The mechanics need to come to terms with the airline industry's realities. It seems Sam did and it's really a shame it takes that reality.delldude said:
You really don’t have a choice unless you choose unemployment over employment.
A Mechanics Fate?
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You really don’t have a choice unless you choose unemployment over employment.
if it doesn't matter to you then why all the quality time spent with your computer?
hope you spend as much time with the family as you do usaviation...
why the continual spouting and endless mantra's over and over and over?geez man get ahold of yourself.
and they entrust you with an aircraft full of souls??
hope you spend as much time with the family as you do usaviation...
why the continual spouting and endless mantra's over and over and over?geez man get ahold of yourself.
and they entrust you with an aircraft full of souls??
willnotworkforfree
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In regard to your suggestion that subcontractor maintenance is substandard, can you tell me why Southwest, FedEx, and the entire U.S. military does not have a problem?USA320Pilot said:
Regards,
USA320Pilot
Better than that ...can you tell US all, why U has had a problem?..and please compare what has been and what will be. You seem to see the future.
1. I guess I'm a little dense. Exactly how does increased outsourcing bring furloughed employees back?
2. Anywhere along the line, the company could have abided by contracts they had negotiated in 'good faith' (HAH!). They have chosen not to, in matters great and small. Who is not working with whom? In my view, continued cooperation is enabling - sort of like a battered wife who stays with her husband.
2. Anywhere along the line, the company could have abided by contracts they had negotiated in 'good faith' (HAH!). They have chosen not to, in matters great and small. Who is not working with whom? In my view, continued cooperation is enabling - sort of like a battered wife who stays with her husband.
the choice is to stay and win the arbitration then mechanics will have a future....there is no future after the boeings go away...the answer is unemployment then...
no airbus in house-no employment.
no need for concessions either.....
no airbus in house-no employment.
no need for concessions either.....
In my opinion, the company will continue to hammer the IAM, and everyone else (yes ALPA, that means you, too) REGARDLESS of whether the IAM conceeds or not.
The proof lies before you. We HAVE conceeded, and the company came back for more.
Where will it end? No one, including you, knows.
What I do know is with the spector of 'express' looming, the job market is a reasonable alternative for agents.
While I understand that is not the case for ALPA, as most of you cannot come near replacing your income, how you resolve that is none of my business - it is the collective 'yours'.
Get the hint?
The proof lies before you. We HAVE conceeded, and the company came back for more.
Where will it end? No one, including you, knows.
What I do know is with the spector of 'express' looming, the job market is a reasonable alternative for agents.
While I understand that is not the case for ALPA, as most of you cannot come near replacing your income, how you resolve that is none of my business - it is the collective 'yours'.
Get the hint?
Ok, Folks, the gloves are off, lets reducate a320pilot once again as we have been thru this, given the spinmaster the real facts and once again he post absolute false information.
Are you that scared of your own job you have to basically lie and post misinformation when you have been told time and time and time again that you are wrong, and the REAL IAM members tell you what that real information and facts are?
Black is what a320pilot posted and the blue is my replies!
Here are the facts and it will not affect me regardless of how this goes, but to others...
1. Sam Wood a 17-year veteran mechanic filed for personal bankruptcy shortly after his layoff.
Fact: Sam Wood chose not to excersice his seniority to another station to keep his job like thousands of employees have done!
2. US Airways can close the Pittsburgh Maintenance facility in about 9 months and move the work elsewhere, to an undesirable location.
Fact: The company cannot close a facility down to circumvent the contract as Arbitor Dunsford told the company in the CFM56 Engine case (ie TPA.) and the company can move anything in its operation including your crew base if they choose, but for financial reasons they won't, and if they move and it and build it we will be there!
3. The IAM lost the legal battle on the A320 heavy maintenance outsourcing and from a historical perspective will likely lose the minor grievance.
