AA and Labor Negotiations-2020

[dfw gen]

i agree, but i understand the downside of no mail and freight. the govt. wants the appearance of calm.


since no one is traveling, not sure if the virus' ability to spread via large distances is smothered, but our health is most important.

i'd be for a 1 week shutdown, as numbers start deceasing in major cities. like a final ratchet turn.

the shut down has not occurred because it would endanger the free government money. rest assured if the government said no bailout we would all be on the outside looking in. je said they would never lose money again one way or another......

 

[Bin Stretcher]

Curious?
Please allow that all is good for employees until 9/30/20 due to grants/loans.
My question is, at that point in time, should our union(s) insist our companies declare which part of the "Force Majeure" clause they will use for RIF (since several apply) so we know what to look for for an end point.
POTUS could declare an end to the "National Emergency", but "Grounding of a substantial number of the companies aircraft" would last much, much longer.
Or, could our companies switch reasons in mid-crises, or even use all that apply?
Under FM, can our companies force abrogating our contact and establish their own work rules, etc., on remaining employees?

 

[dfw gen]

Curious?
Please allow that all is good for employees until 9/30/20 due to grants/loans.
My question is, at that point in time, should our union(s) insist our companies declare which part of the "Force Majeure" clause they will use for RIF (since several apply) so we know what to look for for an end point.
POTUS could declare an end to the "National Emergency", but "Grounding of a substantial number of the companies aircraft" would last much, much longer.
Or, could our companies switch reasons in mid-crises, or even use all that apply?
Under FM, can our companies force abrogating our contact and establish their own work rules, etc., on remaining employees?

those are good points. i done think i would ask what are you going to use. as a union i would think they would already research what the ramifications are.

this is sarcastic, but i wonder....
with the association the way things have been run they will probably set a priority list for layoffs.
1) twu members first
2) all remaining twu members
4) any twu international members remaining
5) cut a deal so all iam members remain at half pay

 

[CremaDiLimone]

the shut down has not occurred because it would endanger the free government money. rest assured if the government said no bailout we would all be on the outside looking in. je said they would never lose money again one way or another......

i agree, that's why there hasn't been a shut-down. my thought is that the govt. could mandate one, but we know they would weigh and measure everything, and chances are, wouldn't order it.

we all know the business is all about numbers, but i can only believe what i've heard - and trump has said that the govt. won't allow airlines to collapse and mnuchin and pence have both said there could be more stimulus packages in the future.

much of this is psychological and once the infection numbers decrease and therapy drugs are approved, i'm thinking that everyone will be more upbeat, including those who want to travel.

 

[V.O. Reason]

The fact that all the airlines are going to 20 percent operations in May pretty much equals a shutdown.
I think that’s all we will see and just hope by late May into the summer the airlines begin to slowly ramp back up.
I’ve heard yes there is likely a smaller stimulus coming probably in late May or mid summer once they evaluate where the economy is going

I would also take advantage of VTO once in a while if you can afford to it will allow others who need to work have more opportunities to work

 

[swamt]

Except that didn't happen. Online voting for two days. Can literally vote on the toilet ,in your own home, using what is now very expensive toilet paper. If people can't be motivated to take the 60 seconds to vote... literally anywhere in the world..in regards to their own financial well being...they cannot be helped.

I agree. My statement you were quoting was referring to the original vote that would have taken place if this crisis did not happen. It WOULD have been a one day, in person, intimidation and held for approx 8-10 hours only. It was only changed to a 2 day voting process after COVID-19 hit us.
I can assure you that all future votes by this asso will be held for one day, in person, intimidation voting polls, as long as this asso is in charge.

 

[swamt]

That's not a completely fair assessment, as I been told there was many people who were unable to vote due to a computer glitch, along with other issues. Personally, I think it is crap that the Association hires these "experts" with only a 2-day voting window, and the online system fails without a live ballot option.

That's why they should have given a 30 day period, enough time to work out the glitches and still get all the members a chance to vote. I mentioned that there might very well be computer glitches and some would not be able to vote and it appears that has happened.

