AA applies for Delta's Seattle-Haneda slot
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WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
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- #182
not employee payroll deduction
AA employees did not pay for the plane with their own money.
the DOT is EXAMINING the case. they have not made any decision to move the route and will have to weigh why they gave it to SEA and DL over SFO when UA applied for it then.
There is a reason why there are 3 HND routes on the west coast.
There is also a reason why the DOT awarded 2 of the 4 HND routes to DL and AA and UA both have access to HND thru their JVs.
and AA still has its track record of not fully operating or attempting to transfer its own route and also has failed to deny that it will drop its money-losing LAX-NRT service.
you and others have been waiting for the same meltdown when DL was kicked out of DAL but it hasn't happened.
send me your email address and I'll mail you a coupon for dinner if AA wins the route and it is stripped from DL, ok?
we'll see who melts down.
can I see the story? employee payroll deductions?
I can't see the titles but I believe it says "sponsored by the employee owners..."
true? if so, then TW and UA owned the company - and they also lost their shirts in the process. they didn't specifically pay for the plane. they bought the company and they did it to as the price of concessions.
DL employees bought the Spirit of Delta because DL DID NOT impose the cuts that other carriers were making post PATCO strike.
jimntx
Veteran
The plane is a DC-3, and it is currently sitting in the middle of the main floor of the C.R. Smith Museum at the Flight Academy at DFW. So, it seems there are at least 2 other airline employee groups that have stepped up to the plate other than Dullta employees. I think that makes WT wrong again.commavia said:
Oh, and good luck with that desire to keep the thread on topic. As soon as it gets through to him that another of his wild-*ss statements about the alleged superiority of Dullta and its employees has been proven wrong, I expect him to carom off into a discussion (with himself) about the "quality revenue" that Dullta gets from its passengers while the rest of us get only common everyday revenue from ours. Thank god I have him on ignore. I can read the posts by the rest of you and figure out what insane thing he has said last.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
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- #184
again, an aircraft paid for by employee ideas is NOT the same thing as one bought by employee payroll deductions.
I have yet to see any evidence that any other airline has been GIVEN an aircraft by the DIRECT donations of its employees.
I'm still waiting.
feel free to toss anything in about revenue performance on the Pacific. Regardless of the measurement or route, AA will come up short compared to DL or UA.
btw, I know you AA fankids have a hard week finding out that you are going to have to compete with DL on LAX-PVG but you should know that DL is now at 55% of AA's size in Latin America while AA is only 39% of DL's size to Asia.
UA has also been growing to Latin America and is slightly larger than DL.... so AA now has TWO of its most direct competitors with operations that are more than half the size of AA's in Latin America.
and even more shocking is that AA is only 70% of DL's size across the Atlantic - all based on December traffic results. DL's entire int'l route system is 15% larger than AA's. UA manages to come I larger than DL to the Pacific but smaller than DL across the Atlantic and domestically - all of which have been the case.
congrats. AA built a huge domestic airline. They are still the 3rd largest int'l US airline, across the Atlantic, and across the Pacific. Their lead in Latin America is falling by the day.
I have yet to see any evidence that any other airline has been GIVEN an aircraft by the DIRECT donations of its employees.
I'm still waiting.
feel free to toss anything in about revenue performance on the Pacific. Regardless of the measurement or route, AA will come up short compared to DL or UA.
btw, I know you AA fankids have a hard week finding out that you are going to have to compete with DL on LAX-PVG but you should know that DL is now at 55% of AA's size in Latin America while AA is only 39% of DL's size to Asia.
UA has also been growing to Latin America and is slightly larger than DL.... so AA now has TWO of its most direct competitors with operations that are more than half the size of AA's in Latin America.
and even more shocking is that AA is only 70% of DL's size across the Atlantic - all based on December traffic results. DL's entire int'l route system is 15% larger than AA's. UA manages to come I larger than DL to the Pacific but smaller than DL across the Atlantic and domestically - all of which have been the case.
congrats. AA built a huge domestic airline. They are still the 3rd largest int'l US airline, across the Atlantic, and across the Pacific. Their lead in Latin America is falling by the day.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
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- #186
then you would have had to wonder where umpteen posts from a dozen people trying to argue that other carriers' employees gave via payroll donations came from.
and you would also miss the very real fact that AA is still the 3rd largest US int'l airline and in the same rank across both the Atlantic and the Pacific.
since AA was the largest airline to Latin America, all they accomplished with the merger was to become the largest domestic legacy airline.
and the whole reason why these threads go on and on about intl competition is because AA is trying to do internally what it could not do with a merger - which is to create a truly globally balanced network that is competitive with DL and UA - something they used as the justification for the merger.
they have yet to deliver on it.
and you would also miss the very real fact that AA is still the 3rd largest US int'l airline and in the same rank across both the Atlantic and the Pacific.
since AA was the largest airline to Latin America, all they accomplished with the merger was to become the largest domestic legacy airline.
and the whole reason why these threads go on and on about intl competition is because AA is trying to do internally what it could not do with a merger - which is to create a truly globally balanced network that is competitive with DL and UA - something they used as the justification for the merger.
they have yet to deliver on it.
nycbusdriver
Veteran
Why is "payroll deduction" essentially any different than "paid for by employees"?
