A.M.F.A. support at the line stations?

[ThirdSeatHero]

And you must be one of the many who could not buy his way in to office? There is another guy in Denver with your same sad story who too is mad because he was passed over. Look, nobody lied to anyone. NWA really happened in case you didn't know. It was a political election, one side won, one side lost. End of story. There are still many who believed Bush only won because election authorities in Florida lied about the chads, or those who believed Obama won because he lied about his place of birth. Truth is, your side lost and you can not swallow it.

So I am betting since the IBT lied and you are so against what they did to get on property, you refused the $11K signing bonus? That was an option you know? And I assume since then you have said no thank you to the pay raise and increased benefits we have gotten since then? The IBT has been the only one to successfully negotiated a contract here at UAL. I may not agree with them entirely, but I do not believe they have lead us to a darker path either.

As for my appearance, absolutely true. It does coincide with the rumors about the Teamsters moving on AA. You started posts and I read them. I have been reading these for years and find out many things this way. This subject however was one that I felt knowledgeable enough about jumping in to the discussion. Now that I am in, and have you all reduced to name calling, I'm hanging out for a while.

Name calling? Where did I call you any name?

I offered my opinion that you are a BA, Chief Steward, or Airline Rep, something I noticed you did not deny.

I must've hit pretty close to the mark if your first response is to accuse me of being someone who couldn't buy his way into office. Actually its ironic, as after reading the rest of your posts over the last 24 hours, I'm even more convinced you're a BA.....an APPOINTED BA.

As for the rest of your ridiculous rant, yes there was an election, and the teamsters did win. The TRUTH is they LIED to garner enough votes to do so, and you lack the integrity to admit it. We can delve into greater detail if you wish.

Did I refuse the 11k signing bonus? NO. Did you refuse the stock allocation AMFA negotiated in the bankruptcy proceedings? How about the profit sharing...did you turn that down?

Is this the type of warped questioning the teamsters tell you to use in these situations?

As before, the teamsters lied their way onto the UAL property and their representation has been mediocre at best. Try and spin your awesome tales of representation, myself and others have quite a collection of ibt flyers and video from the UAL campaign to balance the equation.

 

[xUT]

To AA M&R,
I apologize for the thread drift.
Good Luck to you all, from the HEART!
Been There, Done That, No T-Shirt!
B) xUT

 

[aapitbull]

To AA M&R,
I apologize for the thread drift.
Good Luck to you all, from the HEART!
Been There, Done That, No T-Shirt!
B) xUT

No need to apologize we have dealt with this before and I would like to thank you and ThirdSeatHero for your insight into what went on at UAL.

 

[Anomaly]

IMHO, that’s your opinion. Mine is quite different. I found that after the IBT was certified that communications (lies that they were) stopped. True, I haven’t been employed by UA for 3 years, but my sources (employed friends) inform me that nothing has changed. After Lil’Jimmy moved his trucks out of the SFO parking lot.



Good about the recalls, but why is CAL IBT hiring off the street while UAL IBT members are still on recall?
Are you comfortable with that?



Good for you, evidently, there are not many that share your comfort.



Not from me, your post speaks for itself.



I certainly would recommend the IAM over the IBT if only given the two choices.

In summation, how do you feel about the lies the IBT made to get in?

• Teamster Defined Benefit Retirement Plan with a 10 Year Look Back *

Never Happened…

• SFO Local

A-H SFO, F-Z LAX, How many SFO folks go to LAX for a meeting?
* Immediate section 6 opening
(that one made me laugh my ass off).

* IBT Flying NWA during strike
Are you comfortable with that?

Are you comfortable with 'business agents'?
I never was.

These are only what I remember as I pretty much ignored the rest of the BullHockey they put out.


B) xUT

You are not part of UAL yet you share your humble, albeit uneducated opinion based on "friends" accounts of IBT representation? It's like someone telling me "I Like Democrats because my friends say Republicans are bad guys." What ever floats your boat brother. I do not even know how to argue that.

