Delta exits SEA-HND

[commavia]

Good. As both an employee and a shareholder in DL, I would like to see the assets allocated to this route moved to where they can more efficiently generate revenue.

 
Indeed.  This is the key.  This validates that, as was alluded to in certain other discussions ongoing recently, Delta's management - as opposed to its online forum glee club - is well in tune with the reality of shareholder expectations, and isn't going to needlessly dump capacity (at least not long-term) just to prove a point.

 

[700UW]

That's why you took the money and ran from DL.

That's why you are a keyboard bully.

Why aren't you running an airline or an airline expert?

 

[Monkee]

What you, monkee, and others fail to be able to admit is that I very much DO understand way more a bout the business of the airline industry than you or others do.

you and others have tried to resort to every trick in the book and then some to admit that.

DL fought for the right to serve HND because it was in part protecting its hub at NRT. HND-LAX has worked well. There are no more daytime slots to be made available at HND so US Japan daylight service at HND is not going to happen for a good while.

There is no economic basis for DL to lose money flying SEA-HND to protect NRT or anything else.

and as much as some are trying desperately to find me and others wrong, DL complied with everything the DOT said they had to and they fought to retain the right to keep the route and walked away only after their right to retain it was reaffirmed.


yes, Kev and meto,
you understand that there is no value for anyone in running unprofitable routes.

meanwhile, frugal continues to run around trying to find something to defame me for.

DL didn't lie.

it operated the HND award in compliance with what the DOT required.

A 744 wasn't required. Neither was operating it daily.

Until now.

DL decided it was not worth operating the route on a daily basis in the dead of the winter and the devaluation of the yen has only proven that.

Given that AA will very likely stop its own LAX-NRT flight in order to add HND, it isn't a win for them either.

it is a reallocation of assets.

and given that ICN traffic is hurting for all airlines because of MERS, a 333 that was probably going to fly SEA-ICN this winter has likely been freed up.

Why some people try so hard to deny those same realities is sickening.

Let's hope this leads to another int'l flight for SEA in the next year.

 
No, you obsess over DL, you really don't know the biz, there are experts out there who get paid to analyze this biz.  You just endlessly pontificate and obsess and defend and post like a real arrogant jerk who thinks that he is the ONLY one who understands what is going on, then you preach it to others.  Can you not see why this style makes you so disliked?  Probably not, you have issues.  Show some much needed humility, you were wrong, you set yourself up and you came crashing down.  And, honestly, it is hilarious watching your fevered mind continue to spin.  Any credibility you ever had is gone now, you are as laughable as Donald Trump's hair.

 

[WorldTraveler]

No, you obsess over DL, you really don't know the biz, there are experts out there who get paid to analyze this biz. You just endlessly pontificate and obsess and defend and post like a real arrogant jerk who thinks that he is the ONLY one who understands what is going on, then you preach it to others. Can you not see why this style makes you so disliked? Probably not, you have issues. Show some much needed humility, you were wrong, you set yourself up and you came crashing down. And, honestly, it is hilarious watching your fevered mind continue to spin. Any credibility you ever had is gone now, you are as laughable as Donald Trump's hair.

just admit that you can't say that there are people who know more about the airline industry than you.

Donald Trump has nothing to do with this conversation.

This is an online discussion, not a corner bar.

I participate to talk about the business issues of which I have been repeatedly right.

DL is leaving the SEA-HND market because it is not economically viable for them to remain.

AA will very likely enter LAX-HND in the offseason against DL which has its own metal in not only both LAX to Tokyo markets but in every longhaul route AA flies from LAX. and DL has long gained an average fare and total revenue advantage over AA in its directly competitive routes to Asia.

I have said for years that AA was not viable at NRT. Neither was it for DL to operate SEA-HND on a year round basis. That is why they didn't do it before.

AA now gets the chance to try to prove what it can do in a market which they fought to gain access to after their own JFK-HND failure.

