AAA ALPA Thread 9-21 to 9-27

[AWA320]

Even if his interpretation is correct you still must wonder IF the membership is as united as you claim. More often than not I hear East pilots say the fight is over and they want a contract...

That is the same thing I hear from many on the east as well!! USA320 reminds me of the guy who was in the war trapped on an island now the war has been over for decades but he doesn't seem to know it!!

 

[Busdrvr]

Click here to read an article published today in the USA Today about US Airways pilots.

Speaking of USAPA Authorization Cards -- today I had 3 more pilots sign cards, I took them to the Post Office, bought stamps, and then mailed the cards to USAPA.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

Hmm, so YOU collected cards, YOU bought stamps, and YOU mailed the cards?

I'm not sure, but you may have just broken the law....

 

[traderjake]

Besides, USAir will sit out the next round of consolidation if they get caught in years of litigation.

Does anyone believe USAirways will survive if we sit out the next round of consolidation?

I don't.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Bear 96,

You bring up a good point. If the NMB rules the East and West pilots are one unit or single carrier status then USAPA needs 50% + 1 of all pilots to force an election, which would decide who would represent the combined pilot group.

If the NMB rules the East and West pilots do not have single carrier status then is an overwhelming slam dunk to “kick ALPA offâ€￾ of the East property.

At this point you would have two different unions representing the two pilot groups, which creates a whole new scenario.

Meanwhile, while this is sorted and USAPA nears the time to file the NMB Form 1, the East MEC continues to delay the process giving USAPA more time.

Separately, ALPA Council Mike Abram was on the US Airways MEC Conference Call last Friday and according to an MEC Rep. I spoke with any joint contract requires membership ratification by both pilot groups.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[Busdrvr]

767jetz,

A pre-nup will not part of USAPA merger policy, thus, this could be a problem if US Airways attempts to acquire United again.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

Yes, but we'd join with the AWA guys, force a new union on you and staple you to the bottom.... (according to you, we COULD do that right?...)

And the beautiful part is you guys would be the ones footing the legal bills to make it precedence.

The BS gets deeper and deeper....

 

[Bud8EE]

Yes, but we'd join with the AWA guys, force a new union on you and staple you to the bottom.... (according to you, we COULD do that right?...)

And the beautiful part is you guys would be the ones footing the legal bills to make it precedence.

The BS gets deeper and deeper....

You just do what the East is doing now and refuse to enter into a single contract. Sure its a perpetual whipsaw but until this profession can wrap itself around what seniority actually is, to bad so sad.

 

[aquagreen73s]

You just do what the East is doing now and refuse to enter into a single contract. Sure its a perpetual whipsaw but until this profession can wrap itself around what seniority actually is, to bad so sad.

Let me be quite clear on that point and I'll even say that I speak for all the AWA pilots on this matter: if the East wants to vote down a CBA for the sole purpose of preventing Nicolau from being implemented, then that's fine by us and we will honor that. The flipside is that they live with LOA 93 and the inevitable whipsawing; pay parity is an absolute no-go unless it's through the JNC. But we on the West KNOW with metaphysical certainty that although a majority of the East pilots might pay lip service to the manufactured hysteria over Nicolau, that same majority does have a price in mind that will gladly sign a CBA that substantially improves their pay and quality of life, even with very minimal fences. Recall the 18-24 month plan floated by the Rice Committee to Mowrey and ask yourself where ALPA got that number? Wilson polling maybe?

The pretentious radicalism is about to end. National is going to finish the TA and send it to the East and West for ratification. I'll say it agian...as long as Doug hits the numbers, then it's a sure pass in the East - even with very minimal fences. Bank on it.

 

[Cosmo]

A pre-nup will not part of USAPA merger policy, thus, this could be a problem if US Airways attempts to acquire United again.

Again??? AGAIN?????

Let me be very clear: US Airways has never, ever, EVER, EVER attempted to acquire United. Various leaders at US Airways have talked about it and have even approached United with the idea on occasion, only to be told to pound sand each and every time except once. And that one time (in 2000/2001), United was doing the buying, offering $60.00 per share of US Airways stock. Need more proof? It was parts of US Airways, not United, that were proposed to be sold off in an attempt to appease the DOJ (with most DCA slots going to "DCAir" and half of the Shuttle going to American).

USA320Pilot, why do you persist in trying to foist upon us your unsupported allegations that US Airways has attempted to buy United in the past? Even one of your linked articles notes that all but one of US Airways' overtures to United (including "Project Minnow") were rejected out of hand, with the "one" being the above-mentioned United purchase. To use your fractured syntax, when would now be a good time to realize that your allegations have no basis whatsoever in fact and to therefore stop espousing them? :cop:

I'll leave it to the pilots to argue the pros and cons of the US Airways seniority issues, or even the likely seniority outcome for pilots in a United/US Airways merger, regardless of who buys who. But as someone who deals with airline economic issues on a daily basis, I simply won't allow USA320Pilot's baseless allegations that US Airways was ever the potential buyer of United to go unchallenged (and yes, I know others have already challenged him but I only just read this thread and this was my first opportunity to say something ).

 

[BoeingBoy]

Separately, ALPA Council Mike Abram was on the US Airways MEC Conference Call last Friday and according to an MEC Rep. I spoke with any joint contract requires membership ratification by both pilot groups.

Finally figured out what Clue (and most everyone else) has known all along.........

A joint contract would indeed require the entity formerly known as ALPA-West to independently ratify it.

