American gets Delta's Haneda slot

[WorldTraveler]

there are multiple things he said that could have been an affront to you.

The issue of DL's decision to exit SEA-HND and AA's award of it is not one of them.

AA will now get to compete against DL at LAX where DL now serves every longhaul market that AA also serves except for GRU which DL flew and where AA is trying to push KE out of the market - in an apparent seat dump since fares are lower from GRU to LAX than to any other AA hubs.

I just knew a half dozen people who fly from Brazil to LAX via AA's LAX flight and all got roundtrips for less than $1000. on a twelve hour flight.

AA now gets to exchange another 12 hour flight from LAX to NRT with one for HND even though AA's average fares to NRT have been 40% lower than DL's since DL reentered the LAX-Tokyo market with the NW merger.

Those are MARKET, not emotional facts, and they aren't an affront to anyone that can actually check their emotions and discuss the market issues.

 

[WeAAsles]

I just would like to know if there is anything DL can or has ever done wrong in a certain individuals mind? I doubt it. They are just TOO perfect. Even though they did have to go Bankrupt once.

 

[WorldTraveler]

if you'd spend less time worrying about what other people do or say and trying to compare yourself to them, you might be able to discuss the business issues at hand.

Specific to DL and Japan, it was apparent at the time of the merger that NW's Tokyo centric Asia strategy wasn't going to work long term. DL has diversified DTW and SEA to become much larger hubs serving much more of Asia and shifted connecting traffic from Tokyo.

Others have repeatedly tried to argue that DL would lose in Japan and yet DL's share in the US- Japan market has maintained about the same and DL's Pacific operation is profitable.

DL has adapted well to the latest challenge which is a much weaker yen which is a result of the Bank of Japan's desire to recapture some of Japan's manufacturing strength, among other things.

Japan is a difficult market for US carriers.

DL in Japan has adapted and still is.

AA has cut its Japan capacity and will undoubtedly drop LAX-NRT in order to start HND.

Those who try to turn real business discussions into personal attacks are the biggest losers in all of this.

 

[UPNAWAY]

Why would Delta spend the money & time to fight lobby the DOT and then just give up a few weeks later?

 

[WorldTraveler]

to prove that it had the legal right to operate the flight and didn't lose it but instead chose to give it up rather than fly it at a loss for months every year.

It is also noteworthy that the DOT is handedly standing by DL in the DAL issue which probably involves far more revenue for multiple airlines than a single HND route.

 

[AANOTOK]

to prove that it had the legal right to operate the flight and didn't lose it but instead chose to give it up rather than fly it at a loss for months every year.

It is also noteworthy that the DOT is handedly standing by DL in the DAL issue which probably involves far more revenue for multiple airlines than a single HND route.

So weak...

 

[FWAAA]

Why would Delta spend the money & time to fight lobby the DOT and then just give up a few weeks later?

To prove that Delta is a badass that should not be messed with.

I think their corporate counsel probably told the execs that there was no way the DOT would affirm the draconian "must operate the flight each and every day" provision and when they were proven wrong, management told them to draft the contrite letter giving back the slots.

 

[WorldTraveler]

perhaps.

Or perhaps they wanted to prove to SEA that they would fight to defend their markets but they can't fix the lack of demand.

and perhaps Network has seen enough data since the further enhanced summer schedule has been for sale and operating that those flights still are not generating enough demand to fill the flight.

and as much as some think this is a great victory for AA, if it comes at the cost of AA existing LAX-NRT on its own metal, it is less capacity in a market that DL has long dominated and leaves AA to battle their way into the LAX-HND market where DL gets HIGHER average fares than they do to NRT and are capable of operating a 763 with close to Pacific average load factors on a year round basis.

Only if AA keeps both Tokyo routes is this really a big win and not just a reallocation of routes.

If it gives AA a 2nd chance to try HND - which DL has had - then let them try.

 

[jcw]

That's great if DL is getting higher fares to HND so will AA plus with a partner which wait DL doesn't have one but AA does - AA has alot to gain at DLs expense

Spin spin spin

You were so wrong on so many points of this topic it's like you are unhinged again

 

[WorldTraveler]

the spin is to explain why AA's partner of the last how many years has continued to be unable to improve AA's average fares in direct markets which AA and DL have flown to Tokyo - specifically LAX - where AA's average fares have trailed DL's by 40% and AA's total revenue - which also considers the number of passengers on each carrier in the local carrier is 80% less than DL's.

AA clearly wants a 2nd chance and it was clear that they would get one when DL decided of its own accord to drop SEA-HND. Given that DL has had a 2nd chance to HND, no one is opposed to AA having one if DL decides not to operate LAX-HND given that the DOT said that its first priority was for a 3rd mainland to US route.

What has not been close to being proven is that AA can do better with LAX-HND than it has done with LAX-NRT or that it can come anywhere close to matching DL's revenue performance to Tokyo.

And again, if AA exits LAX-HND as it is expected they will do, this route is simply a reassignment of one route to another.

 

[mistified]

It's no great revelation that AA will swap NRT for HND in LAX.
They have already pretty much said so.
So no great prediction on your part WT.

What you have discounted is the mucho better cargo aspect of this debate of LAX-HND versus either
LAX-NRT or SEA-HND.

There is always more behind the curtain!

 

[WorldTraveler]

AA has long carried heavy cargo loads to/from Asia.

They still showed major losses on their Pacific operations even when cargo was involved.

Passenger carries cannot turn a poor route into financially viable just because of cargo.

Cargo can make a marginally profitable passenger route be more profitable.

I didn't predict that AA would drop LAX-NRT. AA tipped that when it applied for LAX-HND using the same flight number they use on LAX-NRT.

AA will get a 2nd chance to operate to HND which is fine because DL had it and the DOT affirmed that DL was the 1st choice for SEA-HND service; because DL says operating that route is not economically viable on a year round basis, AA gets its chance to see what it can do with LAX-HND which will be just a reallocation of assets from LAX-NRT

 

[jcw]

Let's get this clear someone routine asks folks to admit things when confronted with sime facts about being incorrect one poster can't bring themselves to admit a single mistake- therefore one poster should never ask anyone else to admit anything

Now back to reality - DL was outsmarted, played overly aggressive with the authorities and lost on all fronts

Can we say tough one

 

[mistified]

.Passenger carries cannot turn a poor route into financially viable just because of cargo.Cargo can make a marginally profitable passenger route be more profitable.

Sorry doesn't pass the common sense test. For that matter does not recon with basic math principals.

Again in terms of cargo LAX-HND is not the same as to NRT. Or for that matter SEA to HND.

 

[WorldTraveler]

and the best part of this industry is that AA's cargo performance on LAX-HND will become just as public as it is now on its LAX-NRT route.

We'll see how well AA does, esp. since there is a good chance the route will be downgraded to a 787 just as AA is doing with a number of Asia routes.

As much as some want to try to deny it, DL played by the rules of the route awards for SEA TWICE, was reaffirmed in its right to operate HND, and is leaving on economic grounds and after having won the right to continue the flight.

And AA will be entering the LAX-HND in the fall with the yen at multi-year highs and will likely be swapping its NRT flight for HND.

I'm glad that AA fans are happy with the opportunity for AA to have a 2nd chance at HND but let's be clear that their track record is far weaker that they will do as well as DL does on LAX-HND than that DL could make SEA-HND work.