A.M.F.A. support at the line stations?

[Anomaly]

ItI is interesting how you keep saying things frighten us, even if it was all true it is pale on comparision to life under the twu where the Intl lies and puts out half truths and gives away the farm everytime our back is turned, all the while raiseing their own pay and benefits. You like to say we do not know what AMFA is like well you have no idea what it is like to lead the industry down the path of destruction by giving away pay and benefits in the name of saving jobs that soon follow the pay and benefits out the door. Hell the contract the Judge fored down the IAM's throat at US Airways has ours beat hands down and we never wenyt BK their own lawyer said in open court our contract is dead last by just about any metric you want to use in the industry.

Now the great and powerful IBT {OZ} as decided after years of refusals to come in and organize,now they are here to be our savior and you their spokes person sign up on the forum and tell us the error of our ways. Really, Really you think we cannot see thru this charade please do us all a favor and leave town, nothing good can come of you being here, the only possible outome will be the twu stays in power and believe me you do not want that. Hell come back and try and raid amfa if you like in the future but stay out of the way right now for both of our sakes.

Hey thanks for the promotion to Teamster spokes person. Even with a pay raise, however, I will gratefully decline. Not my bag.

The fear piece were your words. I have expressed my concerns with AMFA based on personal experience. I have also relayed accounts of AMFA's past dealings as well as information on the mechanics craft after carefully researching available and public internet web sites. You call it a fear and smear campaign, I call it open information.

You also state:"you have no idea what it is like to lead the industry down the path of destruction".

Remember it was us UAL employees who lost our pension first. Along with that we had pay and benefit reductions. Before that we purchased a company with more pay reductions and work rule changes, then lost that company and all associated stocks we were promised for our sacrifice. I lost over $100 GRAND in a 401K account I never had access too. We have lost nearly 70% of our original work force and even today are working under the same wage rates we had over ten years ago. Some of our original give backs have been restored, but not all of them. Calling in sick for a couple of days still costs me half a days pay. I am still down two holidays, and still have no pension.

All this was done under both the IAM and the AMFA contracts. Can you see our concern on going back to either one of these groups? I do not expect you to know this since you do not work at UAL. Just like I do not know about the issues at AA and the TWU.

I am however paying attention and regard what you post with great interest. My only comment favoring the TWU was at the beginning of this thread when I mentioned you did most of your work in house. Since then, partially in thanks to you, I have a greater understanding and appreciation of what life is like under the TWU at AA. I sorry that any of this happens to either of us.

The IBT is on property now at UAL. True it is an emerging and changing time, but it is also true that we expected and wanted to believe that we would be even further along than we are now. A lot of us were very angry even with our last TA and the increases it provided. Since then, it seems a lot of that anger has subsided as we at least see SOME semblance of improvement with this group. We are still behind ten years, but at least we got something. The other groups at UAL are still many more years behind.

I did not expect to jump in to this forum looking to be the IBT cheerleader, which is why I kept my affiliation quiet in the beginning. Now that it seems I have it any way, I will own it with a simple caveat; they have pissed me off less than the other two Unions. At least withe the IBT I am seeing SOME progress. Minor though it may be, it is better than going backwards.

 

[Anomaly]

If you knew a damn thing besides fear and smear you would know that by federal law every constitution is enforceable. I think you are nothing more than a common liar.

Of course it would be much easier to not try an enforce it, and then complain about how it never fit your personal needs.

You will soon learn more than you ever wanted to know about the way things are here at AA with the TWU. You better get some free sports tickets, or some free popcorn and sodas if you really want to solicit the type of help that supports your kind. You might even try some free minners and ammo. Then you will appeal to the crowd that will follow you.

And once you learn, if you still remain in the bail out charade, you will be exposed as a true and blue industrial union zealot that could really care less about the profession.

Enjoy yourself here.

Wow. I think you need a pizza.