Fact: Wrong again, the court ruled it a minor dispute versus a major dispute and the IAM has OVERHAULED EVERY SINGLE AIRPLANE this company has flown since 1949 and HAS THE COMPANY'S CONTRACT PROPOSALS from Section 6 Negotiations over the past 54 years where they RECOGNIZED it is IAM COVERED WORK AND ASKED FOR RELIEF! (try again).
4. According to company reports it takes a contractor 13 days to do a narrowbody overhaul and with US Airways' IAM work rules it takes the airline 18 days to do a narrowbody overhaul. Moreover, the asset has 5 less days per overhaul to produce revenue.
Fact: NO airbus has had a S-Check performed in-house, so mr know-it-all, tell us how it would take 18 days? It can take days or a year depending on how the company DECIDES to staff the manpower!
5. The company offered the IAM a proposal to conduct the A320 heavy maintenance in-house, but the IAM refuses to negotiate.
Fact: I have personally spoke with FIVE of the IAM Representatives at the meeting, what the company did was hand the IAM a grievance saying the comapny will outsource 10 airbii and maybe the company and the IAM can meet to discuss how to bring the work in-house!
WHY DO YOU LIE AND PUT OUT MISINFORMATION that you HAVE NO CLUE ABOUT, when you have been told the right information time and time again?
6. The Department of Labor (DOL) says that there are 4 automobile mechanic positions available per year per dealership with a starting wage of less than $17 per hour. However, to obtain these positions a prospect must go to a technical school for 54 weeks and pay $18,000 tuition before they qualify for the job. The DOL did say there are painter/coater mechanics positions available that pay less than $12 per hour.
Fact: The IAM represents thousands of auto mechanics and many of them make more then an aircraft mechanic and at the rate your union is going, you will make less the a 18 year old crop dusting in Iowa.
Industry Avg Hourly Earnings Employment This Month Employment Last Year Change
% Chg
Motor Vehicle Parts & Dealers n/a 1,876,600 1,856,100 22,000
+01.2
Automobile Dealers n/a 1,256,800 1,244,000 12,800
+1.0%
Unfortunately the IAM has been dealt a bad hand of cards and the table has been set. It's really up to the mechanics on what they want to do and it will not affect me one way or another.
Show me in my contract what a bad hand is I have 54 YEARS on my side and my union is not backing down like yours! Don't worry you will be working for Mesa and Orenstien by the end of the year!
Do I want US Airways to survive? Sure I do, but I have options, however, people like Sam Wood and others apparently do not.
You want YOUR job to survive at the cost of OTHERS!
Regards,
USA320Pilot
Are you that scared of your own job you have to basically lie and post misinformation when you have been told time and time and time again that you are wrong, and the REAL IAM members tell you what that real information and facts are?
Black is what a320pilot posted and the blue is my replies!
Here are the facts and it will not affect me regardless of how this goes, but to others...
1. Sam Wood a 17-year veteran mechanic filed for personal bankruptcy shortly after his layoff.
Fact: Sam Wood chose not to excersice his seniority to another station to keep his job like thousands of employees have done!
2. US Airways can close the Pittsburgh Maintenance facility in about 9 months and move the work elsewhere, to an undesirable location.
Fact: The company cannot close a facility down to circumvent the contract as Arbitor Dunsford told the company in the CFM56 Engine case (ie TPA.) and the company can move anything in its operation including your crew base if they choose, but for financial reasons they won't, and if they move and it and build it we will be there!
3. The IAM lost the legal battle on the A320 heavy maintenance outsourcing and from a historical perspective will likely lose the minor grievance.
Fact: Wrong again, the court ruled it a minor dispute versus a major dispute and the IAM has OVERHAULED EVERY SINGLE AIRPLANE this company has flown since 1949 and HAS THE COMPANY'S CONTRACT PROPOSALS from Section 6 Negotiations over the past 54 years where they RECOGNIZED it is IAM COVERED WORK AND ASKED FOR RELIEF! (try again).