Lake Central
Member
Is WT president of Delta?
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
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- #190
no, I am not the President of DL.
TO put a ribbon on cost cutting suggestions and call it equal to something that was actually paid for out of one's own paycheck is a stretch that is well beyond defensible logic.
instead of trying to argue that other airline employees have spent their own money to buy an aircraft when it is clear they did not, how about someone explain to me how AA is going to make LAX-HND work when there isn't a single TPAC route competitive with DL or UA where AA has a revenue premium and AA's performance on LAX-NRT is so far below even AA's own TATL routes that it is no surprise that AA loses hundreds of millions on the Pacific - and LAX-NRT is JUST one of AA's Pacific routes.
because employee cost saving suggestions cost the employee nothing.
TO put a ribbon on cost cutting suggestions and call it equal to something that was actually paid for out of one's own paycheck is a stretch that is well beyond defensible logic.
instead of trying to argue that other airline employees have spent their own money to buy an aircraft when it is clear they did not, how about someone explain to me how AA is going to make LAX-HND work when there isn't a single TPAC route competitive with DL or UA where AA has a revenue premium and AA's performance on LAX-NRT is so far below even AA's own TATL routes that it is no surprise that AA loses hundreds of millions on the Pacific - and LAX-NRT is JUST one of AA's Pacific routes.
ThirdSeatHero
Veteran
While I'm not exactly sure what happened with the US 757, TWA employees, in 1994, did indeed finance an MD-80 known as "Wings of Pride" with "voluntary" contributions.
Further, late last year, a group known as Tristar acquired the aircraft from AA and not only plans on restoring it, but making it operational.
http://tristarhistory.org/tristar-accepts-delivery-original-twa-wings-pride/
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CCYQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Ftristarhistory.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F09%2FTriStar-Wings-of-Pride-Legacy-Fundraiser1.pdf&ei=pu26VPmfOsjisAT74YCYDw&usg=AFQjCNEJJr5SjARgncWLbqfHBbOlOC838Q&bvm=bv.83829542,d.cWc
That Gentlemen is NICE!
Further, late last year, a group known as Tristar acquired the aircraft from AA and not only plans on restoring it, but making it operational.
http://tristarhistory.org/tristar-accepts-delivery-original-twa-wings-pride/
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CCYQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Ftristarhistory.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F09%2FTriStar-Wings-of-Pride-Legacy-Fundraiser1.pdf&ei=pu26VPmfOsjisAT74YCYDw&usg=AFQjCNEJJr5SjARgncWLbqfHBbOlOC838Q&bvm=bv.83829542,d.cWc
That Gentlemen is NICE!
nevergiveup
Veteran
- Nov 30, 2010
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Were you even born when they bought the plane?WorldTraveler said:
Kev3188
Veteran
Fantastic! I loved it when that plane would show at my station...ThirdSeatHero said:
AA's historic losses across the Pacific won't be a factor considered by the DOT in its decision to award the SEA-HND frequency. I don't predict that AA will get the frequency, but the shrill claims about AA's operations in the Atlantic and Latin America regions are also irrelevant. All that matters is the public benefit, and competition between airlines, even competition that results in further losses, is generally perceived by the DOT as beneficial to the public.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
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- #195
I'm still not sure of the mechanism that TW employees used to acquire the aircraft but they did in fact own sizable portions of the company as a result of their concessions.
again, however, they did not acquire the aircraft out of gratitude but because the company could not meet the promises it made.
those employees did not voluntarily acquire the aircraft.
DL employees did in fact voluntarily buy the Spirit of Delta.
yes, the M80 ended service in my lifetime.
and even if finances are not a factor, your statement is accurate that AA likely won't win the route award - at least you will admit it - because AA's own service pattern at HND is flawed and AA cannot provide anything of any greater public benefit than what DL and NH are already providing on LAX-HND today. further, there is every evidence that AA will suspend LAX-NRT if it wins LAX-HND so there really is no increased public benefit.
and you would be naïve to think that the DOT doesn't look at the financial information it collects from airlines when considering route cases. I can think of no case of the DOT awarding a route to an airline when that airline has a track record of significantly underperforming its competitors in the marketplace - which is what AA does or has done on every route to Asia it operates/ed from LAX, ORD, or JFK
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