A.M.F.A. support at the line stations?

[whoop whoop]

I am doing the same thing for the Union I belong to. The IBT is not all bad. Between the three that I have belonged too, I am most comfortable with Teamsters as my representative. I do not feel like the gains we have made will be stripped away tomorrow or the next. I see my reps often. With AMFA and the IAM, we very rarely saw anybody.

Support who you want for the reasons you want. You all have your reasons and I have mine.

Hi 🙂 ,

Since this thread is almost 30 pages long, I've lost track. Can you please explain again why you support the teamsters over the other 2 unions that were on UAL property?

Thanks.

 

[Anomaly]

It is not your support for the ibt that bothers me, it is more the fact that most of what you claim is wrong with AMFA, is not corrected by belonging to the Teamsters.

In other words, you are a zealot because you will not or simply do not hold the ibt to the same standards you try an hold AMFA too.

How would you know that? If I was complaining about the IBT you would not make that statement would you? Isn't that what you are attempting to do now? Correct all you problems by going to another Union?

My personal issue are in fact less of a problem and have been corrected by belonging to the Teamsters. It frustrates me when people like you tell me what to think, feel, and believe.

Enough with the name calling. I am not Jewish, Buddhist, Baptist..., How do you know MY standards?

 

[Anomaly]

I've dodged nothing.

You're obviously comfortable with closed negotiations, myself and others are not. You have your reasons that you feel validate your position, and we have our reasons to validate our positions.

You want to meet half way? I'm game.

You admit here and now that while you favor closed door negotiations, the teamsters have done a disservice to their members in some of these closed negotiations, and I'll agree that while I favor open negotiations that the company can gain some advantages.

Well, what do you say?

You dodge and twist everything, including this. You need agreement? I'll agree to this statement from you.

" You're obviously comfortable with closed negotiations, myself and others are not. You have your reasons that you feel validate your position, and we have our reasons to validate our positions."

Your next line however does nothing but void out you first. In other words, you will generously allow me to my own beliefs, as long as I admit my beliefs are wrong?

Seriously?

 

[Anomaly]

Hi 🙂 ,

Since this thread is almost 30 pages long, I've lost track. Can you please explain again why you support the teamsters over the other 2 unions that were on UAL property?

Thanks.

Just go back 5 pages dude. I have been asked the same question over and over again and my answer has not changed.

 

[TWU informer]

How would you know that? If I was complaining about the IBT you would not make that statement would you? Isn't that what you are attempting to do now? Correct all you problems by going to another Union?

My personal issue are in fact less of a problem and have been corrected by belonging to the Teamsters. It frustrates me when people like you tell me what to think, feel, and believe.

Enough with the name calling. I am not Jewish, Buddhist, Baptist..., How do you know MY standards?

Simply read the Constitutions.

Why wouldn't an Aircraft Mechanic want an Aircraft Mechanics Union instead of a Bus Drivers of Truck Drivers union?

If we were to really knew your identity and your skill it would all become clear I am sure.

 

[whoop whoop]

Just go back 5 pages dude. I have been asked the same question over and over again and my answer has not changed.

I've read back and cant pin point it over the bickering. In a few sentences, can you explain to me why, it wont take to long.

Thanks, I would really appreciate it.

 

[TWU informer]

Just go back 5 pages dude. I have been asked the same question over and over again and my answer has not changed.

You have still not answered these:

What has the investment return on Campaign Contributions obtained to benefit the profession?

Can you recall an ibt representative at your station or any other station?

Do you even elect the Airline Rep's of the ibt?

Why is there an organization called Teamsters for a Democratic Union?

What exactly has the industrial union strength in numbers idea gotten you, me, or anyone else?

 

[Anomaly]

Hey anomaly,

Please tell me why I should favor the ibt over AMFA or any other union for an A&P?

What positive thing has the ibt accomplished to advance our trade?

I honestly want to know, I would like to see what you see, I am starting to understand you. Can you give me a few examples though.

Thank you.

This is what conversing with each other is about, understanding other points of view.

I am not telling you why YOU should favor anybody. I simply explained time and time again that I do not have the same scorn for the IBT. I am not here to change minds and opinions, I am simply stating the experiences as I have encountered them.

You are looking to have a debate with a Teamster Organizer or International Rep. I am not that guy.

At UAL we are now Teamsters. I am comfortable with that. I am not trying to sell a product or influence any body. I am simply stating that in my personal opinion, I feel better about being in the Teamsters than the other two Unions I have been in.