4. According to company reports it takes a contractor 13 days to do a narrowbody overhaul and with US Airways' IAM work rules it takes the airline 18 days to do a narrowbody overhaul. Moreover, the asset has 5 less days per overhaul to produce revenue.
Fact: NO airbus has had a S-Check performed in-house, so mr know-it-all, tell us how it would take 18 days? It can take days or a year depending on how the company DECIDES to staff the manpower!
5. The company offered the IAM a proposal to conduct the A320 heavy maintenance in-house, but the IAM refuses to negotiate.
Fact: I have personally spoke with FIVE of the IAM Representatives at the meeting, what the company did was hand the IAM a grievance saying the comapny will outsource 10 airbii and maybe the company and the IAM can meet to discuss how to bring the work in-house!
WHY DO YOU LIE AND PUT OUT MISINFORMATION that you HAVE NO CLUE ABOUT, when you have been told the right information time and time again?
6. The Department of Labor (DOL) says that there are 4 automobile mechanic positions available per year per dealership with a starting wage of less than $17 per hour. However, to obtain these positions a prospect must go to a technical school for 54 weeks and pay $18,000 tuition before they qualify for the job. The DOL did say there are painter/coater mechanics positions available that pay less than $12 per hour.
Fact: The IAM represents thousands of auto mechanics and many of them make more then an aircraft mechanic and at the rate your union is going, you will make less the a 18 year old crop dusting in Iowa.
Industry Avg Hourly Earnings Employment This Month Employment Last Year Change
% Chg
Motor Vehicle Parts & Dealers n/a 1,876,600 1,856,100 22,000
+01.2
Automobile Dealers n/a 1,256,800 1,244,000 12,800
+1.0%
Unfortunately the IAM has been dealt a bad hand of cards and the table has been set. It's really up to the mechanics on what they want to do and it will not affect me one way or another.
Show me in my contract what a bad hand is I have 54 YEARS on my side and my union is not backing down like yours! Don't worry you will be working for Mesa and Orenstien by the end of the year!
Do I want US Airways to survive? Sure I do, but I have options, however, people like Sam Wood and others apparently do not.
You want YOUR job to survive at the cost of OTHERS!
Regards,
USA320Pilot
Piney first, we appreciate your customer loyalty.PineyBob said:
The items you brought up are not really relevant if there is no company, are they.
The truth must be presented and the facts known to the people who read these boards and are confused, believing the rhetoric of big ego union leaders. These leaders will only bring their members’ futures to a screaming halt. Look at what Xidas stated, she doesn't care if the company closes as long as she wins. What kind of leader is that, what kind of mind-set is that? I will tell you, one that needs replaced ASAP. All this posturing on the union leadership’s part is vanity when we are all looking at the end game. Such leadership really isn't leadership at all, but egos and selfishness wanting what they want and not the membership. Maybe they want to leave the company; maybe they don't care if it shuts down, but they are the very small minority. Let’s just hope they are replaced so we as a company can secure the futures of the employees, with the continued attitudes we are seeing there is no hope for any employees at all.
local 12 proud
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usa320 pilot pull your head out of the sand, or wherever you may have it buried. southwest is bringing more maitenance in house due to years of neglect of thier a.c., as for as fed ex goes i happened to work at a third party chop shop who maintained thier a.c. and would'nt fly them either. the airlines can contract it all out if they choose, you see pilot i have other options as well and it does'nt include working for walmart wages and benefits but you can bet your a$$ i dont fly southwest, nor will i fly any L.L.C. ill take the bus instead at least they value maintenace and safety 😀
local 12 proud
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that should have read L.C.C, ie. valujet!