 

[Anomaly]

Why is the list of members and guests no longer available at the bottom of these pages?
These people are the reason that members like anomaly join in the early stages of a campaign.. Try all you want but most know the TWU and other industrial unions are one in the same.. AMFA is the only answer for us!!

I keep hearing that, and I guess that is the problem I am having. I am not trying to piss you off or put you on the defensive, but please explain how AMFA is any different?

I thought that too and discovered more of the same. Not totally, but in some accounts. The IBT and AMFA are actually more similar than the IAM.

Maybe if you could describe what you think is so different, and how you expect AMFA to be better, I could understand, and shut up about the topic. I am just trying to wrap my head around this and maybe go back to why I thought AMFA was such a good idea many years ago too. Just asking the question to whoever wants to answer. Except that Horton guy. That dude scares me ... : ) JK

Thanks

 

[TWU informer]

snip...

Elections? there were none. You cant recall a rep from another station and nobody wanted to recall their own. It was insane. Nothing was getting done and more of our work went out the door. To prove power, one group of "leaders" decided on their own to completely wipe out a contract LOA 74-1M which allowed furlough mechanics to bump to the same classification. There was no vote for that. The members were informed after the deed had been done. It was legal because the contract said that either party could terminate the agreement at any time by mutual agreement, but WTF? They did not even tell us? That was my last straw and the day I was convinced they would be the end of all of us. When the Teamsters finally showed, I was relieved to sign a card and join them.

I know this frightens you, but like I said before, sometimes the truth is a scary thing.

Can you show me where or when the two Teamsters Airline Division reps that are currently in Tulsa were elected?
Direct me to the website that shows their opponents and the certified election results.

When was the election?
Did the membership elect them?
Or Delegates?

In other words show me some proof that what you are so angry about and are currently attacking AMFA for hasn't or doesn't happen with the Teamsters.

Show me where I could recall either of the Airline Division Reps in Tulsa if I signed a Teamsters card.

Show me how your issues with lack of democracy and accountability instantly changed when your savior the Teamsters arrived to save from the dreadful happenings at UAL that you so pitifully make us believe you were victimized by.

And more for on the recall issue.

Your Statement:

"You cant recall a rep from another station and nobody wanted to recall their own"

Number one, show me where you can recall any rep at another station under the Teamsters Constitution.

Number two, show me where you can recall your own station rep under the Teamsters Constitution.

Number three, prove to me and others that there are no unratified side letters in the industry within Teamsters labor agreements.

Number four, I am still waiting for the list of investment returns for the millions in campaign financing that has been spent.

And on recall, if nobody wanted to recall their own rep, then why is that a travesty in your mind.
It sounds to me like everyone but you was happy with their rep.

I suspect you were one of the main disrupters of the internal attemps at change, and now you bang your drum about it being a failure.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

I have been thinking about your last few posts and believe some apologies may be in order. I apologize to the real AMFA supporters. At first I had you figured as an AMFA stool, hoping for a gravy Union job. But the more I think about it the more I think I know who you are.

We all have seen guys like you. AMFA went down in flames here at UAL, but they had a little help with the implosion. This guy, and/or people like him created so much chaos from within, there was no way the Union ever had a chance. In part, this is one of the major problems with AMFA. There are simply no safeguards against people who have their own self serving interests in mind. Another reason to do your homework on the association.

I find it interesting but not surprising you are now slamming the Teamsters. Those who find un-repairable fault with every Union can only be interested in one objective. NO UNION. I ask again, What are your true motives??

You are one truly deluded individual if you think your pathetic attempts at slighting me are going to distract anyone from seeing you for what you and the teamsters really are.

So lets see....

You still haven't denied being a BA, Chief Steward, or Airline Division Rep.

You still haven't offered even the slightest counter to the LIES xUT cited about the ibt campaign at UAL. One would think this the easiest way to discredit an opponent, if the accusations were false.

Try as you will to paint UAL as seen with ibt colored glasses, myself and many others will make sure the AMTs at American know the truth.

