon see.
Garland
"You must take the war to the enemy. You must attack and go on attacking all the time."
— Major Willy Omer François Jean Coppens de Houthulst, Belgian Air Service, 37 victories W.W.I..
dariencc
Veteran
- Dec 4, 2006
- 1,284
- 1,912
Yeah, ok, we'll "just remember" it.
Please just remember that, unlike you, we can utilize the cockpit jumpseat to get around. That seat does not come under the jurisdiction of HR's nonrev policy. It is governed by Federal Air Regulations and the US Airways Flight Operations Manual. Funny but neither one includes such a restriction. I guess they forgot about this important issue when writing them.
Thanks for the help. If we have any further questions, we'll ask the nearest lav truck operator where we can find you.
B
BottomFeeder
Guest
No, it's about having a union that is interested in OUR interest.
ALPA is about dues monies. Why else would they be worried about us leaving?
Where is the National Contract or National Senority List?
Where are the Universal ID cards or why do we do drug testing?
When have you heard anything about a SOS?
See ALPA lost it's balls and it has become a politicians retirement home.
Hit the nail on the head, sir!
ableoneable
Veteran
- May 6, 2007
- 711
- 0
Deleted.
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Nov 9, 2003
- 16,512
- 5,865
- Banned
- #298
I don't, and if you're ever in GSO we'll spend 6-8 beers worth of time while I tell you everything that I think is wrong with ALPA - we'd probably agree on 99% of the things. If I seemed to be implying that your support for USAPA is based on getting the award thrown out, I apologize because that wasn't my intent. I was only pointing out that USAPA itself says that it offers the best chance of overturning/voiding the award, which opens the door to suits that wouldn't be thrown out as frivolous if USAPA attempted it.
Jim
OP
USA320Pilot
Veteran
- May 18, 2003
- 8,175
- 1,539
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #299
Junebug,
After reading your missive I elected to do some research and what I now know is that you not only misrepresented information, you flat out lied on this board! Moreover, like Jack Stephan publicly indicated your MEC misrepresents information and I now believe members of your MEC lie just to discredit. What’s wrong? Are you scared of the US Airways MEC and USAPA effort?
And you wonder why the East MEC and the East pilots are fighting this award. I am going to post every misleading email you send because every email you send strengthens our resolve!
Since you and your colleagues are flat out lying about me on your message board and you appear to want to do a little mud slinging, I understand at one time there was a pilot who served on the AWA MEC Secretary/Treasurer and then he was elected a First Officer Representative. But, he resigned as the First Officer Representative three months after taking office “family reasons.†Well I have been told by a MEC pilot that he really quit because ALPA did an audit of the AWA MEC finances and they found out that he had been paying unauthorized expenses, including 41 cents per mile for MEC Officers, MEC Representatives, and selected committee members to and from the MEC office.
Junebug, with all due respect, is that true? If true, it appears he was not not only are you a liar, but a thief too.
Meanwhile, your representation and information regarding the Wilson Poll is inaccurate.
And, I now believe your suggestion that the majority of the East pilot group is prepared to vote "yes" to accept the Nicolau award in exchange for a pay raise is nonsense. Is there a price where people can be bought? Absolutely, but Doug Parker is not going to pay it and you know it; therefore so what!
There are PLENTY of Captains negatively affected by this award and the number is climbing every day. Furthermore, you need to understand that the most senior of the "Nicolau free" East pilots continue to retire each month. Therefore, the disparity of Award implementation continues to increase as East pilots move up the list due to east attrition. More and more affected pilots remain active with a vote.
Yes, some of the Wilson Poll information has been discussed but your interpretation is flat out wrong.
As far as Russ Weber submitting a resolution to the company to have the EC immediately pass it on to the Company, I say go ahead. Furthermore, what else do you expect an AWA ALPA EVP to do? Sit by, watch the parade go by, and watch the AWA MEC lose the fight?
However, if the EC ever did for ward the Award I guarantee that would give USAPA a stunning victory and the will represent both the US Airways and AWA pilots. John Prater clearly knows that and is the reason he cleared his schedule for 1.5 weeks to visit 6 US Airways crew bases. Moreover, today I was told by an EC member that the EC is very concerned that ALPA will be replaced by USAPA, and if so and it happens, are you ready for the “imposition�
Meanwhile, the fight is just beginning. As you know Jack Stephan sent a letter to John Prater requesting a special meeting of the Executive Council to consider the matter of US Airways receiving a single operating certificate. According to Arnie Gentile, “We believe that this is a violation of the Transition Agreement which requires “separate operations†until the pilot integration has occurred. We initially asked that this dispute be filed in approximately May 2007. However, because the America West pilots did not support this dispute, it has not yet been filed.â€
Finally, our MEC and the majority of East pilots are very unified in our effort to fight the Nicolau Award and obtain pay parity. The wheels are not coming off of our MEC, but could that be happening to the AWA MEC and are you reaching out to me because you are desperate with new union “imposition†on the horizon?
As far as canceling the Tempe picketing event, there were good reasons to do so, such as 2-3 days to conduct the event, the financial impact on the MEC budget, and reason to believe the AWA MEC and their pilots were going to try to disrupt the event and use the media for their own purpose.
