Bob i could not agree more abou the cost of living no being realistic, especially with relation to where one chooses to live. Here in PA we are lookin at a 30%+ income tax rise just to meet the budget and no increase in services. Along with pay cuts and "adjustments" to help airlines out of the red, it can equal quite a loss in income that can be spent. More and more flying is being sent to contractors or regionals, and they pay their technicians ans average of $13 to $16 an hour to start. Look for this trend throughout the industry, and many people leaving the indusrty will not look back. Which may get back to the technician/pilot shortage of the mid nineties? Good luck to all....I mean that.
AA - NWA - SWA - Mechanic Pay Comparison
- Thread starter RV4
- Start date
KCFlyer
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 11,281
- 1,427
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On 6/4/2003 5
29 AM RV4 wrote:
Have you ever noticed that the TWU wants to keep you focused on other airlines instead your own paycheck and how much less Bread and Butter there is to go around ?
I wonder why?
----------------
Gosh..I''m not privy to the TWU attempts to focus on other airlines, but I beleive that this thread about other airlines was started by an AMFA supporter....On 6/4/2003 5
29 AM RV4 wrote:Have you ever noticed that the TWU wants to keep you focused on other airlines instead your own paycheck and how much less Bread and Butter there is to go around ?
I wonder why?
----------------
- Aug 20, 2002
- 7,319
- 1,555
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On 6/4/2003 6
25 AM KCFlyer wrote:
----------------
The point is that the TWU needs to focus on their own membership also, events that the membership has no control over.On 6/4/2003 6
25 AM KCFlyer wrote:----------------
On 6/4/2003 529 AM RV4 wrote:
Have you ever noticed that the TWU wants to keep you focused on other airlines instead your own paycheck and how much less Bread and Butter there is to go around ?
I wonder why?
----------------
Gosh..I''m not privy to the TWU attempts to focus on other airlines, but I beleive that this thread about other airlines was started by an AMFA supporter....On 6/4/2003 5
29 AM RV4 wrote:Have you ever noticed that the TWU wants to keep you focused on other airlines instead your own paycheck and how much less Bread and Butter there is to go around ?
I wonder why?
----------------
----------------
The reason we get more is because is because our skills are transferrable and have a similar value outside this industry without the drawbacks of this industry.
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Bob,
This statement is not always true.
I am sure there are many mechanics on the outside right now who are working for Lowes & Home depot because mechanics jobs are not avaiable.
Unless there are many aircraft related jobs out there, most AC mech. can not go into other work because they have no training in it.
The other aspect to look at is they start at the bottom in any new job they get, so wage is an issue on the outside.
There is even disparity within the airlines as far as pay goes.
Skills are transferable but not nescessarily going to get what they got before.
----------------
Bob,
This statement is not always true.
I am sure there are many mechanics on the outside right now who are working for Lowes & Home depot because mechanics jobs are not avaiable.
Unless there are many aircraft related jobs out there, most AC mech. can not go into other work because they have no training in it.
The other aspect to look at is they start at the bottom in any new job they get, so wage is an issue on the outside.
There is even disparity within the airlines as far as pay goes.
Skills are transferable but not nescessarily going to get what they got before.
Oliver Stone''s Apprentice
Veteran
- Aug 19, 2002
- 786
- 0
----------------
On 6/5/2003 7:36:32 AM atabuy wrote:
I am sure there are many mechanics on the outside right now who are working for Lowes & Home depot because mechanics jobs are not avaiable.
----------------
On 6/5/2003 7:36:32 AM atabuy wrote:
I am sure there are many mechanics on the outside right now who are working for Lowes & Home depot because mechanics jobs are not avaiable.
----------------
One of the articles in the paper this weekend featured a furloughed mechanic who had moved from Seattle to Dallas last year to take a job as a TSA checkpoint screener, and was just laid off with their cutbacks...
----------------
On 6/5/2003 7:36:32 AM atabuy wrote:
Bob,
This statement is not always true.
I am sure there are many mechanics on the outside right now who are working for Lowes & Home depot because mechanics jobs are not avaiable.
I''ve been there, thats why we have seniority. But the idea is to keep the wage up because eventually the cycle will swing the other way and they will return to work. Hopefully by the next cycle they will have enough senoirity to not get hit. With the concessions we effectively have all agreed to a two year layoff without the option of trying to sell our labor to someone else while waiting for things to get better. In other words we all get the economic impact of a layoff while still laboring. Despite this we still saw our junior workers get laid off.