Indeed.  This is the key.  This validates that, as was alluded to in certain other discussions ongoing recently, Delta's management - as opposed to its online forum glee club - is well in tune with the reality of shareholder expectations, and isn't going to needlessly dump capacity (at least not long-term) just to prove a point.

 
and it is ONLY YOU that are wrapped up the size of my machinery is bigger than yours.

Nowhere have I ever said that DL would operate anything to lose money.

btw, I'm still waiting for you to tell us when AA will announced its decision to end NRT service and when they will reach revenue parity to HND with DL.

 

[diamondcutter]

just admit that you can't say that there are people who know more about the airline industry than you.Donald Trump has nothing to do with this conversation.This is an online discussion, not a corner bar.I participate to talk about the business issues of which I have been repeatedly right.DL is leaving the SEA-HND market because it is not economically viable for them to remain.AA will very likely enter LAX-HND in the offseason against DL which has its own metal in not only both LAX to Tokyo markets but in every longhaul route AA flies from LAX. and DL has long gained an average fare and total revenue advantage over AA in its directly competitive routes to Asia.I have said for years that AA was not viable at NRT. Neither was it for DL to operate SEA-HND on a year round basis. That is why they didn't do it before.AA now gets the chance to try to prove what it can do in a market which they fought to gain access to after their own JFK-HND failure. and it is ONLY YOU that are wrapped up the size of my machinery is bigger than yours.Nowhere have I ever said that DL would operate anything to lose money.btw, I'm still waiting for you to tell us when AA will announced its decision to end NRT service and when they will reach revenue parity to HND with DL.

I'm still waiting for you to explain why you said the route would be profitable out of sea due to low fuel prices ?????????

 

[WorldTraveler]

first, find the quote where I said precisely what you stated.

second, I don't doubt that the route is profitable during the summer. But even if it is profitable on a year round basis because of summer strength, DL might not be willing to subsidize its operation in the winter.

and the same argument about fuel can be made about any number of market additions as well as existing markets that are losing lots of money including to deep S. America.

Fuel is a great advantage when you have it. Not so much when it goes up.

psst. you can't buy fuel hedges for the long term at today's low prices. or so the execs say so.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

Challenge accepted!
 

first, find the quote where I said precisely what you stated.

 
 
Here:
http://www.airlineforums.com/topic/58368-delta-to-keep-sea-hnd-with-conditions/?p=1159665
"And to assume that DL's SEA-HND route can't make money with lower fuel prices is a pretty far stretch since DL didn't operate the route thru the off-peak winter period to know what kind of revenue DL could generate."
 
And here:
http://www.airlineforums.com/topic/58368-delta-to-keep-sea-hnd-with-conditions/?p=1159683
"lower fuel prices - the same ones that are tied to the stronger dollar and weaker yen - will help improve the profitability of the flight.

The route was going to do better with lower fuel prices anyway. Most financial experts around the world do not expect significant further strengthening of the dollar."
 
Look what you wrote here:
http://www.airlineforums.com/topic/58368-delta-to-keep-sea-hnd-with-conditions/?p=1159892
"Lower fuel prices and a whole lot more DL controlled feed will change the economics."
 
 
 
And I couldn't resist this little gem either - as it nicely ties into the conversation below (about never being wrong):
http://www.airlineforums.com/topic/58368-delta-to-keep-sea-hnd-with-conditions/?p=1161529
"and you know what will happen? DL will reduce fares in the HND market to fill planes and that will hurt other carriers far more than it will hurt DL. Given that DL's average fares to HND are much higher than what AA got to JFK on a 777, DL has a lot of room to reduce fares if it wants to.

at the end of the day, DL will fly the route and comply with the directions. The question is how much DL will reduce fares in order to fill seats and do so at the cost of other carriers."
 
 

I participate to talk about the business issues of which I have been repeatedly right.

 
Really?
You still want to play this game?
 

it is only in your dreams that DL will walk away from the route.

 
 
This is like clubbing baby seals.  So, do you still want to continue?

 

[WorldTraveler]

and you still can't stand to actually participate in the discussion because you would rather find something to defame me.

