A New Approach to Pilot Pay at US Airways

[PullUp]

Take the Nic.. And we can all get a freaking pay raise now!

The company and AOL would love for you to believe this statement is true, when it is not necessarily so.
There is no correlation between what type of seniority list is implemented and what pay (if any) you'll receive.
None. Nada. Zilch.
As for your statement that any perceived pay raise would occur "now": the company has stonewalled the process now for how long? And what is their motivation for quickly closing on a T/A? With pay increases? Because it is "the right thing to do"?
Yeah. I didn't think so either.
"Take the Nic" says you, but what's in it for me?
Convince me.
cheers.

 

[PullUp]

The attrition won't really tail off a whole lot, at least not in the near term once mandatory retirements pick up again at the end of this year. Assuming a stable industry, (admittedly a HUGE, HUMONGOUS, GIGANTIC assumption) the pilots hired in 2013 and for quite some time afterward can expect a reasonable progression in their careers.

>Ok, we'll assume 20/mo for 10 years or 2000 positions. Not all of these guys will upgrade to the left seat in short order. In fact, the bottom half of the group will be FO's for a long time waiting for guys hired just months prior to them to retire.

Answer: To take advantage of the looming (since at least 1978) pilot shortage...
>Still waiting for it...
Answer: For the glamour.....
>Still looking for it.
Answer: Too lazy to work; too nervous to steal....
>At these wages???????
Answer: The sheer enjoyment of climbing into that still-warm crash pad bed....
>Maybe THAT is the glamorous part?
Answer: Free airline tickets...
>That you can't use because all the seats are full....
Answer: ......??? (Come on! Join the fun!)
>when I meet a new hire FO, I ask why he accepted this job offer. 100% so far: attrition gives faster progression than all the others.

 

[PullUp]

Attrition? After the merger, when the AA furloughees are all recalled and retire, then there will be attrition. Lock in a integrated list with a modest improvement in the contract or take your chances with the charity if the APA. Non-starters like this idea will drag things out and remove control of your own destiny out of your hands and into those of the APA.

Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt. What merger?
After AA mgmt gets done with APA, LOA 93 will look like a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
Do you really think they'll be negotiating from any position of strength?
Get real.

 

[PullUp]

This company has a ROI requirement of 1 year.

You're a bit long.

I'm describing a seniority distribution curve.
C- for reading comprehension.

 

[HogDriver]

And who's going to pay for this? And I don't mean Parker because he's got a set number to pay for pilots, the union will split the money pot right? So basically the very junior and the senior guys make less and will foot the bill for the angry FO club again trying to swindle there way to relevance? No thanks, they've done enough damage to this pilot group.

Actually the approach is more of dividing the new raise with a new contract across the entire pilot group. Thats how you pay for it. Once again my approach is to end the current state of haves and have nots. Not trying to "swindle" anyone one. And as far as relevence goes a pilot is a pilot is a pilot. My relevance is just as important to the airline as any other pilot. Just this remark shows how dividing the old system makes things.

 

[HogDriver]

Sounds like a classic "Redistribution of Wealth" scheme. Did you happen to get some advice from President Obama on this?

Actually it is an "equal pay for equal work" proposal. Pilots fly jets, all of us are trained to the exact level as anyone one else on the list. A 330 pilot fly's 250 pax once a leg. A 190 pilot fly's 250 pax on several legs in the same day. Who should earn more?

The old way of pay and career progression works with growth so all can move up to the higher pay seats, but news flash...those days are gone. Only attrition is in our future.

 

[PullUp]

So what's Ferguson's idea for payscales?

 

[HogDriver]

You had to be furloughed to fly for MDA. End of story.

You couldn't flow up to mainline. End of story.

MDA was never discussed as being mainline by the east MC in neg/med/arb. End of story.

Nic agreed. End of story.

You have no legal standing. End of story.

MDA WAS NOT mainline. The only ones that seem to be carrying this fiction on are easties. No one else seems to agree.

