A.M.F.A. support at the line stations?

[ThirdSeatHero]

During my sanity break from this subject, I went to help out with my Granddaughters school. They were having an end of year party and I was helping at one of the areas near a face painting table. At one point, two children began arguing about the design painted on one of the faces. One thought it meant a bad thing and the other did not. The image was three horizontal lines about an inch long and ¼ inch wide and drawn1/2 inch below the eye. You see the same thing on football players during a game. The issue was the colors. These were Green Yellow and Red. One child was upset because he felt the colors used represented a negative image. The other said it did not and they argued.

Finally, the kid who objected became upset. In a fit, he threw down a straw to a juice box he was holding, called the other kid a “potty face” and walked away. Potty face kid shrugged his shoulders, and ran to do something else. I asked the lady who painted the faces what that was about? She said he asked for a football player type black line under his eye, but being toward the end of the day, she was out of black. She asked if he had another favorite color, he picked Green Yellow and Red. All three colors she had left.

Walking away made me think of you and this page. Not because of anything in particular related to the second grade potty face, but because of your childish approach to this forum.

In life, people will always disagree. I may like cigars, and remark of their sweet and smooth taste. You may not and think they are foul and smelly. Does this make either of us liars, snibblers, zealots, or sub standard mechanics? It is a difference of opinion, nothing more.

My opinion of AMFA at UAL is much different from that of Third Seat Hero’s. He saw the actions of AMFA as acceptable Union politics, I saw them as unorganized chaos. However, we both agree on at least two things. 1; An AMFA rep removed an important LOA from our agreement, and 2; AMFA is no longer our representative. We continue to disagree on the results or byproducts of the two. I am OK with that.

I do not agree with him but could not go so far as to call him a liar. He may interpret circumstances different than I, and may form a completely opposite opinion, but who am I to call him a “potty face” because I cannot get him to agree with my position?

With that said, I have no problem with the Teamster Constitution. I have no problem with appointing the best person rather than voting the most popular. I have no problem with the jurisdiction. I definitely have no problem with the recall language, even though you believe it does not exist.

Just because you cannot find it does not mean recall (removal) does not happen. In fact, a San Francisco BA was removed from his "lifetime appointed position" because the elected President and Executive board believed he was not living up to membership’s expectations. I personally had no issue with him, but still, the guy they hired to replace him is genuinely superb. This second guy does one hell of a good job and I have no problem saying that.

To remove the BA, there was no election needed, no petition, no two year time limit, no campaign. One day he was just gone, and the new guy was there to take over. The new BA is doing a good job.

I admit to being wary of some of the new ideas the IBT brings to the table, but for now at least, I do not have any real problem with most of them.

My one concern that I do wish was different, is that of the location of the Locals. I will admit that for some stations to have to go to another state for a meeting at their "Local" is a bit unconventional. I am not sold on that one. At the same time, AMFA does not have a Local at every one of their stations either. For them too, some members would have to travel to attend a meeting.

People will always disagree. You sir could benefit by learning to live with that.

As I was mentioned in your post above I wanted to add a small comment.

As you stated we are all entitled to our opinions, however we are not entitled to our own facts.

If you wish to state that you're fine with appointed individuals, thats fine. I simply disagree.

That said when you claim things such as AMFA had no elections, and no one was recalled, thats an outright lie, and you have and will be called on it.

BTW on the subject of the SFO BA that was removed, he had been complained about for well over a YEAR before anything was done, and lets be clear, he was removed by the Local, NOT recalled. It never took that long to recall someone in AMFA.

 

[Buck]

I see....so where was this concern about polarizing the membership when you were busy campaigning for the teamsters when AMFA was our representative?

And at anytime was the TWU, in any manner or form, from any local, division or the TWU international working with or in conjunction with the Teamster / IBT in any way? Or have there been any history between the TWU or the IBT? Or are they, the TWU and IBT working together now or are you Anomoly working with either the TWU or the Teamsters.

 

[Anomaly]

No doubt that NWA and their allies defeated AMFA at NWA, however mechanics tend to land on their feet and I suppose most of them did as well. I heard a lawyer talking about how one was working in Home depot, but then again maybe thats where he belonged all along? We see many NWA veterans posting here, just as with the EAL IAM Veterans, I dont here any of them saying they should have given in to the company. We keep our tools on wheels for a reason you know. But the IBT has had their share of losses as well. I deeply respected Ron Carey and saw him as a leader with the potential to reverse Labors decline. He kicked UPs' but and he was punished because of it but Hoffa has been less successful as documented in the film "American Standoff" (2002) about the Overnight trucking strike.

Unions must fight, and the leaders must lead and not be spectators, we will lose some battles but thats the price we must be willing to pay. It was the price paid by those who built the labor movement and its the price we must pay to restore it.

Nearly every year I march in the NY labor day Parade, and sadly the Union Bosses dont march, they sit in special bleachers set up for them. To me it simply highlights the disconnect. Did Hoffa JR ever even drive a truck? (and the Excursion doesnt count as a truck, if it doesnt have air brakes its not a truck)

All good points.

