APA Proposes Pay Restoration

[Bob Owens]

Given an incompetent union that failed to negotiate sufficient upside in exchange for the concessions, I'd remind myself that the 13th Amendment passed well over 100 years ago and that I was free to not go to work for the slave wages agreed to by the TWU. .

Yea well the 13th amendment doesnt apply to BK, or at least thats what these Judges would say.

Recently Nasssau County indicted a bunch of nurses who quit. They were told by the court that they HAD to work for wages that they never agreed to.

 

[StraaightTaalk]

No, I just can't ..... Just like you can't quit posting your hateful childish comments toward everyone, must have been picked on alot as a child :huh: .... I love you StraaIght.... You make me all warm and fuzzy inside... You are easier to steer than my BMW.... MWAHH MWAHH, kisses to you - you little devil you, you are so harsh, just love ya!!!!

It just keeps coming back for more abuse. I guess it thrives on attention, even if blatantly negative.

How sad.

 

[upsilon]

Yea well the 13th amendment doesnt apply to BK, or at least thats what these Judges would say.

Recently Nasssau County indicted a bunch of nurses who quit. They were told by the court that they HAD to work for wages that they never agreed to.

Come'on Bob, nurses covered by the RLA, 13th in BK, a county "indicted".....?

These are very unusual remarks from you, with whom I mostly do not agree; but who I think expresses himself well.

And most importantly, were I of the same mind as you as to unions, I would have conducted myself in the same way. You have always stood for unions that answered to its membership.

 

[FA Mikey]

No, I just can't ..... Just like you can't quit posting your hateful childish comments toward everyone, must have been picked on alot as a child :huh: .... I love you StraaIght.... You make me all warm and fuzzy inside... You are easier to steer than my BMW.... MWAHH MWAHH, kisses to you - you little devil you, you are so harsh, just love ya!!!!

In case you forgot or lied here is a quote from you

So I will do you AA Elitists a favor and quit busting your happy chops and leave you alone to your board

 

[donttouchthebeauty]

In case you forgot or lied here is a quote from you

Just like your CEO - I did neither, I just changed my mind........

 

[Vortilon]

There is a solution to this. Just cut the mechs. and F/a's pay and give a hefty raise to the pilots. You have to have pilots to fly the planes,
but the maintence part can be farmed out without any problem.

Why doesn't SWA outsource all their line MX if it's so easy and cheap to find contract MX? Imagine how much SWA could save having the likes of Jett Care and Timco handling their line MX. I'm sure all their highly motivated, well compensated AMT's would be willing to bend over backwards in all weather conditions, weekends, and holidays to get you out on time...

Aerosmith has a song.. it's called: "Dream on".

 

[flyhigh]

Let's try to get back on topic.

What do people REALLY think the APA will end up getting? It will be interesting given that all the contracts come up at the same time. If they had been staggered, I would imagine the first group negotiating would get the most. With all three up at the same time, AA has a better case for saying if we give everyone 3%, example, this is the cost. By having one at a time, the union could say that market conditions may differ when contracts 2 & 3 come up so let's not even consider that.

Additionally, I assume AA actually wants this to play into next year. With the economy possible moving toward a recession (likely causing losses in transportation), AA can argue that hey, there is no money...we're losing money. I would imagine at that point, extensions would be the more likely option.

Given the frailty of the economy, I would venture to guess that the Bush admin would be included to issue a PEB should a strike happen.

I also have a question...regarding the negotiating terms APA inserted into their proposal, are they trying to contractually circumvent the law by setting a timeline for negotiating, arbitration & self help (strike)? If so, can AA even sign that? Wouldn't that be the equivalent of signing a contract to kill someone...you can't be contractually held to something that is against the law...or am I mis-reading their terms.

Thanks!

 

[Raptor]

Let's try to get back on topic.

What do people REALLY think the APA will end up getting? It will be interesting given that all the contracts come up at the same time. If they had been staggered, I would imagine the first group negotiating would get the most. With all three up at the same time, AA has a better case for saying if we give everyone 3%, example, this is the cost. By having one at a time, the union could say that market conditions may differ when contracts 2 & 3 come up so let's not even consider that.

Additionally, I assume AA actually wants this to play into next year. With the economy possible moving toward a recession (likely causing losses in transportation), AA can argue that hey, there is no money...we're losing money. I would imagine at that point, extensions would be the more likely option.

Given the frailty of the economy, I would venture to guess that the Bush admin would be included to issue a PEB should a strike happen.

