A.M.F.A. support at the line stations?

[TWU informer]

Why does my support for the IBT bother you ???

It is not your support for the ibt that bothers me, it is more the fact that most of what you claim is wrong with AMFA, is not corrected by belonging to the Teamsters.

In other words, you are a zealot because you will not or simply do not hold the ibt to the same standards you try an hold AMFA too.

I am actually finding that the ibt being here in Tulsa has done nothing more than create more discussion on the floor about change here at AA and the differences between industrial union and craft union ideaology. I have enjoyed conversion of the TWU hardcores actually opening up to the idea of seeking a change now. It is great!

I am all for open debate and voting.

 

[TWU informer]

Finally, you admit that AMFA is NOT always the purely democratic Union. They too are subject to mistakes and bad decisions.

Making progress.

What is ironic is that you speak of all unions in terms of "THEY"

Who is "THEY" in the ibt?

Who is "THEY" in AMFA?

I know who "THEY" is in the TWU, it is leaders and a structure that makes the member the dues payer and "THEY" are the union.

But wouldn't you agree that ALL UNIONS should be "WE"?

Now you hav another question on your plate...."WHO IS THEY"?

 

[whoop whoop]

Hey anomaly,

Please tell me why I should favor the ibt over AMFA or any other union for an A&P?

What positive thing has the ibt accomplished to advance our trade?

I honestly want to know, I would like to see what you see, I am starting to understand you. Can you give me a few examples though.

Thank you.

This is what conversing with each other is about, understanding other points of view.

 

[whoop whoop]

Either that or I work mids. Did you know lap tops are portable? Whatever....

This is the million dollar post I have been waiting for.

SWAMT, you are all over the internet and have 854 posts just on this forum.

Whoop Whoop, is in for 124, but I swear I have read his same dialog on other sites,

Third Seat Hero spews propaganda from UAL at 815,

xUT pushes the BS broom with 1,876 posts

Ken Mac Tiernan proudly speaks his mind with 2,137 posts

Although I do not understand or read half of his babel, Buck makes the list at 4,411 posts.

And topping the list is TWA Informer who has enough time to post 5,294 unintelligible ANGRY posts,

And you think I am the one being paid???

All of you have something to gain from this!! If you did not, what the hell would you care about the opinion of ONE MECHANIC?

Do you see anyone rushing in to help me? AMFA has what 2400 mechanics compared to the IBT's constantly advertised 1.4 million, and TWU has somewhere over 117,000 according to the web. If I am paid, where are the others???

The enlightening revelation, is that the only ones desperately trying to save their jobs, or their hopes of a future return to a Union job, are those people I listed above.

This is the revalation that has become perfectly obvious to me. You are all incredibly afraid that one single mechanic, like me, can shatter the illusions of fear you have created for the "big bad industrial Unions".

You hate my opinions because you fear they could catch on and destroy your hopes for ANOTHER campaign, or overtake your delusions of grandeur.

The IBT did not come in and save us at UAL. They did not live up to all my expectations. They did not get me everything I had expected. BUT STILL, they have not taken anything away from me, and they have actually helped me to see some improvements in my life, and work area. I finally feel comfortable again after so many years worrying from day to day. Of course they make decisions that I do not agree with, but trust and faith starts somewhere. So far, they have earned my trust.

Bouncing back and fourth between Unions does me no good. Although I disagree with them at times, I am very satisfied with the IBT. I have no problem proclaiming that. It is you all who have a problem hearing it.

Why does my support for the IBT bother you ???

Again, this is why people are confrontational with you. You point to all the posts everyone on your list have taken years to post, while you have almost as much as I do in a matter of a few days. APPLES and ORANGES brother.

It's not the FULL truth.

 

[swamt]

You cry, but can not deny it. Open negotiations can be an advantage to the company.

Once again, this is where you are wrong again. So you agree with the TWU and teamsters behind closed doors deals with out membership comminicated to about negos? Then you keep them.

 

[JetMech321]

I can see it now. When we merge with American. There will be a 3 way shoot out with the IAM AMFA and the Teamsters. I am hearing that we (US Airways) could be starting a Teamster card drive here. The IAM is justing waiting for the merger to happen.

 

[swamt]

Are you truly that ignorant?

You're responding to a Southwest Airlines Mechanic!

They know all to well how CLOSED negotiations WERE an advantage to the company..... with the ibt in the room.

HOTEL ROOM that is! Clacy Griswold met with Parker and gave back retro pay on a newly negotiated paid lunch....this of course led to the teamsters ousting at SWA.

I'm impressed with your knowledge of this sitstuation since it happend at SWA. AND this was not the first time nor was it the last. All the way to the end, when we fired the teamsters, they were still doing under the table, behind closed door deals. Once this particular incident was prooven, the company started to think that Parker was no longer fit for the position. Along with the way Parker represented "SWA" the company in negos with the F/A's and then the mechs was his start of his removal from his position, after this private meeting it was one of the final straws.

 

[whoop whoop]

http://tdu.org/files/who-we-are.pdf.