You won't win.

DL won the right to continue to operate SEA-HND and decided to give back the authority to do so because it said the route cannot be profitable on a year round basis. DL was affirmed in its right to continue to operate the route and DID NOT WALK AWAY until it was vindicated.

Nothing you have quoted here contradicts anything I have said as the truth.

and AA now gets to compete with DL in every longhaul route from LAX except for GRU which AA is using to try to drive KE out of the market and getting lower average fares from LAX than it gets from eastern US hubs.

And AA most likely will leave LAX-NRT and not even the most adamant AA fankids here are willing to deny that will happen.

 

[UPNAWAY]

WT lost all respect (What little was left) for you in your complete inability to admit you were wrong. Hell you just said they would not walk away 2 days ago. You should have just maned up and said wow, I was wrong. But instead try to spin, what a joke of a poster you are. Time for the perma ban for the good of the board.

 

[700UW]

WT lost all respect (What little was left) for you in your complete inability to admit you were wrong. Hell you just said they would not walk away 2 days ago. You should have just maned up and said wow, I was wrong. But instead try to spin, what a joke of a poster you are. Time for the perma ban for the good of the board.

Best post on the thread.

 

[WorldTraveler]

WT lost all respect (What little was left) for you in your complete inability to admit you were wrong. Hell you just said they would not walk away 2 days ago. You should have just maned up and said wow, I was wrong. But instead try to spin, what a joke of a poster you are. Time for the perma ban for the good of the board.

sorry if I missed where you ever offered any respect before so I hardly feel slighted now.

I said that DL walked away based on economic factors - I clearly do not have the projected P&L for the flight during the winter, they didn't fly it last winter so there is no DOT data to look at, and I wasn't in any discussions about the disposition of the route.

I doubt very seriously that DL just made the decision in the last two days.

They didn't operate the route on a year round basis because the route didn't make money and likely wouldn't.

I'm not sure why you and others are so hell bent on trying to prove me wrong but when I wake up and find a dozen posts ALL targeted at trying to prove me wrong, well, I lost all respect I had for any of them (and unlike you or them, I have noted where and when I do respect some of them - perhaps not you, though).

and what you and no one else can challenge is that DL made the decision to walk away from SEA-HND which means that AA now has to compete with DL on every single longhaul route in the N. Hemisphere and AA will likely walk away from LAX-NRT.

I suppose it was a lie from all of those people who argued how well AA was doing on the JL JV and why I was wrong that DL was still the largest US carrier in the US-Japan market and will continue to be.

I have specifically and repeatedly noted that DL has managed the changes to the Japan market and will not sustain losses.

There is nothing I have said here that contradicts that. There is no MANNING UP to do as much as you would like to believe otherwise.


and for those that can focus on the actual business issues of the industry, we have had a super enormously interesting week with UA's announcement to leave JFK, the DAL issue, and the HND issue.

Why some people think they can only exist if they have to attack others proves why this board is left on the sidelines of business related discussions and it isn't because of the board but a handful of immature people who aren't big enough to admit that someone else knows more about the financial and competitive aspects of the industry than they do.

 

[Monkee]

No one is trying to prove you wrong.
 
You did a fantastic job of doing that yourself.

 

[WorldTraveler]

yes, they are because the only thing that anyone has been able to prove is by twisting my own words from what I said.

DL allowed the case to play itself out and then walked away on market based issues.

Let's now see how AA well AA does from LAX to HND, when it announces the end of LAX-NRT and how a bunch of other issues turn out, most of which have pitted DL against AA in one way or another and which a number of people here are going to do their best to try to frame as a WT was wrong issue no matter how it turns out.

 

[commavia]

"American Airlines wins the fight for Tokyo route as Delta concedes"
 
http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news/2015/06/18/american-airlines-wins-the-fight-for-tokyo-haneda.html
 
“Delta has determined that its Seattle-Haneda service is not viable under the current regulatory and market conditions, and therefore will suspend service,” the airline said in a statement.