According to Arnie Gentile, “Some members of the MEC had strong opinions on both sides of this issue, as concerns were brought forward. But in the end, the main issues discussed to cancel the event centered around effective media, and using MEC financial resources to conduct this event in an attempt to get an effective response from management, which would include receiving equal pay for equal work. The MEC will decide where the allocation of their resources is most effective and will discuss future SPC plans at next week's quarterly meeting. Our "Equal Pay for Equal Work†message will be displayed this week on the streets of Tempe and Phoenix using a highly visible mobile billboard that shows what the MEC thinks of management's two tier pilot pay scale. We'll post a picture of the billboard shortly.â€
Junebug, when would now be a good time to stop misrepresenting information? If you were so sure of your position then why do you need to keep posting infomration about the subject it? You’re not scared are you? Me thinks so…
Am I hot and now even more motivated to fight the Nicolau Award? Absolutely, because it is one thing to debate issues with some people on this board, but you take the cake and I believe you are doing more to encourage East pilots to fight then any other person! Keep up the good work!
Regards,
USA320Pilot
After reading your missive I elected to do some research and what I now know is that you not only misrepresented information, you flat out lied on this board! Moreover, like Jack Stephan publicly indicated your MEC misrepresents information and I now believe members of your MEC lie just to discredit. What’s wrong? Are you scared of the US Airways MEC and USAPA effort?
And you wonder why the East MEC and the East pilots are fighting this award. I am going to post every misleading email you send because every email you send strengthens our resolve!
Since you and your colleagues are flat out lying about me on your message board and you appear to want to do a little mud slinging, I understand at one time there was a pilot who served on the AWA MEC Secretary/Treasurer and then he was elected a First Officer Representative. But, he resigned as the First Officer Representative three months after taking office “family reasons.†Well I have been told by a MEC pilot that he really quit because ALPA did an audit of the AWA MEC finances and they found out that he had been paying unauthorized expenses, including 41 cents per mile for MEC Officers, MEC Representatives, and selected committee members to and from the MEC office.
Junebug, with all due respect, is that true? If true, it appears he was not not only are you a liar, but a thief too.
Meanwhile, your representation and information regarding the Wilson Poll is inaccurate.
And, I now believe your suggestion that the majority of the East pilot group is prepared to vote "yes" to accept the Nicolau award in exchange for a pay raise is nonsense. Is there a price where people can be bought? Absolutely, but Doug Parker is not going to pay it and you know it; therefore so what!
There are PLENTY of Captains negatively affected by this award and the number is climbing every day. Furthermore, you need to understand that the most senior of the "Nicolau free" East pilots continue to retire each month. Therefore, the disparity of Award implementation continues to increase as East pilots move up the list due to east attrition. More and more affected pilots remain active with a vote.
Yes, some of the Wilson Poll information has been discussed but your interpretation is flat out wrong.
As far as Russ Weber submitting a resolution to the company to have the EC immediately pass it on to the Company, I say go ahead. Furthermore, what else do you expect an AWA ALPA EVP to do? Sit by, watch the parade go by, and watch the AWA MEC lose the fight?
However, if the EC ever did for ward the Award I guarantee that would give USAPA a stunning victory and the will represent both the US Airways and AWA pilots. John Prater clearly knows that and is the reason he cleared his schedule for 1.5 weeks to visit 6 US Airways crew bases. Moreover, today I was told by an EC member that the EC is very concerned that ALPA will be replaced by USAPA, and if so and it happens, are you ready for the “imposition�
Meanwhile, the fight is just beginning. As you know Jack Stephan sent a letter to John Prater requesting a special meeting of the Executive Council to consider the matter of US Airways receiving a single operating certificate. According to Arnie Gentile, “We believe that this is a violation of the Transition Agreement which requires “separate operations†until the pilot integration has occurred. We initially asked that this dispute be filed in approximately May 2007. However, because the America West pilots did not support this dispute, it has not yet been filed.â€
Finally, our MEC and the majority of East pilots are very unified in our effort to fight the Nicolau Award and obtain pay parity. The wheels are not coming off of our MEC, but could that be happening to the AWA MEC and are you reaching out to me because you are desperate with new union “imposition†on the horizon?
As far as canceling the Tempe picketing event, there were good reasons to do so, such as 2-3 days to conduct the event, the financial impact on the MEC budget, and reason to believe the AWA MEC and their pilots were going to try to disrupt the event and use the media for their own purpose.
According to Arnie Gentile, “Some members of the MEC had strong opinions on both sides of this issue, as concerns were brought forward. But in the end, the main issues discussed to cancel the event centered around effective media, and using MEC financial resources to conduct this event in an attempt to get an effective response from management, which would include receiving equal pay for equal work. The MEC will decide where the allocation of their resources is most effective and will discuss future SPC plans at next week's quarterly meeting. Our "Equal Pay for Equal Work†message will be displayed this week on the streets of Tempe and Phoenix using a highly visible mobile billboard that shows what the MEC thinks of management's two tier pilot pay scale. We'll post a picture of the billboard shortly.â€
Junebug, when would now be a good time to stop misrepresenting information? If you were so sure of your position then why do you need to keep posting infomration about the subject it? You’re not scared are you? Me thinks so…
Am I hot and now even more motivated to fight the Nicolau Award? Absolutely, because it is one thing to debate issues with some people on this board, but you take the cake and I believe you are doing more to encourage East pilots to fight then any other person! Keep up the good work!
Regards,
USA320Pilot
Tiger 1050
Veteran
- Aug 4, 2007
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