Move...Did not intend to turn this into a MDA debate but you don't have your facts correct. Mainline actually could flow down to MDA, a flow up would be a recall when it was set to be a stand alone airline. But the stand alone plan fell through. When it fell through US had a choice, cancel the operation or fly it under US. If it is under US with 15 year US pilots flying it then what elese would you call it??? Had MDA stayed with US a year or so longer we would have had the time to formally press through a recall to MDA as a part of Mainline (just as MetroJet was in the past). This whole mess played out in under 2 years and was very confusing when US management was trying to cover things up, not deal with it and then selling it off.

MDApilots wwere supposed to be on the list submitted to Mr. Nic with all credit for time there intact. I was at one of our Merger Comm presentations and saw it for my own eyes. However, our MEC somehow dropped the ball and an incorrect list was forwarded. That is the basis of the MDA DFR lawsuit now in court against ALPA.


But here is the real thing that bugs me. I am a pilot...been here at US since 1989. One year out of 23 I was out not touching a US jet nor getting a paycheck from the co. People say I am out of line for fighting for what is fair and to not be taken advantage of. You are a pilot ( I assume). I would think a professional pilot would see the big picture and support his fellow pilot against the powers that come at all of us to take down our profession. Instead we have you saying I am not entitled to my 22 years here...and you know why? Because the way we pilots have structured our pay system with such disparity for essentially the same job. Makes it easy to climb over your fellow pilot for that golden ring.

Kinda makes my case for a more equal pay system, in what ever form, for me.

 

[PullUp]

Agree 100%. When MDA was created, mainline could bid it. Was a paycut for most F/O's to bid 170 C/O, but it was offered.

 

[algflyr]

How does a new F/O survive on 25/hr. seriously. In the real world this equates to 12/hr. Why even learn how to fly in the first place? Other airlines start at 42-45/hr., so what kind of talent are you attracting at 25?

Just in the interest of accuracy... There are NO new hire pilots making 25/hr. on our property. If a new-hire is awarded the E190, they are paid 42.05 per hr. the first year. If they are awarded ANY other equipment, they are paid a flat salary of $3,000.00 per month. On any equipment other than the 190, they will be reserve pilots. Our reserves get a guarantee of 76 hours per month. So that breaks down to $39.47 per hour... Not saying that's great, but certainly more than $25/hr. And certainly in line with most other airlines as far as first year pay goes...

 

[cynic]

So you have more concern for some unknown future employee than current fellow US pilots? Why not give them additional flying at Republic where they can make more money flying the E-190?

But in typical east fashion, you'd rather dream up some scheme that suits your ulterior motive than deal with reality as it exists.

Grow up.

A future co-worker is no different than a current one. You may not fly with him or her today, but you will at some point. Will you be able to look them in the eye and say "yeah, I know your pay sucks, but we had to do that so I could make more money."? All I am suggesting is not selling anyone down the river be they new, old east or west. Hardly in "typical east fashion".

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

All Squids wear pantyhose...

Is that new?

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

I thought this whole LOS pay scale was Hummel's idea.

Well, you thought wrong.

Perhaps, should you attempt to break free of your self-imposed phone-booth hostage situation, you might actually learn something.

Exciting world out there. Do try to prepare.

 

[john john]

A pay system based solely on Length of Service (LOS)
Isn’t this what HP does now ?

 

[Beancounter]

A pay system based solely on Length of Service (LOS)
Isn’t this what HP does now ?

Yes, but we're not talking about the usual LOS contract. Outline: Push out pay scale to 20-30 years. Insignificant pay raises for the majority of AWA pilots. Huge pay raises for majority of east pilots. Excuse of, don't worry one day you'll get yours. Ignores time value of money and fact by then there will be a different contract. They can't steal seniority so it's going to be a theft of money. Such a blatant one sided money grab it will probably trigger DFRs. Delay, Delay, Delay, no contract, no contract..........