I also have a question...regarding the negotiating terms APA inserted into their proposal, are they trying to contractually circumvent the law by setting a timeline for negotiating, arbitration & self help (strike)? If so, can AA even sign that? Wouldn't that be the equivalent of signing a contract to kill someone...you can't be contractually held to something that is against the law...or am I mis-reading their terms.

Thanks!

Most likely they won't get everything they lost back, I do not think any group will, since AA has offered the pilots more flight time if they want it most likely they will come out the best of the 3 groups, the rest of us already work 40 hours a week.
I believe the President will step in if they should go on strike, most likely at that point Pilots will start writing things up and calling in
sick which will bother AA.
No one know's what he economy will be next year, most likely oil will still be high :angry:

 

[donttouchthebeauty]

[quote name
I believe the President will step in if they should go on strike, most likely at that point Pilots will start writing things up and calling in
sick which will bother AA.

[/quote]


Which they should be doing this already, at least being nit picky about writing things up can definitely put a thorn in managements side... Which is exactly what they need..

 

[flyhigh]

I would imagine that to be a poor strategy. They've already gotten the court of public opinion against them with the letter the APA chair sent...these tactics simply put people totally against them.

People need to take the whole picture into account. A lot of people think that mgmt just decided what cuts they wanted from labor. Not really the case. In order for creditors to agree to delayed payments, lower payments, or stock payments, mgmt was told they needed to get the house in order...INCLUDING labor costs. With that said, under normal circumstances, creditors and shareholders will eventually say sign a contrac that is higher than they want to normally sign to stop losses. In AA's case right now, it seems creditors could be willing to take a short term loss (during a strike) in order to get the company in a position to pay bills better. If labor uses poor tactics, like APA's letter, it's more likely it will backfire as creditors will rest assured that bush will force them back to work as opposed to letting it go if both sides negotiated reasonable. You may not like how AA negotiates behind doors, but as long as they keep it behind doors as they have, they look better than the pilots right now.

 

[WingNaPrayer]

AA has kept it behind doors? Really?

They've got press releases and a website that say different.

 

[flyhigh]

They haven't negotiated in public like APA has. When asked by a reporter for a response to APA's letter they said they will review it but on face value it will increase costs...that's not negotiating.

What do you think APA will get WingNaPrayer? The F/A's have been relatively quite. What's up with that? While you may disagree with what TWU has been saying, I'm surprised there has been little to no talk from the F/A's at all...is there something I missed?

 

[WingNaPrayer]

They are just sitting back letting the other unions take the fight out of AA.

Ultimately, AA will end up in bankruptcy, with the other carriers picking over their carcass, and the food chain starts all over again!

 

[eolesen]

Mechanics, people who could fix their planes who were willing to stay in the NY area. They made their mistakes destroying PEs planes. By the time they got to AA they were experienced.

It's been over 20 years since PE went away, so correct me if I'm mistaken, but PE didn't have line mechanics and outsourced all of its overhaul. EWR and a few larger stations had "Maintenance Managers" (perhaps the equal to a L3 supervisor at AA?) who were A&P's, but their main purpose was to oversee A&P's from the FBO or other airlines. I'm pretty certain UAL was the contractor at EWR, and BN2 was at ORD.

Considering how long PE's fleet remained at CO (and PA/DL in their shuttle fleet), those planes weren't in bad shape at all, because they had tier one airlines doing all of the maintenance...

Same as above, mechanics. If every mechanic from EAL,PE, PA, Tower and TWA were removed from the headcount you would have around 30 mechanics between JFK, LGA and EWR.

Probably true. Again, fuzzy memory, but a lot of people from EAL and PAA used Tower as a stepping stone to AMR.

 

[lpbrian]

It's been over 20 years since PE went away, so correct me if I'm mistaken, but PE didn't have line mechanics and outsourced all of its overhaul. EWR and a few larger stations had "Maintenance Managers" (perhaps the equal to a L3 supervisor at AA?) who were A&P's, but their main purpose was to oversee A&P's from the FBO or other airlines. I'm pretty certain UAL was the contractor at EWR, and BN2 was at ORD.

Considering how long PE's fleet remained at CO (and PA/DL in their shuttle fleet), those planes weren't in bad shape at all, because they had tier one airlines doing all of the maintenance...

Probably true. Again, fuzzy memory, but a lot of people from EAL and PAA used Tower as a stepping stone to AMR.

Tower? Tower? FYI Eolesen, AMR does not employ exterminators...