 

[whoop whoop]

What or who is a SCABster?

"The SCABsters crossed the Pickett line of fellow A&P's at NWA....." By this, can I presume you are a former NWA mechanic?

One more...... http://tdu.org/

SCABsters, the only corporation (oh sorry), union that has an internal organization made up of members trying to change the corporation (sorry sorry), union from within. They have been at it for over 20 years.

Ask yourself, why would any one want to even get involved with a corporation (my mistake), union that is so divided like the SCABsters?

The SCABsters promised CAL they would never try to organize the ramp!!! They organized the ramp, then lost them 8 months later.. HAHAHA!!!!! ( first time I ever was on the side of the SCAB I.A.M.)


The SCABsters tried to tell CAL the company was going to get rid of the defined pension to try and scare the membership into their failed Western Conference PP. Not even 2 months later CAL announced they are depositing something like 200 million into the plan!!!!!!!


The SCABsters decided for CAL to take a pay cut when we had an out not to or at least re-vote!! Convenient since they received raises that year... and CAL was not in bankruptcy!!!!!!

While organizing UAL , the SCABsters picketed UAL hubs about outsourcing A&P jobs, yet let CAL outsource more than 65% of CAL's work!!!!!!!

The SCABsters lost some of their members from Waste Management out in Cali during a strike. They struck a deal with the company to keep the scabs and not return the strikers.

The SCABsters at CAL, now the new UA have at least 5 SCABS as business Agents and above.....

A&P's are not even 1% of the SCABsters.... do you really think they are concerned about you?????

The SCABsters crossed the Pickett line of fellow A&P's at NWA..... now they want to represent A&P's????? Laughable!!!!


The SCABsters have never lead us in anything but the spiral down. They have never negotiated tops of industry in anything for the A&P's, they have just played mediocre at best...... Wait........... They have lead in something for us..... OUTSOURCING of our profession.

SWA before AMFA
UPS
CAL
FRONTIER

All with the lowest rates of mechanics to planes. All with the highest rates of outsourcing of maintenance.

AMFA might of won the strike with NWA if the IAM and their corporate equals, the SCABsters would not of helped NWA break the mechanics.

AMFA is the only choice for the A&P. We control our own destiny.

Ask yourselves one thing, why does the SCABsters really care about us and our plight? They can't even get their own trucking industry in order. We are a revenue stream for them, that is ALL. They are not a union, they are a corporation and we are their product.
Same goes for the TWU and the iam.

 

[whoop whoop]

What or who is a SCABster?

"The SCABsters crossed the Pickett line of fellow A&P's at NWA....." By this, can I presume you are a former NWA mechanic?

It's funny, you have so much negative to say about AMFA, but yet no rebuttals to this, or anything good to say about the teamsters.

No, I am an A&P mechanic that happens to be employed by UAL at the moment. Why would you presume I was an NWA mechanic? That is an industrial unionist mentality, if it doesn't affect me, why should I care? Well, guess what buddy, I care about every A&P out there. Even the ones making $9/hr in general aviation...

I have one question for you, why should the AA mechanics and related go with the teamsters over AMFA???

 

[Anomaly]

As I was mentioned in your post above I wanted to add a small comment.

As you stated we are all entitled to our opinions, however we are not entitled to our own facts.

If you wish to state that you're fine with appointed individuals, thats fine. I simply disagree.

That said when you claim things such as AMFA had no elections, and no one was recalled, thats an outright lie, and you have and will be called on it.

BTW on the subject of the SFO BA that was removed, he had been complained about for well over a YEAR before anything was done, and lets be clear, he was removed by the Local, NOT recalled. It never took that long to recall someone in AMFA.

I agree on the SFO BA. Some did have issues with him the moment he stepped in to office. I, on the other hand was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. I would be as defensive if an AMFA rep was recalled immediately after taking office. Other than gross dereliction, stealing from the members or other such crime, I would like us to at least give a guy a chance. Too much to ask?

As for your statement regarding the recall subject; I will copy my original post mentioning this.

"Elections? there were none. (disclaimer: my original entire post did mention that AMFA had their share of elections. My explanation of "there were none" is associated with the topic of the LOA only. For this topic, there was NO election) You cant recall a rep from another station and nobody wanted to recall their own. It was insane. Nothing was getting done and more of our work went out the door. To prove power, one group of "leaders" decided on their own to completely wipe out a contract LOA 74-1M which allowed furlough mechanics to bump to the same classification. There was no vote for that. The members were informed after the deed had been done. It was legal because the contract said that either party could terminate the agreement at any time by mutual agreement, but WTF? They did not even tell us? That was my last straw and the day I was convinced they would be the end of all of us. When the Teamsters finally showed, I was relieved to sign a card and join them."