 

[Anomaly]

I can see it now. When we merge with American. There will be a 3 way shoot out with the IAM AMFA and the Teamsters. I am hearing that we (US Airways) could be starting a Teamster card drive here. The IAM is justing waiting for the merger to happen.

Apparently we are just around the corner too. Good luck bud. This stuff gets UGLY

 

[whoop whoop]

I am not telling you why YOU should favor anybody. I simply explained time and time again that I do not have the same scorn for the IBT. I am not here to change minds and opinions, I am simply stating the experiences as I have encountered them.

You are looking to have a debate with a Teamster Organizer or International Rep. I am not that guy.

At UAL we are now Teamsters. I am comfortable with that. I am not trying to sell a product or influence any body. I am simply stating that in my personal opinion, I feel better about being in the Teamsters than the other two Unions I have been in.

All I am trying to find out is why YOU Anomaly, are comfortable with the ibt, thats all. We are both A&P's working for UAL, represented by the ibt. I am curious why we see things so differently, thats all.

I have never said you are trying to sell anything. I am trying to understand you as a person.

Thanks

 

[TWU informer]

I am not with the TWU, or AMFA, but it interesting how readily the association supporters are willing to throw up the "lets compare" argument. How can you compare philosophies and wishes with reality and fact? Fact: TWU has kept work in house at AA while every other airline has outsourced. Fact; AMFA has consistently lost work to MRO vendors at each and every one of their current and former properties. Fact; other Unions fight to bring back work and improve language to create more in house jobs creating recalls and hiring new mechanics. Fact; AMFA cuts it's losses promising more to those few mechanics who remain. Fact; In a merger situation other Unions such as the Teamsters will continue to fight for the rights of their former employees (Air Trans/ Southwest, Teamsters continue to fight for seniority rights for Air Tran former IBT members). Fact; AMFA says "see ya" to former members even before the ink is dry (Mesaba Airlines former and longest running AMFA mechanics were systematically dumped by AMFA Local 11 on Jan 4, 2012 after merging with Pinnacle. A few conference calls and a couple of meetings were initiated but Mesaba mechanics were mostly left out to dry). In the end, AMFA simply has nothing but pie in the sky promises that simply can never expect to become reality. Just ask the former UAL AMFA members. They were promised plenty, then left after a few short years for a reason (the vote to leave AMFA was around 70% I think?). There is no comparison, AMFA will leave you with dreams.

I am not telling you why YOU should favor anybody. I simply explained time and time again that I do not have the same scorn for the IBT. I am not here to change minds and opinions, I am simply stating the experiences as I have encountered them.

You are looking to have a debate with a Teamster Organizer or International Rep. I am not that guy.

At UAL we are now Teamsters. I am comfortable with that. I am not trying to sell a product or influence any body. I am simply stating that in my personal opinion, I feel better about being in the Teamsters than the other two Unions I have been in.

You are clearly a liar and morphing as we discuss this.

The top post above is your first post on this thread.

If you want us to consider the ibt then give us the reasons you believe so.
Instead, you are nothing more than smear and fear, and nothing you have feared and smeared about AMFA has been resolved by your membership in the ibt.

 

[TWU informer]

Apparently we are just around the corner too. Good luck bud. This stuff gets UGLY

Who is "WE"?

Anyway related to the "THEY" you always speak of?

Will I end up with a Dead Horse head on the hood of my car or somethinig?
I hear that is a known tactic of the ibt strong arm appointees.

 

[whoop whoop]

You have still not answered these:

What has the investment return on Campaign Contributions obtained to benefit the profession?

Can you recall an ibt representative at your station or any other station?

Do you even elect the Airline Rep's of the ibt?

Why is there an organization called Teamsters for a Democratic Union?

What exactly has the industrial union strength in numbers idea gotten you, me, or anyone else?

I'll answer for Anomaly since he can't answer 1 question, LOL.

None....
No.....
No.....
Because they are tired of the corruption and deceit of the ibt and have been trying to change it from within for the last 30 years, LOL... (poor guys)
It has gotten us as A&P's nothing, but it has gotten the rampers good money. And it has helped airline execs keep our costs in line of where they want them to be..... in turn giving themselves bonuses........ it has also helped the uneducated get high positions within these organizations living a life they would of never been able to achieve otherwise.

 

[Anomaly]

The SAMC LOA came about during a layoff when hundreds of UAL mechanics were hitting the street. At the same time SAMC was being moved from SFO to ORD and many of the SFO controllers did not want to move. While some of the controllers were former mechanics, the majority were and always had been management. The ibt by way of the LOA granted them seniority which they didn't earn which allowed some to bump now junior mechanics to the street when these controllers returned to mechanic positions to avoid being sent to ORD.