Jim

 

[AWA320]

Let me be quite clear on that point and I'll even say that I speak for all the AWA pilots on this matter: if the East wants to vote down a CBA for the sole purpose of preventing Nicolau from being implemented, then that's fine by us and we will honor that. The flipside is that they live with LOA 93 and the inevitable whipsawing; pay parity is an absolute no-go unless it's through the JNC. But we on the West KNOW with metaphysical certainty that although a majority of the East pilots might pay lip service to the manufactured hysteria over Nicolau, that same majority does have a price in mind that will gladly sign a CBA that substantially improves their pay and quality of life, even with very minimal fences. Recall the 18-24 month plan floated by the Rice Committee to Mowrey and ask yourself where ALPA got that number? Wilson polling maybe?

The pretentious radicalism is about to end. National is going to finish the TA and send it to the East and West for ratification. I'll say it agian...as long as Doug hits the numbers, then it's a sure pass in the East - even with very minimal fences. Bank on it.

It's going to go with the fences provided under the award and no more! We are not about to go tinkering with that award. The east spoke already thru the wilson poll and gave the number they were looking at it was roughly $165/hr for narrow body. Now this ain't great by any means but it sure beats the snot out of LOA93 and slightly improves the rates on the west side. Now they can certainly thumb their noses at that if they want however I doubt the intelligent members will!!!!

 

[Bud8EE]

Let me be quite clear on that point and I'll even say that I speak for all the AWA pilots on this matter: if the East wants to vote down a CBA for the sole purpose of preventing Nicolau from being implemented, then that's fine by us and we will honor that. The flipside is that they live with LOA 93 and the inevitable whipsawing; pay parity is an absolute no-go unless it's through the JNC. But we on the West KNOW with metaphysical certainty that although a majority of the East pilots might pay lip service to the manufactured hysteria over Nicolau, that same majority does have a price in mind that will gladly sign a CBA that substantially improves their pay and quality of life, even with very minimal fences. Recall the 18-24 month plan floated by the Rice Committee to Mowrey and ask yourself where ALPA got that number? Wilson polling maybe?

The pretentious radicalism is about to end. National is going to finish the TA and send it to the East and West for ratification. I'll say it agian...as long as Doug hits the numbers, then it's a sure pass in the East - even with very minimal fences. Bank on it.

What would the East pilots loose by voting it down in your world? Three or Four months? Would not the Rice committee sweeten the pot to 8-10 year fences or 13-15 year fences? The next offer(fences) would have to be better. I can't speak for the East pilots but if its all a big chess games as you suggest, there is usually more to be had by rejecting the first offer. More from the company, more from ALPA, but you have it all figured out and there is no way ALPA would go back with a better deal to preserve their dues if the first one was shot down. Right? They are morally and ethically above that, aren't they?

 

[CactusFlyr]

Again??? AGAIN?????

Let me be very clear: US Airways has never, ever, EVER, EVER attempted to acquire United. Various leaders at US Airways have talked about it and have even approached United with the idea on occasion, only to be told to pound sand each and every time except once. And that one time (in 2000/2001), United was doing the buying, offering $60.00 per share of US Airways stock. Need more proof? It was parts of US Airways, not United, that were proposed to be sold off in an attempt to appease the DOJ (with most DCA slots going to "DCAir" and half of the Shuttle going to American).

USA320Pilot, why do you persist in trying to foist upon us your unsupported allegations that US Airways has attempted to buy United in the past? Even one of your linked articles notes that all but one of US Airways' overtures to United (including "Project Minnow") were rejected out of hand, with the "one" being the above-mentioned United purchase. To use your fractured syntax, when would now be a good time to realize that your allegations have no basis whatsoever in fact and to therefore stop espousing them? :cop:

I'll leave it to the pilots to argue the pros and cons of the US Airways seniority issues, or even the likely seniority outcome for pilots in a United/US Airways merger, regardless of who buys who. But as someone who deals with airline economic issues on a daily basis, I simply won't allow USA320Pilot's baseless allegations that US Airways was ever the potential buyer of United to go unchallenged (and yes, I know others have already challenged him but I only just read this thread and this was my first opportunity to say something ).

Haven't you been listening. They are always the acquiring company, even in bankruptcy.

 

[flyboeing737]

AAA into receivership

ALPA national passes a contract without East ratification.

We are proud of you Potato Chip.

 

[USA320Pilot]

AWA320,

AWA320 said: 'It's going to go with the fences provided under the award and no more! We are not about to go tinkering with that award. The east spoke already thru the wilson poll and gave the number they were looking at it was roughly $165/hr for narrow body."

USA320Pilot comments: At least you have finally hinted that there are negotiations going on for a settlement. Too bad the AWA MEC is hiding this fact from their members.

As the DCA Reps. indicated, e"ven though the Nicolau Award has been passed to the company it CANNOT BE IMPLEMENTED until there is a ratified single agreement. And there will be no agreement with the Nicholau award intact."

According to the DCA Reps, "We would need protections of longevity for our once furloughed pilots, fences to capture the attrition we brought to the list, and protections in the event of any new merger or transactions. The America West pilots and their MEC will have to understand our resolve on those issues."

Here is the deal. Either negotiate a "realistic solution" per the Rice Committee or face USAPA uncertainty in the very near future when the NMB orders an election.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[luvthe9]

AAA into receivership

ALPA national passes a contract without East ratification.

We are proud of you Potato Chip.

Somebodys been to happy hour a little to long with Parker!!