AA - NWA - SWA - Mechanic Pay Comparison

[RV4]

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On 5/16/2003 9:08:41 AM eolesen wrote:

I don''t know where it ranks compared to the CEO''s of the smaller carriers like Airtran and JetBlue, but Carty''s salary was already the lowest of his peers in the top six, and I doubt Arpey will be making what Carty did.

Now that I proved the point you were trying to make, I guess it is time to start quoting labor law, the TWU or AMFA constitution, ramblings from socialist activists, and your other deflection tactics...

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Are you inculding retention Bonuses and other undisclosed perks in your "proven point"?

 

[RV4]

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On 5/16/2003 8:44:34 AM KCFlyer wrote:




Hmmm, earlier in this thread I saw this "grass is greener on the other side" comment:

5532 Total Signed Election Authorization Cards?You think they are all happy?

So I have to wonder what these 5532 guys would think if the AMFA is voted in and 3325 of them are told "adios" because their number one goal was protecting the craft and class of the remaining members.
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Correction: UPDATED DATA

5541 Total Signed Election Authorization Cards

 

[Oliver Stone''s Apprentice]

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On 5/16/2003 839 AM RV4 wrote:

Let''s lower our Executive''s Salary to the lowest standard in the inudstry and then call it "shared sacrifice"!

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I don''t know where it ranks compared to the CEO''s of the smaller carriers like Airtran and JetBlue, but Carty''s salary was already the lowest of his peers in the top six, and I doubt Arpey will be making what Carty did.

Now that I proved the point you were trying to make, I guess it is time to start quoting labor law, the TWU or AMFA constitution, ramblings from socialist activists, and your other deflection tactics...

 

[RV4]

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On 5/16/2003 8:39:04 AM Checking it Out wrote:


Typical Reply RV4, You started the thread Correct your own Half Truths! and Quit Misleading!It is easy to put a twist on things! It is something else to be honest with the facts!

Have a Great day! ALL you TWU Brothers and Sisters!


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You obviously dont have any FACTS, so quit your bitching! It is easy to #### and whine and expect someone to do your work for you. That is the typical TWU way!

You can open tread just like anyone else can!

 

[KCFlyer]

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On 5/16/2003 8:49:42 AM RV4 wrote:

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On 5/16/2003 8:44:34 AM KCFlyer wrote:




Hmmm, earlier in this thread I saw this "grass is greener on the other side" comment:

5532 Total Signed Election Authorization Cards?You think they are all happy?

So I have to wonder what these 5532 guys would think if the AMFA is voted in and 3325 of them are told "adios" because their number one goal was protecting the craft and class of the remaining members.
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Correction: UPDATED DATA

5541 Total Signed Election Authorization Cards

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That''s wonderful, but you still haven''t addressed how the 3,352 of those voters will feel when they are sacrificed for the class and craft....

 

[RV4]

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On 5/16/2003 9:43:59 AM KCFlyer wrote:




Why bother RV4? According to you, they are screwed no matter who represents them. Only the die hard unionist would cast a vote "for" AMFA, knowing full well that they will be the sacrificial lambs to protect the class and craft of their brothers. It's nice that you would be concerned about your brothers at MCI - even though your preferred method of survival is to downsize while maintaining current pay and benefits of the survivors. Since those guys are TWAer's it's not like your hurting any AA mechanics. Perhaps you can fly in to MCI and buy them a nice steak dinner as a way to thank them for their "AMFA - yes" vote. Lord knows they'll appreciate you for it.

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You are the one that has been advocating changes in "work rules" amongst the union folk. The "work rule" changes will eliminate work force. Increased productivity, reduces work force. You have spent many hours posting about "ineffiencient" union rules. How do you advocate those changes in work rules without removing workers?

Which side are you really on?

You speak with forked tongue!

BTW, the topic is "Pay Comparison", do you know what stay "on topic" means?

 

[KCFlyer]

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On 5/16/2003 10:09:22 AM RV4 wrote:

You are the one that has been advocating changes in "work rules" amongst the union folk. The "work rule" changes will eliminate work force. Increased productivity, reduces work force. You have spent many hours posting about "ineffiencient" union rules. How do you advocate those changes in work rules without removing workers?

Sorry, I''ve never said anything about work rules. Only thing I''ve said is that I really don''t see what bringing in the AMFA at this late date will do to improve your or AA''s situation.

Which side are you really on?

Does one have to take sides?

You speak with forked tongue!

How so?

BTW, the topic is "Pay Comparison", do you know what stay "on topic" means?

SWA''s pay was negotiated by the Teamsters, not AMFA. They have also been hiring some mechanics. Seems to me that you might want to bring the Teamsters in if you want a similar deal. Your topic starter makes it look like only the companies that were represented by the AMFA are making more than AA mechanics. You really should clarify that the AMFA had nothing to do with the contract at SWA.

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[KCFlyer]

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On 5/16/2003 9:38:03 AM RV4 wrote:

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On 5/16/2003 9:27:38 AM KCFlyer wrote:




That''s wonderful, but you still haven''t addressed how the 3,352 of those voters will feel when they are sacrificed for the class and craft....
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It appears they all work at the MCI Maintenance Base, go ask them.

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Why bother RV4? According to you, they are screwed no matter who represents them. Only the die hard unionist would cast a vote "for" AMFA, knowing full well that they will be the sacrificial lambs to protect the class and craft of their brothers. It''s nice that you would be concerned about your brothers at MCI - even though your preferred method of survival is to downsize while maintaining current pay and benefits of the survivors. Since those guys are TWAer''s it''s not like your hurting any AA mechanics. Perhaps you can fly in to MCI and buy them a nice steak dinner as a way to thank them for their "AMFA - yes" vote. Lord knows they''ll appreciate you for it.