When word of this LOA first leaked out, an SFO BA was asked specifically about it, and he claimed he knew nothing, then the copies of the LOA made it to the floor and it turned out the LOA had been signed weeks before. So either the BA was lying, or Clacy Griswold(who signed the LOA) never told the BAs. Either case is totally unacceptable.

I know very little about the SAMC group or agreement. Do they have a contract? What does their contract say about seniority? When was the contract put in to effect? For the matter, when did the SAMC control group organize and who represented them before? For chucks and giggles, I asked some of the other mechanics at work about this group, including our Steward. Nobody knew anything about this, or the LOA you are describing. I am not doubting or denying your comments, it is just unknown to us on the floor.

 

[TWU informer]

This sounds like something we should all be concerned about

The Beginnings of TDU
Teamsters for a Democratic Union


In 1975, the Teamsters were in trouble. Union officials had allowed organized crime to infiltrate the highest levels of the Union.

The mob was raiding members’ pension funds to build casinos in Las Vegas, Nevada.

Teamster officials were taking payoffs from employers and selling out the members.

“There is no jurisdiction of safety within our ranks,” a Los Angeles Teamster said at the time, “and anyone who speaks with conviction shall be haunted by a specter of fear.”

And more...

Winning Contract Rights

The IBT feared a similar embarrassment on the 1985 UPS contract. A new agreement was secretly negotiated months before the contract expired. Ballots were secretly printed up and mailed to members along with slick promotional material calling it the “Best Contract Ever.” Members had not even known negotiations were underway!

TDU sued the IBT over this quickie vote. The court voided the vote and ruled that members had to be given a meaningful opportunity to debate contract proposals before they were voted on. It was the last quickie vote the IBT would pull.

Soon after, TDU beat the hated “two-thirds rule.” In 1987 and 1988, a majority of UPS and freight Teamsters rejected their contracts. But since a two-thirds super-majority was required to reject an agreement, the union declared the contracts approved. TDU and New York Local 804 President Ron Carey challenged the two-thirds rule in court. Under pressure, the IBT General Executive Board eliminated the two-thirds rule. The rank-and-file had won majority rule on contract votes.

And still more....

Corruption at the Top
At the 1981 IBT Convention, TDU delegate Diana Kilmur, stood before the hostile audience and proposed the creation of an Ethical Practices Committee within the union. “What are you afraid of?” she asked. The corrupt IBT leadership had a lot to be afraid of.

Much of the corruption involved the Central States Pension Fund. In 1982, Teamster President Roy Williams, Central States Pension Fund administrator Allen Dorfman, and pension fund trustees were convicted of attempting to bribe a U.S. senator.

Dorfman had used the pension fund as a piggy bank for the mob. He had split kickbacks with James Hoffa, Sr. and been a business partner of James Hoffa, Jr.

In 1983, Williams was charged with extortion and links to organized crime. Williams and Dorfman were plotting with the mob to take back control of the Central States Pension Fund. Williams later admitted in court that the Teamster leadership was controlled by organized crime.

The next Teamster President, Jackie Presser, was no better. At the time of the 1986 IBT Convention, he was under a multi-count indictment including charges of racketeering and embezzlement.

Not done yet....

Re-Run Election
Just weeks after the 1997 UPS strike victory, the IBT Election Officer ordered a rerun of the prior year’s Teamster election. The Election Officer found that outside consultants to the Ron Carey campaign had funneled $220,000 in union funds to the campaign and then pocketed some of the money themselves. No evidence was found that Carey knew of the scheme, and he was later found not guilty of any wrongdoing by a federal court.

In late 1997, Carey was disqualified from running for office. Hoffa was not disqualified, even though it was ruled that he had taken $167,000 in employer contributions and another $160,000 in union funds for his campaign.

The old guard, which had been silenced by the UPS strike victory, was re-energized.

At this crucial time, TDU worked to unite the reform forces within the Teamsters. Officials who had only hopped on the Carey band-wagon when he looked like the winner switched their support to Hoffa. Others held firm to their principles.

The reform movement united around the candidacy of Tom Leedham, principal officer of Oregon Local 206.
The media predicted a landslide victory for Hoffa, who had name recognition and a huge campaign war chest. Despite these advantages, Hoffa won with just 54% of the vote. Where TDU was most active and strong, Leedham won, winning a majority of the vote in 19 states and 135 local unions.