We (not you) were not restricted. We had 2 days to vote from anywhere in the world that had internet access. There is no such thing as intimidation (grow up). You will never admit it, but every time you spew, your bias towards any other union but yours' shows. Reading all of the accolades on fb for the IAM after the vote passed (and personally talking with fellow AA employees), it's obvious that most union employees either support, or don't care which union represents them as long as the contract got done. But it's equally obvious that hardly anyone supports the association and wants it gone, including me. It took the TWU & IAM crooks 5 years to get a first contract and in some areas we are still separate. I wish I could sue them for malpractice. Every time I think about the $900+ a year I pay to the union, the angrier I get.

By the way, I stand behind the mechanics for wanting their own specific union taylored for them and hope they get what they want.

My comment was for the way they had it set up originally. Only after this crisis kicked in did they change to to the two days and by electronic voting. That is the way should have been from the get go, but still was not very happy with the only two days. A minimum 2 weeks and at max 30 days would have been more than enough time to fix any comp glitches, or someone didn't receive their pins, to get new ones etc...

 

[AANOTOK]

the ones that could not vote, probably would not go the extra step like reading email. or trying to find out the phone number (reading an email) to get your pin assigned. no there are no excuses.

Each to his own, but I know many people who have NEVER checked their company email. Every once in a while it can be helpful. Even more each to his own is some folks do not know how to use a computer and have no interest in learning...again, each to his own but...

 

[dfw gen]

Each to his own, but I know many people who have NEVER checked their company email. Every once in a while it can be helpful. Even more each to his own is some folks do not know how to use a computer and have no interest in learning...again, each to his own but...

in maintenance we really have no choice we have to use company email. but we still have some that just wont do it

 

[1AA]

Company email became a inbox full of daily messages and updates from the company. It fills up faster than our training menu. Unfortunately it became another spam email box. One thing to add is if it gets full to whatever limit it has all future incoming emails won't be delivered.
So if it's full and something important is sent you won't get it. I check my company email from time to time to delete all the junk. That's about the only reason I check it incase I know something of importance is expected like our recent voting PIN email.

 

[AANOTOK]

I have personally found it very useful and use it on occasion to correspond to those who I may not want to converse with in person.
As for the voting, those who complained they never received the pin and/or instructions via snail mail, checking your company mail provided you with a couple of clicks (no pin required) and you were done. I know I know, some feel those were "auto yes's" for the company.
Again, I have found it to be useful in more ways than one and keeping up with it two, three days a week eliminates the junk with a few clicks.
As stated previously, each to his/her own...

 

[Buck]

There were some that had to deal with login and access problems.

 

[1AA]

Well we have finally arrived to the end of the dragged out negotiations and are about to embark on a new venture in our journeys. Tomorrow will be the start of the first association negotiated JCBA. What will that bring to our lives both at work and home? Will we be better off or just satisfied that we voted on something? Was it worth the over four years of negotiations that promised an ILC? Was it only about the money? Did the association achieve their goals? Will the membership benefit from this JCBA or will it be status quo under a new agreement. Everyone has their own importance in this agreement that others may not share. Every article will affect one member differently from another. So in final closing I say I hope we will be better off now in these trying times than before.
We got what we wanted so it's time to stop complaining and move forward.

 

[title 2]

Well we have finally arrived to the end of the dragged out negotiations and are about to embark on a new venture in our journeys. Tomorrow will be the start of the first association negotiated JCBA. What will that bring to our lives both at work and home? Will we be better off or just satisfied that we voted on something? Was it worth the over four years of negotiations that promised an ILC? Was it only about the money? Did the association achieve their goals? Will the membership benefit from this JCBA or will it be status quo under a new agreement. Everyone has their own importance in this agreement that others may not share. Every article will affect one member differently from another. So in final closing I say I hope we will be better off now in these trying times than before.
We got what we wanted so it's time to stop complaining and move forward.

very good post make your peace with what we got and move on

 

[Racer X]

BS!!! When you are being reduced to a very small time frame, and restricted to when and where you can vote, and ONLY held on one day, and you can only vote in person, and the intimidation of also voting in person IS NOT the fault of the membership who "COULD NOT" vote due to the complete fukd up restrictions to vote. C'mon Man!!!

It was TWO days AND ELECTRONIC. There were no in person locations.