A.M.F.A. support at the line stations?

[Buck]

AMFA is the "only answer". Really? APA and APFA tried the hard line, and TWU was the one that actually got some deals done.

Yes I know the deals suck, it is called bankruptcy.

I don't love the TWU, but sometimes it seems like they are the only ones doing their damn jobs.

When the TWU uses fear and division of it's membership,they are successful at just that. Those units that voted in their groups supplemental agreements from the company, were voting for themselves as individuals. That vote was not from the union. In the beginning the TWU International and TWU Local 514 would not even take ownership of the "Last Best Offer" until they realized the Line Presidents were not playing the International game.

The TWU has since 1983, brought nothing to the membership but regressive positions for the mechanics.

Are you a mechanic?

The mechanics are last in pay in their classification and I believe the other TWU classifications are holding their own at #3. I understand that the APA and APFA are at or near top of their classifications. Any pilot or flight attendant please correct or amend my statement if I have erred.

I believe that is time for the Fleet Service to become a stand alone member of the TWU and let economic destiny adjust all groups as individuals.

After all, the current method of representation has failed. The mechanics need to get out of the Fleet Service groups way and quit using Fleet as a crutch.

 

[Anomaly]

If you knew a damn thing besides fear and smear you would know that by federal law every constitution is enforceable. I think you are nothing more than a common liar.

Of course it would be much easier to not try an enforce it, and then complain about how it never fit your personal needs.

You will soon learn more than you ever wanted to know about the way things are here at AA with the TWU. You better get some free sports tickets, or some free popcorn and sodas if you really want to solicit the type of help that supports your kind. You might even try some free minners and ammo. Then you will appeal to the crowd that will follow you.

And once you learn, if you still remain in the bail out charade, you will be exposed as a true and blue industrial union zealot that could really care less about the profession.

Enjoy yourself here.

I was going to leave this post alone, but you might have a point. I have to ask; what federal law are you talking about? Really? Is there really a Federal Law that enforces Constitutions? I know of Depatment Of Labor regulations and the procedures for filing a complaint, but I could have missed these laws. I think knowing these laws and posting them or the link could be beneficial to many. If you don't mind.

 

[Anomaly]

a·nom·a·ly
n. pl. a·nom·a·lies
1. Deviation or departure from the normal or common order, form, or rule.
2. One that is peculiar, irregular, abnormal, or difficult to classify:

The only anomaly I have witnessed is his inability to post without telling lies.

Cute.... : ) Dude you take this crap way to personal. As you suggested, my posts mean nothing to your superior intellect, so why get yourself so worked up. Seriously, get yourself a pizza and chill.

I have been going by Anomaly for years in many different applications. The word was over used by a supervisor long ago to describe aircraft problems he could not explain. We mechanics would just laugh to ourselves and go out and fix the problems. It became a joke and some of started using the name for other things.

 

[tech2101]

I remember voting to strike. I alo remember choosing to strike. I also remember voting for all the people who represented me. I also have no regret.

What do you have?

 

[Anomaly]

Can you show me where or when the two Teamsters Airline Division reps that are currently in Tulsa were elected?
Direct me to the website that shows their opponents and the certified election results.

When was the election?
Did the membership elect them?
Or Delegates?

In other words show me some proof that what you are so angry about and are currently attacking AMFA for hasn't or doesn't happen with the Teamsters.

Show me where I could recall either of the Airline Division Reps in Tulsa if I signed a Teamsters card.

Show me how your issues with lack of democracy and accountability instantly changed when your savior the Teamsters arrived to save from the dreadful happenings at UAL that you so pitifully make us believe you were victimized by.

And more for on the recall issue.

Your Statement:



Number one, show me where you can recall any rep at another station under the Teamsters Constitution.

Number two, show me where you can recall your own station rep under the Teamsters Constitution.

Number three, prove to me and others that there are no unratified side letters in the industry within Teamsters labor agreements.