Again, why should the AA guys want the ibt????? I think A&P's are having enough trouble with our employers, let alone have to deal with all the ibt nonsense.

 

[swamt]

Either that or I work mids. Did you know lap tops are portable? Whatever....

This is the million dollar post I have been waiting for.

SWAMT, you are all over the internet and have 854 posts just on this forum.

Whoop Whoop, is in for 124, but I swear I have read his same dialog on other sites,

Third Seat Hero spews propaganda from UAL at 815,

xUT pushes the BS broom with 1,876 posts

Ken Mac Tiernan proudly speaks his mind with 2,137 posts

Although I do not understand or read half of his babel, Buck makes the list at 4,411 posts.

And topping the list is TWA Informer who has enough time to post 5,294 unintelligible ANGRY posts,

And you think I am the one being paid???

All of you have something to gain from this!! If you did not, what the hell would you care about the opinion of ONE MECHANIC?

Do you see anyone rushing in to help me? AMFA has what 2400 mechanics compared to the IBT's constantly advertised 1.4 million, and TWU has somewhere over 117,000 according to the web. If I am paid, where are the others???

The enlightening revelation, is that the only ones desperately trying to save their jobs, or their hopes of a future return to a Union job, are those people I listed above.

This is the revalation that has become perfectly obvious to me. You are all incredibly afraid that one single mechanic, like me, can shatter the illusions of fear you have created for the "big bad industrial Unions".

You hate my opinions because you fear they could catch on and destroy your hopes for ANOTHER campaign, or overtake your delusions of grandeur.

The IBT did not come in and save us at UAL. They did not live up to all my expectations. They did not get me everything I had expected. BUT STILL, they have not taken anything away from me, and they have actually helped me to see some improvements in my life, and work area. I finally feel comfortable again after so many years worrying from day to day. Of course they make decisions that I do not agree with, but trust and faith starts somewhere. So far, they have earned my trust.

Bouncing back and fourth between Unions does me no good. Although I disagree with them at times, I am very satisfied with the IBT. I have no problem proclaiming that. It is you all who have a problem hearing it.

Why does my support for the IBT bother you ???

Your support for any union does not bother me. The only reason I did strt to post in the AA forums was to correct all the lies and political BS that any one would twist up to make AMFA look bad. Like when you say open nego gives the co. a better advantage. WRONG! Deals done behind closed doors is much more favorable to the co. Period...

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

For purely selfish reasons. 74-1M affected me during the next lay off. Rather than go back east where my family was, and i could have gone if the LOA was still enforceable, I was forced to the base. I was hired on the line, and always thought I would be able to work the line with my seniority. AMFA change that. A Union should never have a negative impact on it's members. AMFA did. We get enough of that from the company.

I am not aware of the SAMC controller seniority or how it could affect me.

Over all, through this entire thread, one thing has become perfectly clear to me. I hope it is becoming clear to the others who read this but do not engage.

"For purely selfish reasons"

So as long as teamsters do nothing to adversely affect you directly you're okay with them?

I for one, do not like being deliberately misled/lied to nor do I like deals cut in secret that affect my contract.

The SAMC LOA came about during a layoff when hundreds of UAL mechanics were hitting the street. At the same time SAMC was being moved from SFO to ORD and many of the SFO controllers did not want to move. While some of the controllers were former mechanics, the majority were and always had been management. The ibt by way of the LOA granted them seniority which they didn't earn which allowed some to bump now junior mechanics to the street when these controllers returned to mechanic positions to avoid being sent to ORD.

When word of this LOA first leaked out, an SFO BA was asked specifically about it, and he claimed he knew nothing, then the copies of the LOA made it to the floor and it turned out the LOA had been signed weeks before. So either the BA was lying, or Clacy Griswold(who signed the LOA) never told the BAs. Either case is totally unacceptable.


Under AMFA when my Airline Rep was involved with the removal of LOA74-1 we had a mechanism for removing by recall which I utilized and voted on.

Under the teamsters what mechanism do we have for this same situation?

I too hope this is becoming clear to the others reading this thread.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

And still you dodge the fact that the company knows the Unions plans with open negotiations. Look at this board, and the many others like it. I see you, SWAMT, and xUT on many other forums all selling the same snake oil. You all pretend AMFA will be the savior of our craft. I am not buying it, and calling you on it. That is the reason we are still engaging.

I am selling nothing. I am simply sticking up for my Union because they have done better than the other two so far. This is my opinion.

Why do you care that I think that? Wht does it bother you that I do not feel hatred towards the IBT or any of it's leadership?

They have not given me everything I hoped for and expected, but they certainly have not taken away either. LOA 74 was just one thing about AMFA that impacted me. I tried them, but in the end, AMFA FAILED ME. Why does this bother you so much?

I'll ask again, which has become routine, do you deny being an elected AMFA rep???

I've dodged nothing.

You're obviously comfortable with closed negotiations, myself and others are not. You have your reasons that you feel validate your position, and we have our reasons to validate our positions.

You want to meet half way? I'm game.

You admit here and now that while you favor closed door negotiations, the teamsters have done a disservice to their members in some of these closed negotiations, and I'll agree that while I favor open negotiations that the company can gain some advantages.