At the time I was working in one of our larger line stations outside of SFO. We did not appreciate the one who was responsible for this LOA being removed from our contract (at least the guy who was blamed to be responsible was an officer of a different Local). As he was not part of the Local I belonged to at the time, there was no avenue for me to initiate recall.

Another FACT; LOA 74 was removed without a vote. This is an important issues with me because AMFA claims members have a right to vote in all decisions regarding the contract. That your Local later removed an officer, did not return this letter or repair the damage to AMFA's integrity.

 

[xUT]

That’s why I love you guys with your circular thinking and jabberwocky hyperbole. Saying a lot without actually saying anything.

95% complete? And it only took nearly 5 years to get to that 95%. Before you say it, neither one of those statements are true. The IBT did not drop the grievance, and AMFA was not only at 95%. It did not take them 5 years either. AMFA did error on staying on top of the outsourcing issue, and the company was able to take advantage of this.

Which is it? 5 years or not 5 years? Where is this grievance now under the IBT? “DEAD”

At the same time, AMFA actually did improve the language by adding mandatory audits. Unfortunately, they could not afford to pay for these audits themselves and required financial assistance from the company. What type of audit do you expect to get when the group you are auditing is the one paying for the audit?

What? The CBA stipulated the company pay some of the ‘independent auditor’ fees. You do know what ‘independent’ means don’t you? They are not paying the ‘auditor’.
The company knew their convoluted accounting would be almost impossible to decipher and then throw in a little proprietary/confidential razzle-dazzle/brouhaha and that’s why you need professional third party ‘independent’ auditors.
Yes, the company paid AMFA for some audit fees and AMFA paid the auditors. Can’t see how the company could sway the audit, but hey, you must know.

AMFA also added language to the contract to help pay for such items. This money was readily paid by the company to the Union, but it was taken out of funds that would have gone to the membership.

That’s what the CBA allows. Now your testing my patience as the funds was to pay the auditors “FOR” the membership. Probably your IBT ‘bait and switch’ mentality that the funds should go to Lil’Jimmy and his band of thieves and ignore the grievance. Which is what is transpiring now.

How ‘bout them apples?

I like apples but apparently you prefer turd pies. Keep eating those turds and the IBT lies and spin.

If you are good with that xUT, you can make your own donations. I pay Union dues. I expect the Union to be able to afford to represent me, not take it out of my collective bargaining agreement.

Man, what a dichotomy of interests. You pay union dues to be represented but do not want to pay for protection for outsourcing your job.
(Thanks for the bump in union dues BTW)

Brother, you need help!

I answer the questions, you just want a different answer.

You didn’t answer anything. I am not looking for an answer but the “TRUTH”, which you have not provided.

B) xUT

 

[Anomaly]

And at anytime was the TWU, in any manner or form, from any local, division or the TWU international working with or in conjunction with the Teamster / IBT in any way? Or have there been any history between the TWU or the IBT? Or are they, the TWU and IBT working together now or are you Anomoly working with either the TWU or the Teamsters.

How the hell would I know what the IBT and TWU doing? The rest of your questions are getting old. I already answered them.

 

[American Workers Union]

Reading all this crap on this site is good enough reason to vote all unions out and start with a Union that his not tied with Little, Hoffa, AMP idiots, and AMFA bigger idiots.

 

[Anomaly]

That’s why I love you guys with your circular thinking and jabberwocky hyperbole. Saying a lot without actually saying anything.

I could say the same thing about you and your group. From my point of view, the spin is coming from you and AMFA. Any AMFA weakness is deflected as a Teamster lie or circular way of thinking. No wonder politics is such a dirty business.

We disagree on the assumed benefits of being represented by AMFA and all the insults you can throw my way will not change that fact.

 

[Buck]

How the hell would I know what the IBT and TWU doing? The rest of your questions are getting old. I already answered them.

You've answered nothing.

 

[Anomaly]

Reading all this crap on this site is good enough reason to vote all unions out and start with a Union that his not tied with Little, Hoffa, AMP idiots, and AMFA bigger idiots.

With that, time for a beer.

I truly regret that I have contributed to that opinion.

 

[whoop whoop]

Let's not let this SCAB teamster lover hijack this and any other thread anymore. He is trying to turn people off to any useful conversations and it is working.

Back to the subject of this thread, how are the line stations doing with the AMFA drive? I'm sure it should be easier this time around, I would hope.

 

[Anomaly]

Let's not let this SCAB teamster lover hijack this and any other thread anymore. He is trying to turn people off to any useful conversations and it is working.

Back to the subject of this thread, how are the line stations doing with the AMFA drive? I'm sure it should be easier this time around, I would hope.

Hey Woop, the option of choosing to NOT read my posts is a simple and easy alternative. What you seem to want is a board where everyone claims and agrees to only the same thing. No choice, no freedom of opinion. I disagree with your opinions and directions, but would not stop you from your beliefs. I am merely offering an alternative to the rhetoric.

 

[Anomaly]

You've answered nothing.

Buck makes me laugh