Number four, I am still waiting for the list of investment returns for the millions in campaign financing that has been spent.

And on recall, if nobody wanted to recall their own rep, then why is that a travesty in your mind.
It sounds to me like everyone but you was happy with their rep.

I suspect you were one of the main disrupters of the internal attemps at change, and now you bang your drum about it being a failure.

Nice dodge, but you did nothing to discount the fact that we were screwed by AMFA.

 

[Anomaly]

You are one truly deluded individual if you think your pathetic attempts at slighting me are going to distract anyone from seeing you for what you and the teamsters really are.

So lets see....

You still haven't denied being a BA, Chief Steward, or Airline Division Rep.

You still haven't offered even the slightest counter to the LIES xUT cited about the ibt campaign at UAL. One would think this the easiest way to discredit an opponent, if the accusations were false.

Try as you will to paint UAL as seen with ibt colored glasses, myself and many others will make sure the AMTs at American know the truth.

Apparently there are a whole lot of us who were deluded. So much that the AMFA was voted out by a very wide margin, I already made all the denials you asked about several pages back. Yours is a sill game.

I do have a question for you, and yes or no, it makes no difference to me. I do not judge. Were you, or are you now a supervisor at UAL? Not a swipe, just asking.

 

[Buck]

I call BS on you being judgmental or not , you do so in most every post.

 

[aapitbull]

Hey thanks for the promotion to Teamster spokes person. Even with a pay raise, however, I will gratefully decline. Not my bag.

The fear piece were your words. I have expressed my concerns with AMFA based on personal experience. I have also relayed accounts of AMFA's past dealings as well as information on the mechanics craft after carefully researching available and public internet web sites. You call it a fear and smear campaign, I call it open information.

You also state:"you have no idea what it is like to lead the industry down the path of destruction".

Remember it was us UAL employees who lost our pension first. Along with that we had pay and benefit reductions. Before that we purchased a company with more pay reductions and work rule changes, then lost that company and all associated stocks we were promised for our sacrifice. I lost over $100 GRAND in a 401K account I never had access too. We have lost nearly 70% of our original work force and even today are working under the same wage rates we had over ten years ago. Some of our original give backs have been restored, but not all of them. Calling in sick for a couple of days still costs me half a days pay. I am still down two holidays, and still have no pension

.

All this was done under both the IAM and the AMFA contracts. Can you see our concern on going back to either one of these groups? I do not expect you to know this since you do not work at UAL. Just like I do not know about the issues at AA and the TWU.

I am however paying attention and regard what you post with great interest. My only comment favoring the TWU was at the beginning of this thread when I mentioned you did most of your work in house. Since then, partially in thanks to you, I have a greater understanding and appreciation of what life is like under the TWU at AA. I sorry that any of this happens to either of us.

The IBT is on property now at UAL. True it is an emerging and changing time, but it is also true that we expected and wanted to believe that we would be even further along than we are now. A lot of us were very angry even with our last TA and the increases it provided. Since then, it seems a lot of that anger has subsided as we at least see SOME semblance of improvement with this group. We are still behind ten years, but at least we got something. The other groups at UAL are still many more years behind.

I did not expect to jump in to this forum looking to be the IBT cheerleader, which is why I kept my affiliation quiet in the beginning. Now that it seems I have it any way, I will own it with a simple caveat; they have pissed me off less than the other two Unions. At least withe the IBT I am seeing SOME progress. Minor though it may be, it is better than going backwards.

I am well aware of the things you guys suffered at UAL and do not want to make light of them, but we have the same half pay for sick time and I am down 5 holidays we also gave up a weeks vacation and uncapped our medical we lost double time and currently get paid time and a half on the 5 holidays we get so if you work you do so for half time. We lost 17.5 percent of our pay and anyone bumping into a OSM shop gave up his/her license prem a additional 5 dollars a hour. Then on top of all of that the TWU had what they refer to as the pajama party with AA a gave away work rules thru the working together process, saying if we become more efficent they would bring in third party work so we did and all that happened was anyone that quit died got fired or retired never got replaced and we lost thousands of members finally resulting in the closing of the MCI maintenence base the closing of Hou,Dtw,Msp,Bda and SJU plus the down sizing of a dozen others and remember this was all consensual not thru BK. This list is far from complete just off the top of my head.