Unless there are many aircraft related jobs out there, most AC mech. can not go into other work because they have no training in it.
The economy may have made any job search more difficult but there are still opportunities. We had around 5 young guys quit already to go to ther jobs at JFK. While thats not a whole lot its more than normal especially since these guys had enough time and they were not facing a layoff. As far as the training schematics are pretty similar, whether its a plane, car, truck, control system or washingmachine. If you can troubleshoot one you can do them all with little extra training.
The other aspect to look at is they start at the bottom in any new job they get, so wage is an issue on the outside.
Starting at the bottom or heading towards the bottom, which is worse?
There is even disparity within the airlines as far as pay goes.
Skills are transferable but not nescessarily going to get what they got before.
----------------
On 6/5/2003 7:36:32 AM atabuy wrote:
Bob,
This statement is not always true.
I am sure there are many mechanics on the outside right now who are working for Lowes & Home depot because mechanics jobs are not avaiable.
I''ve been there, thats why we have seniority. But the idea is to keep the wage up because eventually the cycle will swing the other way and they will return to work. Hopefully by the next cycle they will have enough senoirity to not get hit. With the concessions we effectively have all agreed to a two year layoff without the option of trying to sell our labor to someone else while waiting for things to get better. In other words we all get the economic impact of a layoff while still laboring. Despite this we still saw our junior workers get laid off.
Unless there are many aircraft related jobs out there, most AC mech. can not go into other work because they have no training in it.
The economy may have made any job search more difficult but there are still opportunities. We had around 5 young guys quit already to go to ther jobs at JFK. While thats not a whole lot its more than normal especially since these guys had enough time and they were not facing a layoff. As far as the training schematics are pretty similar, whether its a plane, car, truck, control system or washingmachine. If you can troubleshoot one you can do them all with little extra training.
The other aspect to look at is they start at the bottom in any new job they get, so wage is an issue on the outside.
Starting at the bottom or heading towards the bottom, which is worse?
There is even disparity within the airlines as far as pay goes.
Skills are transferable but not nescessarily going to get what they got before.
----------------
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #128
The synonymous defense by management types and TWU supporters of the Industry Leading Concessions is really making me wonder why any mechanic remains with a long term goal of keeping AA Aircraft Maintained.
We are obviously out-numbered when our own union teams up with management and together wants to destroy our lives and profession.
What is very interesting is not only the mechanics I work around also seeking exit strategies to leave, but our first level Supervision appears to need a "retention bonus" also.
I think there is a method to eliminate both the TWU stooges and the Management defenders from the Industry Leading Concessions. Unfortunately, this requires action that might just violate the Railway Labor Act. Or maybe not, but you get my point! Last time I backed a mad dog into a corner, he jumped up and took a piece of my hide! My point is, reward them for their actions and expect more of the same, bite back and I bet they don't return with that attitude ever again. ASK LORENZO AND THE TWU what happened to them at EASTERN.
We are obviously out-numbered when our own union teams up with management and together wants to destroy our lives and profession.
What is very interesting is not only the mechanics I work around also seeking exit strategies to leave, but our first level Supervision appears to need a "retention bonus" also.
I think there is a method to eliminate both the TWU stooges and the Management defenders from the Industry Leading Concessions. Unfortunately, this requires action that might just violate the Railway Labor Act. Or maybe not, but you get my point! Last time I backed a mad dog into a corner, he jumped up and took a piece of my hide! My point is, reward them for their actions and expect more of the same, bite back and I bet they don't return with that attitude ever again. ASK LORENZO AND THE TWU what happened to them at EASTERN.
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #130
Read This:
June 12, 2003
Dissension in the Ranks
""Now I don''t who to trust and I don''t know what I can believe
They say they want to help me with the stuff they keep on sayin''
But I think those guys just want to keep on playin''
Roulette, with my life""
- "Roulette" by Bruce Springsteen
The essence of America''s labor unions -the principle on which they were founded- is direct participation by individual workers in the decisions that shape their occupation, their wages and their lives. That singular ability is what eventually drew so many of America''s workers to unions. In many ways, labor unions were and are the only avenue of empowerment for the working class of this country.
When union workers are deprived of that ability of direct participation, when they are made to feel irrelevant, when decisions that affect the many are continually made by the few, then members will eventually question not only the quality of their leaders, but also the relevancy of their union.