 

[will fix for food]

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On 5/16/2003 835 AM RV4 wrote:


If you like, we can also include regional comparison of Eagle (TWU) vs. Mesaba, ATA, ACA, and Horizon (AMFA).


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Here it is.



Airline Wage Status

Mesaba $24.50 (AMFA) Starting negotiations
AE $23.30 (TWU) Pay freeze TA
Horizon $22.50 In negotiations. Now AMFA, wage negotiated
by TWU
ATA $22.35 (AMFA)Unknown
ACA $21.95 (AMFA)In negotiations


Average for airlines listed is $22.91.

 

[RV4]

5850 Total Signed Election Authorization Cards

 

[Boomer]

RV4,
I''ve been talking with others from around the system: they were fairly staunch TWU guys that have now all signed cards. The feeling is that the actual number of cards held is much higher than those posted but the actual number is being sent through the organizers chain. When the finals are close, the cards will be dumped.

Others,
If you are not in the Maint. & Related Craft and Class; why does this interest you so much? Why would anyone in Management, or a Pilot, or a Passenger care what Union represents the Mechanics at AA?

Is this because RV4 has a stong opinion, and so your interest is directed at him personally, or do you guys just have a thing for Mechanics?

 

[RV4]

Boomer,

Tell those you speak with that the cards should ALL be turned in and posted!

There are many followers in our ranks and they just want to see that they are "siding" with a winner. The best thing about this drive, is the updated postings of our current status. Everyone wants know how many cards are signed and the Official Organizer Website is a great tool for us all to use.

Go Here For Official AMFA-AA Information:

[url="http://amfa-aa.home.attbi.com/"]http://amfa-aa.home.attbi.com/[/URL]


In addition, the word in Tulsa from the Shop Stewards, is that the TWU is bringing in some "Anti-AMFA" guru in from Washington D.C., to begin a campaign to bash AMFA. The fear they are exhibiting shows they know the end is near. It appears the TWU is actually hiring a mis-information minister to keep the brain-washed follower in-line.Watch this move back-fire in their face!

For all of you undecideds out there...

...This is not a "raid" by the AMFA organization. This is a real and unified movement by TWU members, IAM members, IBT members, to dump the Industrial Union Representation of the industry and UNITE ALL MECHANIC AND RELATED wokers under one Union Umbrella. It cannot be classified a "RAID", when it is coming from the grassroots of the rank and file. It cannot be classified a "RAID", when the heart of the member seeks such change. "RAID" is a term used by the AFL-CIO to prevent you from having a choice in the union representation arena. Competition creates better service.

The QUESTION for the day:

WHY WOULDN''T A MECHANIC WANT TO BE IN A MECHANIC''S UNION?

 

[Bob Owens]

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On 5/15/2003 902 AM Get Over It Already wrote:


TWU Mechanics are employed more often than AMFA Mechanics.

TWU ADVANTAGE = Our Members Are Employed!




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So are mechanics in Singapore. Want to trade places with them?

Is the goal to be employed at any price or to make money?

 

[Bob Owens]

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On 5/16/2003 10:31:33 PM Boomer wrote:

If you are not in the Maint. & Related Craft and Class; why does this interest you so much? Why would anyone in Management, or a Pilot, or a Passenger care what Union represents the Mechanics at AA?

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Management- because they do not want to see mechanics pay go up. It would eat into their profits.

Pilot- because some may not want to see mechanics pay go up. It would eat into profits and money that could be available for their pay raises and pension.

Passenger-because they do not want to see mechanics pay go up. It could make ticket prices go up.

Its all about self interests. The only real question is are we reasonable to expect that a job that requires skill, sacrifice, investment and liability pays a salary that reflects this? Is is reasonable that we should have control over the direction of a career that we initiated independantly of baggage handlers, dispatchers, truck drivers, bus drivers, lawyers and other workers or should those workers have a say in determining our rate of pay and use our competative position and aquired skills to further their own interests?

There is nothing "Anti-union" in the drive by mechanics, for mechanics to seek to collectively represent them selves. The Pilots do it. The Flight Attendandants do it. So do Plumbers, Carpenters, Electricians and scores of other crafts. In fact craft guilds were the original source of unions. Would the catch all unions accuse all of the craft unions of being "anti-union"?





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[atabuy]

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On 5/17/2003 7:28:38 AM Bob Owens wrote:

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On 5/15/2003 10:25:05 AM Get Over It Already wrote:

AA has 16000 mechanics per you, 3300 out per you = 20% on furlough

NW had 7700 mechanics in Dec, 2200 furloughed not including ATL mechanics who did not move = at least 28% on furlough



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With the pay cuts we agreed to the finacial effect is a two year layoff for 100% of our mechanics. For the company this is a bonanza. They get two years worth of free labor from all of their mechanics. They cut the cash flow as if there was a layoff but still, in theory, get the same productive capacity.


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This thread brings up the age old riddle of what came first.
The union or the company.

Imagine if you will every parents child joining the IWABA
Commonly known as the (I want a big allowance union)

No matter what a parents wage is, a child could take the biggest portion of it, not caring whether the bills got paid or not. As long as the greedy little kids got theirs, who cares.
It will be years before they have any business classes, or go to college. In fact the IWABA is in negotiations right now for the parents to get part time jobs to supplement the kids college fund.

When interviewed for comments, the kids said their parents were just inept, and stupid. They had no right to even have children. The parents are expecting another child shortly, and their health insurance has lapsed due to no funds. The kids are also bitching because the car was repossessed, and they have no way to get to baseball and field hockey games. A lawsuit is being prepared against the parents.

The parents said they would divorce, but noone wants the kids.

The children are in the process of finding better parents. The cards have all been signed, and Oliver Twist's single parent looks like a good canidate. Much easier to negotiate with one than two.