So the next time some of your TWU alliance parters are around thank them for the half pay for sicktime, remember it was their idea to give it away in 2003 long before you BK settlement!

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Apparently there are a whole lot of us who were deluded. So much that the AMFA was voted out by a very wide margin, I already made all the denials you asked about several pages back. Yours is a sill game.

I do have a question for you, and yes or no, it makes no difference to me. I do not judge. Were you, or are you now a supervisor at UAL? Not a swipe, just asking.

I haven't denied that AMFA was voted out in favor of the teamsters, my position has been and remains that the UAL membership was lied to by the teamsters organizers. Early contract openers, double vesting pension, etc, and that their representation has been mediocre at best.

As for my question, you have NOT answered it. You only stated you were never an officer or part of an executive board.

BAs, Chief Stewards, and Airline Division Reps are neither officers nor executive board members.

So I'm asking you directly "yes or no" are you a BA? A Chief Steward? or a Airline Division Rep?

In answer to your question....no, I have never been, at any time in my UAL career, a supervisor or any other member of management.

 

[Anomaly]

People like me?

I will tell you what people like me was actually present for. I was there in Philadelphia when there was a Presidential Emergency Board convened for the AMFA strike at NWA.

What I witnessed was such a professional three day presentation by AMFA representatives that NWA settled the issue before the NMB/PEB ever made their ruling.

I watched all three days and testified myself.

Never has the TWU the IBT or the IAM ever came anywhere close to a presentation for the profession. Nor would they ever make such a presentation for the craft or class.

That was the most impressive union presentation I have ever witnessed or even read about.

And it damn sure was not a pipe dream, I was there!

You on the other hand snibble, lie, and complain. But since you are now an appointed stooge, you are happy to attempt to defend the undefendable with lies, a bail out farce of a card drive, and seem to not have any guilt or remorse about it at all. Truth be known you are probabaly not very skilled, and a relative of someone in the ibt cult, and not even elected yourself.

Sure....

NWA did not turn out so well.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Sure....

NWA did not turn out so well.

Yea, neither did Horizon

 

[Buck]

And then there are those who believe that since 1983 the TWU's performance has been exemplary.

 

[blue collar]

Sure....

NWA did not turn out so well.

You're delusional to think NWA would have turned out differently with the ibt. The company was out to bust the union.

 

[lineguy43]

Sure....

NWA did not turn out so well.

I will say this AGAIN ....NW was out (along with other airlines and industrial unions) to break AMFA and thats a fact. The concept was a good one just too many want to see it fail mostly industrial unions who use AMT's to raise the wages of the unskilled. Think its not true? Tell you what when I was under the IAm I made 2 bucks an hr over a ramp guy at most the whole time I was in that union..First day under AMFA I got a 13 dollar an hr raise plus double my retirement. Look I am not taking anything away from ramp guys but I jumped though hoops to get to my next station in life just like pilots do I expect to be compensated for it. I now make over 100k if I had been stayed under the IAm at NWA I would still be making 40k. So yeah NW didn't turn out so well for some but not for me.

 

[Anomaly]

I haven't denied that AMFA was voted out in favor of the teamsters, my position has been and remains that the UAL membership was lied to by the teamsters organizers. Early contract openers, double vesting pension, etc, and that their representation has been mediocre at best.

As for my question, you have NOT answered it. You only stated you were never an officer or part of an executive board.

BAs, Chief Stewards, and Airline Division Reps are neither officers nor executive board members.