 

[tech2101]

You are one truly deluded individual if you think your pathetic attempts at slighting me are going to distract anyone from seeing you for what you and the teamsters really are.

So lets see....

You still haven't denied being a BA, Chief Steward, or Airline Division Rep.

You still haven't offered even the slightest counter to the LIES xUT cited about the ibt campaign at UAL. One would think this the easiest way to discredit an opponent, if the accusations were false.

Try as you will to paint UAL as seen with ibt colored glasses, myself and many others will make sure the AMTs at American know the truth.

...as will us AMFA members from NWA who see through this POS's MO.

This is a guy who will no doubt defend the scabs for crossing our picket line. Hell, he may have been sitting next Hoffa on a flight operated under NWA scab maintenance and the IAM scabs supporting him.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

It always seems to be people like you who have read the pipe dream (er, AMFA Constitution) who believe their own ideology. You argue it by preaching it. What?

You argue my posts with an "I wasn't there but I read the book" mentality. Since you were not there, nor have you been under an AMFA contract, the chaos was not with the former IAM leaders or anybody with outside interests. Most former leaders quit the company or dissolved quietly back in to the mechanic ranks. The chaos was with the elected AMFA leadership in our Locals. The meetings were ridicules, unorganized, and chaotic themselves. They were too busy fighting each other to pay attention to the company sneaking away with our jobs. It was almost comical.

There was a constant power struggle once UAL came on board. Those other established Locals who were so eager to have us join their ranks now saw us as a threat to power. The power struggles between the airlines was frustrating, yet it paled in comparison to the fights between our stations. Every major station on the west coast was competing for power grabs. SFO, DEN, SEA, LAX, they all wanted to say they were the ones in control, and fought each other to get there. Beyond that, we had skirmishes between the East and West coast Locals too. It was like the animals got out and were running the zoo.

Elections? there were none. You cant recall a rep from another station and nobody wanted to recall their own. It was insane. Nothing was getting done and more of our work went out the door. To prove power, one group of "leaders" decided on their own to completely wipe out a contract LOA 74-1M which allowed furlough mechanics to bump to the same classification. There was no vote for that. The members were informed after the deed had been done. It was legal because the contract said that either party could terminate the agreement at any time by mutual agreement, but WTF? They did not even tell us? That was my last straw and the day I was convinced they would be the end of all of us. When the Teamsters finally showed, I was relieved to sign a card and join them.

There were some votes. We voted on special dues collections in order to pay arbitration costs for other airlines. We voted on picnics. We voted on the little things to make us feel better. But when it counted, we were not allowed a voice. Kinda made us feel what NW mechanics felt like when they went on strike with no ability to see the last best and final.

I know this frightens you, but like I said before, sometimes the truth is a scary thing.

Are you just making this stuff up as you go?

Every major station on the west coast was competing for power grabs. SFO, DEN, SEA, LAX, they all wanted to say they were the ones in control, and fought each other to get there

Wow! In a word....WRONG!

There was never a west coast power struggle. SFO was the largest Local by any measure, and had an incredible working relationship with SEA, which by the way was an Alaska Airlines controlled local. LAX shut down long before the ibt came on the property and the only issue if you even want to call it that was the fact that AMFA National had the LAX members absorbed into the DEN Local. It became a running gag whenever a former LAX member would visit the SFO local, they would always ask us to adopt them.

Only two major issues between locals ever came to a head. An SFO Airline Rep brought members of the ORD grievance committee up on charges, and a member in IAD brought charges against the SFO LEC.

They were all handled through and per the AMFA constitution.

Now if you want to compare dirty laundry, the teamsters beat AMFA hands down. Just check out the last few pages of the teamster journal for the latest "load".

Elections? there were none. You cant recall a rep from another station and nobody wanted to recall their own.

Yet another splendid example of your ignorance or perhaps just another paltry attempt at an outright lie.

We had many many elections, and I'm quite sure you know this

The UAL ACAC was recalled by the membership.