, ........ Please, Please, continue your "fertilizer shoveling" campaign !!!....... It is doing nothing but galvanizing the mechanic work force...Wanna talk about EGO's ????? This mis-management team has evidently decided to remove the term "GOOD FAITH BARGAINING" from their vocabulary!! Want some IAM input ?? HEDGE MORE FUEL !!! Dont' give me the excuse that this company can't AFFORD to Hedge,,, They were able to come up with 6 MILLION DOLLARS to retain so called "Key Personell",, who many Quit ANYWAY as soon as they could without losing their bonuses......And let's not mention the 35 MILLION that the company could of gone after in bankrupcy(EXECUTIVE GOLDEN PARACHUTES) Here's some MORE input. Get those E170's in the Air !! This mis-management team has not begun to benefit from these so-called RJ's and concessions that they already have!!, Just keep shoveling your lies and slanted, twisted, half-truths. There is NO confusion this time. There is ABSOLUTELY no doubt what kind of people we are dealing with.
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You just gotta love USA320pilots tireless and fruitless efforts to attempt to scare people into his way of thinking.
This TPA Mechanic for example , had options beyond riding his lifestyle in TPA into the ground.
17 years would have netted him a secure , or as secure as it gets position in either CLT , PIT or PHL. 15 1/2 years is the bubble mark in CLT...but it's lower in the other 2 hubs.
This person is a worst case example for a number of reasons. He elected to not follow his job....so he has himself to blame for his choices...the work was there and he decided to ride it out in TPA and has also financially painted himself into a corner that he can't escape. That was his call to make , not the IAM's or the companies for that matter. The companies only fault is for how underhanded the TPA ordeal was handled to begin with , No dispute there from my point of view.
This person also lived beyond what I call logical means. His lifestyle was based on the endless overtime that was taking place during the best of times. Remember he said he was knocking down 100K ...as opposed to 50 to 60 K as 40 Hours per week would be netting him. This guy has nobody but himself to blame for over-extending himself to the degree that he did.
Keep in mind , when the press wants to make a story...or when USA320pilot wants to post a story , it will always be from the worst and extreme end of the spectrum to facilitate their objective. The press is motivated to sell a story....and 320pilot is motivated to keep his job at the expense of anyone and everyone at the lower end of the earnings scale.
Know the objective of the poster or messenger before you buy into what they are selling. 320's motives are as always "Self-Serving" to your bitter end. :down:
This TPA Mechanic for example , had options beyond riding his lifestyle in TPA into the ground.
17 years would have netted him a secure , or as secure as it gets position in either CLT , PIT or PHL. 15 1/2 years is the bubble mark in CLT...but it's lower in the other 2 hubs.
This person is a worst case example for a number of reasons. He elected to not follow his job....so he has himself to blame for his choices...the work was there and he decided to ride it out in TPA and has also financially painted himself into a corner that he can't escape. That was his call to make , not the IAM's or the companies for that matter. The companies only fault is for how underhanded the TPA ordeal was handled to begin with , No dispute there from my point of view.
This person also lived beyond what I call logical means. His lifestyle was based on the endless overtime that was taking place during the best of times. Remember he said he was knocking down 100K ...as opposed to 50 to 60 K as 40 Hours per week would be netting him. This guy has nobody but himself to blame for over-extending himself to the degree that he did.
Keep in mind , when the press wants to make a story...or when USA320pilot wants to post a story , it will always be from the worst and extreme end of the spectrum to facilitate their objective. The press is motivated to sell a story....and 320pilot is motivated to keep his job at the expense of anyone and everyone at the lower end of the earnings scale.
Know the objective of the poster or messenger before you buy into what they are selling. 320's motives are as always "Self-Serving" to your bitter end. :down:
I feel very bad for Sam Wood, but no one should use overtime as a measure by which they can live. Base your lifestyle on your base earnings, and use overtime to do or buy something special after the cash is in the bank. Better yet, make sure you have 3 months of cash to live on should something happen including an unforseen serious illness or injury in the family that hurts your ability to earn a wage.
If you need the overtime, cut back, or get a second job where the cash flow is more predictable.
If you need the overtime, cut back, or get a second job where the cash flow is more predictable.
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