So I'm asking you directly "yes or no" are you a BA? A Chief Steward? or a Airline Division Rep?

In answer to your question....no, I have never been, at any time in my UAL career, a supervisor or any other member of management.

Good first step. The fact that AMFA was replaced by the Teamsters simply can not be argued. I am glad you finally admit it. It is the excuses you make that keep me around.

You swear the only reason AMFA lost was because we were all lied to by organizers. Truck driving organizers if I remember correctly. I have three little issues with that.

1. You expect all of us to believe that either us UAL mechanics were too stupid to comprehend that we were being lied to during a representational election or the truck driving organizers were such skilled story tellers they managed to dupe some 70% of us. I have a hard time believing that. And please don't blame the Indy Mechanics on furlough for the overwhelming decision to replace AMFA. .

2. Lets say your right for the moment and the IBT ran a dirty rotten shady lie riddled campaign; how did the IBT get enough cards in the first place? Before we get to that, in most of your responses to my posts you dismiss my accusations and opinions of bad AMFA representation as lies. In one you countered that there were only two issues with AMFA. You are steadfast in declaring that AMFA was doing their job well as the true democratically elected Union by and for mechanics. Although you have not stated it, I hope you can agree that many of us had been fighting for years to get AMFA on property. Our hard work finally paid off July 13, 2003 when AMFA won the representational vote. April 1, 2008, less than five years later, AMFA looses everything so many worked so hard to get. Do you really expect everyone to believe it was all because of a well played Teamster lie during an apparently exceptional campaign run by a bunch of truck drivers? And these same truck drivers were able to convince 70% of the membership to get out of a true mechanics Union and join a bunch of warehouse workers? If AMFA was doing such a good job, as you say, how then were a few mechanics able to collect more than enough cards to hold an election in a mere fraction of the time it took us to get enough cards for an AMFA election? Your facts just do not add up. The truth is AMFA terrified us. The organization turned out to be irresponsible, and dangerous to our futures.

3. Again, let's go back to the Teamsters lied theory. Where then is AMFA now? Are you the only one who figured it out? Truly more of us should have seen it by now and if i know this group like I think I do after 27 years, we should have one hell of a card drive going on for anybody but this miserable lying group. Where is the card drive? Why are these clowns still here?? As far as I know there is no active organized card drive on UAL. Don't blame the merger, because we are still two separate mechanic groups under the NMB with two separate contracts. There are a few guys out there with cards in hand, and then there are those other former AMFA leader confused soles who joined with the IAM, but overall, no card drive. Whats your answer to that. Are you waiting for the big moment? That time came and went with the first TA.

Call me a liar, say it is a smear campaign, but the unchallengeable truth remains that we dropped the Association philosophies in an astonishing short time. There has to be another explanation besides the IBT LIED. Come on.....??

NO, to answer your simple yes or no question. I am on this board getting verbally beaten up (it dies not bother me) because I disagree with your casual dismissal of events. I can keep my cool in the anonymity, control, and comfort of my home knowing my tool box will not be destroyed while I am away. But I could not do what those BA's do in the real world. I do not have the patience, nor the control to hold my temper with such foolishness. Besides, I would have to give up some easy overtime. I am not even a steward. That also was too much of a headache. I am simply a mechanic who is satisfied with my representation. So much that I am willing to speak out to this forum in favor of them. I keep somewhat involved and go to an occasional meeting, but that is enough for me and more than most. People like you are now so desperate to get back in, I am not sure how far you will go. My brawling days are behind me. I'll leave that to the younger men.

The reason I asked about your history as a supervisor; Years ago there was a mechanic near my doc with a mostly homemade tool box. There was a stainless steel decorative cover on it with the inscription; Third Seat Hero. This guy later became a supervisor with a bad reputation. Although the tool box is long gone, I believe this guy is still at UAL, and still in management. Some of the details and inside knowledge of your other posts had me very suspicious. I was just checking. You never know ...