An SFO Airline Rep was recalled for the very issue (removal of LOA 74-1) you cited.


Oh BTW if that was your last straw.....how come you aren't trying to get rid of the ibt? They signed an LOA with United granting seniority rights to SAMC controllers that was never ratified by the membership and we weren't told til weeks after it was signed. A change to our contract without a vote of the membership, another lie from the ibt, as they claimed during their campaign that was something they would NEVER do.

 

[TWU informer]

tech2101
ThirdSeatHero

I just want to personally thank you two for being here on this forum.

Exactly what we need is someone who was there to dispute these lies.

More of us would not know the facts without you two.
If you know of others please invite them into this forum.

 

[TWU informer]

It always seems to be people like you who have read the pipe dream (er, AMFA Constitution) who believe their own ideology. You argue it by preaching it. What?

You argue my posts with an "I wasn't there but I read the book" mentality.

People like me?

I will tell you what people like me was actually present for. I was there in Philadelphia when there was a Presidential Emergency Board convened for the AMFA strike at NWA.

What I witnessed was such a professional three day presentation by AMFA representatives that NWA settled the issue before the NMB/PEB ever made their ruling.

I watched all three days and testified myself.

Never has the TWU the IBT or the IAM ever came anywhere close to a presentation for the profession. Nor would they ever make such a presentation for the craft or class.

That was the most impressive union presentation I have ever witnessed or even read about.

And it damn sure was not a pipe dream, I was there!

You on the other hand snibble, lie, and complain. But since you are now an appointed stooge, you are happy to attempt to defend the undefendable with lies, a bail out farce of a card drive, and seem to not have any guilt or remorse about it at all. Truth be known you are probabaly not very skilled, and a relative of someone in the ibt cult, and not even elected yourself.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

tech2101
ThirdSeatHero

I just want to personally thank you two for being here on this forum.

Exactly what we need is someone who was there to dispute these lies.

More of us would not know the facts without you two.
If you know of others please invite them into this forum.

You're welcome Informer

Keep us up to date on who from the ibt is showing up around the AA system and what they are trying to peddle.

Word about them raiding the TWU is spreading.

 

[blue collar]

IBT Flying NWA during strike? Quick....WAG THE DOG.

AMFA can try to confuse and cover the issues all they want. However, they took the Mechanics of Northwest Airlines out on strike forever. You sound like an intelligent man. Is it really cool with you to walk away from your job, your career, because a few elected fools said that you should? The membership were never allowed to see the last best and final offer by the company. There was no vote in this democratic Association. No strike vote. No TA vote. No membership vote. And your good with that?

There was a strike vote, but no vote on the LBO.
How can you being a self proclaimed union man, be ok with your current leaders crossing a picket line to fly a carrier that was represented by your then-current union? Were you out there walking the line in support of your brothers?

 

[TWU informer]

a·nom·a·ly
n. pl. a·nom·a·lies
1. Deviation or departure from the normal or common order, form, or rule.
2. One that is peculiar, irregular, abnormal, or difficult to classify:

The only anomaly I have witnessed is his inability to post without telling lies.

 

[Kev3188]

Why is the list of members and guests no longer available at the bottom of these pages?

I believe it's one of the functions currently disabled while they continue the upgrades to the board/migration to the new server...

 

[frontline]

AMFA is the "only answer". Really? APA and APFA tried the hard line, and TWU was the one that actually got some deals done.

Yes I know the deals suck, it is called bankruptcy.

I don't love the TWU, but sometimes it seems like they are the only ones doing their damn jobs.

 

[Flying low]

AMFA is the "only answer". Really? APA and APFA tried the hard line, and TWU was the one that actually got some deals done.

Yes I know the deals suck, it is called bankruptcy.

I don't love the TWU, but sometimes it seems like they are the only ones doing their damn jobs.

Personally, I think the only way the APA or APFA is going to deal IS to MERGE with USAir