Well, what do you say?

You cry how you are sticking up for your union and this is your opinion yet when somebody has a differing opinion they are snake oil salesmen.

You are entitled to your opinion, I do not nor will I ever dispute that. You are however NOT entitled to twist facts and in some cases lie to defend that opinion, on that you have and will be called on.

As for your last question I'll be happy to tell you what my elected status was in the IAM/AMFA/ibt just as soon as you tell me what position it is you hold in the teamsters.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Finally, you admit that AMFA is NOT always the purely democratic Union. They too are subject to mistakes and bad decisions.

Making progress.

And again, when did I ever deny this? And at least under AMFA I was able to recall the offending party.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Either that or I work mids. Did you know lap tops are portable? Whatever....

This is the million dollar post I have been waiting for.

SWAMT, you are all over the internet and have 854 posts just on this forum.

Whoop Whoop, is in for 124, but I swear I have read his same dialog on other sites,

Third Seat Hero spews propaganda from UAL at 815,

xUT pushes the BS broom with 1,876 posts

Ken Mac Tiernan proudly speaks his mind with 2,137 posts

Although I do not understand or read half of his babel, Buck makes the list at 4,411 posts.

And topping the list is TWA Informer who has enough time to post 5,294 unintelligible ANGRY posts,

And you think I am the one being paid???

All of you have something to gain from this!! If you did not, what the hell would you care about the opinion of ONE MECHANIC?

Do you see anyone rushing in to help me? AMFA has what 2400 mechanics compared to the IBT's constantly advertised 1.4 million, and TWU has somewhere over 117,000 according to the web. If I am paid, where are the others???

The enlightening revelation, is that the only ones desperately trying to save their jobs, or their hopes of a future return to a Union job, are those people I listed above.

This is the revalation that has become perfectly obvious to me. You are all incredibly afraid that one single mechanic, like me, can shatter the illusions of fear you have created for the "big bad industrial Unions".

You hate my opinions because you fear they could catch on and destroy your hopes for ANOTHER campaign, or overtake your delusions of grandeur.

The IBT did not come in and save us at UAL. They did not live up to all my expectations. They did not get me everything I had expected. BUT STILL, they have not taken anything away from me, and they have actually helped me to see some improvements in my life, and work area. I finally feel comfortable again after so many years worrying from day to day. Of course they make decisions that I do not agree with, but trust and faith starts somewhere. So far, they have earned my trust.

Bouncing back and fourth between Unions does me no good. Although I disagree with them at times, I am very satisfied with the IBT. I have no problem proclaiming that. It is you all who have a problem hearing it.

Why does my support for the IBT bother you ???

Why does my support for the IBT bother you ???

Why does my lack of support for the ibt bother you???

Third Seat Hero spews propaganda from UAL at 815

I've been on USAviation since late 2004, you've got over a tenth of my posts in just a few weeks.

As far as "spews propaganda" comment, Its hilarious to watch you wail away how you're just voicing your opinion/supporting your union, yet when somebody voices their opinion or corrects you on matters of FACT, they are the ones spewing propaganda. Thanks for yet another example of your flagrant hypocrisy.

All of you have something to gain from this!! If you did not, what the hell would you care about the opinion of ONE MECHANIC?

Right back at you Anomaly! What are you here for? What do you stand to gain? If you're just here trying to defend your union why is that such an impossibility for the rest of us? What the hell would you care if we disagreed with you?

The enlightening revelation, is that the only ones desperately trying to save their jobs, or their hopes of a future return to a Union job, are those people I listed above.

Oh so again its never about the reality of good representation its all about selfish gains and gaining/keeping a union position.....So again ... RIGHT BACK AT YOU! You are only here trying to gain a union job by advancing the ibt at American, you are only afraid of losing your teamster job at UAL if an AMFA win bolsters a drive on UAL and we throw the ibt to the curb.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

I'm impressed with your knowledge of this sitstuation since it happend at SWA. AND this was not the first time nor was it the last. All the way to the end, when we fired the teamsters, they were still doing under the table, behind closed door deals. Once this particular incident was prooven, the company started to think that Parker was no longer fit for the position. Along with the way Parker represented "SWA" the company in negos with the F/A's and then the mechs was his start of his removal from his position, after this private meeting it was one of the final straws.

During the ibts campaign on UAL an SWA mechanic visted and showed us the transcript from the arbitration where the details of this were made public.

 

[Anomaly]

Your support for any union does not bother me. The only reason I did strt to post in the AA forums was to correct all the lies and political BS that any one would twist up to make AMFA look bad. Like when you say open nego gives the co. a better advantage. WRONG! Deals done behind closed doors is much more favorable to the co. Period...

I am doing the same thing for the Union I belong to. The IBT is not all bad. Between the three that I have belonged too, I am most comfortable with Teamsters as my representative. I do not feel like the gains we have made will be stripped away tomorrow or the next. I see my reps often. With AMFA and the IAM, we very rarely saw anybody.

Support who you want for the reasons you want. You all have your reasons and I have mine.