For far too long, too many unions have been overbearing bureaucracies in which the individual member does not matter. One cannot take away the single, most important reason to be a union member and not expect rebellion or some form of galvanized dissent. Not only will individual members be concerned with the lack of influence they have on their union and jobs, they will also be concerned with their union''s ability to deal with forces aimed at disintegrating organized labor.
As Congresswoman Jan Schakowsky of Illinois said recently, "Just picture another four years of a Bush Administration unfettered by concerns of re-election. Unions are not in the 2008 picture.unions will be under siege, constant well-financed referenda will happen in state after state, legal assaults and investigations will take place at every level, and we''ll always be the target of well-financed media campaigns."
The response of the rank and file is evident. Some TWU mechanics are seeking new representation. The "Pilots Defending the Profession" group is gaining more credence and support. APFA members have removed their union pins, are organizing lawsuits and petitions for the removal of union officers.
They are not taking action out of some whimsy to dissent or as "rebels without a clue". They act because, in some cases, they feel their union officials no longer represent them or their best interests. They act because they are tired of hearing their officers repeating management doublespeak that came straight from corporate headquarters. They act because they feel their voices have been silenced and their will undermined.
Of course, resistance to change is certain because so many fear change of any kind. And some want to preserve the status quo at any cost. In some cases, strong attempts will be made to stifle dissent within the rank and file. Yet, those who are dissatisfied with the direction and actions of their union probably feel as Robert Kennedy did when he said, "The future does not belong to those who are content with today."
Some actions may end up being futile. Some may not.
In the end, the motivation for change, the dissension within the ranks, perhaps comes from a desperate need for hope when so much has been taken away, so many lives terribly altered and so little hope is in the present.
And as St. Augustine said, "Hope has two beautiful children: anger and courage; anger at the way things are and courage to change them."
Steven Baumert
Dissension in the Ranks
""Now I don''t who to trust and I don''t know what I can believe
They say they want to help me with the stuff they keep on sayin''
But I think those guys just want to keep on playin''
Roulette, with my life""
- "Roulette" by Bruce Springsteen
The essence of America''s labor unions -the principle on which they were founded- is direct participation by individual workers in the decisions that shape their occupation, their wages and their lives. That singular ability is what eventually drew so many of America''s workers to unions. In many ways, labor unions were and are the only avenue of empowerment for the working class of this country.
When union workers are deprived of that ability of direct participation, when they are made to feel irrelevant, when decisions that affect the many are continually made by the few, then members will eventually question not only the quality of their leaders, but also the relevancy of their union.
For far too long, too many unions have been overbearing bureaucracies in which the individual member does not matter. One cannot take away the single, most important reason to be a union member and not expect rebellion or some form of galvanized dissent. Not only will individual members be concerned with the lack of influence they have on their union and jobs, they will also be concerned with their union''s ability to deal with forces aimed at disintegrating organized labor.
As Congresswoman Jan Schakowsky of Illinois said recently, "Just picture another four years of a Bush Administration unfettered by concerns of re-election. Unions are not in the 2008 picture.unions will be under siege, constant well-financed referenda will happen in state after state, legal assaults and investigations will take place at every level, and we''ll always be the target of well-financed media campaigns."
The response of the rank and file is evident. Some TWU mechanics are seeking new representation. The "Pilots Defending the Profession" group is gaining more credence and support. APFA members have removed their union pins, are organizing lawsuits and petitions for the removal of union officers.
They are not taking action out of some whimsy to dissent or as "rebels without a clue". They act because, in some cases, they feel their union officials no longer represent them or their best interests. They act because they are tired of hearing their officers repeating management doublespeak that came straight from corporate headquarters. They act because they feel their voices have been silenced and their will undermined.
Of course, resistance to change is certain because so many fear change of any kind. And some want to preserve the status quo at any cost. In some cases, strong attempts will be made to stifle dissent within the rank and file. Yet, those who are dissatisfied with the direction and actions of their union probably feel as Robert Kennedy did when he said, "The future does not belong to those who are content with today."
Some actions may end up being futile. Some may not.
In the end, the motivation for change, the dissension within the ranks, perhaps comes from a desperate need for hope when so much has been taken away, so many lives terribly altered and so little hope is in the present.
And as St. Augustine said, "Hope has two beautiful children: anger and courage; anger at the way things are and courage to change them."
Steven Baumert
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