Yes. CAL is hiring off the street at starting wage. UAL is recalling at an accelerated rate and paying these guys full top out rate according to the new contract. Not many UAL mechanics are bitching about that dude. I wont either.

Did you really recommend that we go back to the IAM? No offense bro, but I thought you were a mechanic? Those other groups are doing OK with the IAM, and us mechanics are doing just fine with our own Union. Nothing against you or the other ground employees, but I am OK with keeping our craft in a separate Union. If it happens that they join us, well, so be it. But.... lets just say some things are better left undone. Sorry.

It is funny how all of you outsiders and AMFA loyalist claim it was the IBT organizers lies that won the election. "The other side must have cheated." In truth, the IBT campaign started way before the Teamsters Union would even commit to representing our group. They sat on the sidelines for months waiting to see if we were serious. In all honesty, it pissed many of us off. By the time the Teamsters finally decided to officially campaign to represent us, we had all but decided to join. We INVITED the teamsters and apparently the majority of us are happy they accepted. You may not be, but you do not work here. Soooooooo ??

I would never go to LAX for a regular meeting. We have those in San Bruno. You will have to google the distance yourself, but it is not far. From work I am at the Local in about 7 minutes. My last name starts with R.

IBT Flying NWA during strike? Quick....WAG THE DOG.

AMFA can try to confuse and cover the issues all they want. However, they took the Mechanics of Northwest Airlines out on strike forever. You sound like an intelligent man. Is it really cool with you to walk away from your job, your career, because a few elected fools said that you should? The membership were never allowed to see the last best and final offer by the company. There was no vote in this democratic Association. No strike vote. No TA vote. No membership vote. And your good with that?

Business Agents? Mine is good. I hear others are good too. You left over three years ago? Teamsters were certified to represent UAL in April, 2008. So, how many months or weeks experience did you have before condemning the IBT and all BA's?

The BA's are not elected, which is something I was uncomfortable with in the beginning, but at the same time, I do not have to worry about them playing favorites or turning to the politcal drama. With AMFA we had to remove an unwanted position with two thirds of the members vote. More political BS. A bad BA in the Teamsters can essentially be removed by the stroke of our presidents pen. Not two thirds of a group, just one person. These guys seem to like their job and my BA apparently wants to keep his. I have not heard any complaints about him.

Just curious? How can you have a memory of BullHokey, as you called it, when you never really experienced it? How long were you ate UAL?

Are you a cleaner at? You write like someone I know from that department that left about the same number of years you have been gone. If it is you, I hope you are well. You were always a nice guy. A bit misguided maybe, but cool. : )

 

[Anomaly]

How about the $75,000 Early Out which was said to have swayed the vote. Anyone able to take?

75K early out was part of our contract. There were guidelines, but most of us did not trust the company. Relatively few took the deal.

 

[Anomaly]

Well I took a few days away from the forum and I see this response to my post. I also see the usual debate since then about which union is better than the other. If you re-read my post, or maybe read for the first time it seems, you will see that I asked a simple question: Would you prefer a democratic union to a union that has zero acountability to its members because it's leadership is untouchable?
I and a lot of others at AA are sick of it.

Are you a member in the IBT? If so, how did you manage to get out of all those annoying phone calls during the Hoffa Campaign?

There was also a couple of other Local campaigns that I did not pay much attention too. For a midnight worker, stupid phones ringing all day trying to get me to vote for a General or Local president are truly not the type of things I look forward too. This past year seemed like one giant and constant election. There is plenty of Democracy in the IBT. For me, a little too much.

I am not sure what organization you are referring to. The IBT most definitely holds elections.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

75K early out was part of our contract. There were guidelines, but most of us did not trust the company. Relatively few took the deal.

Its noteworthy that our UNELECTED teamster negotiators never bothered to let the membership know what the guidelines were BEFORE the vote was taken on the tentative agreement.

Maybe it was because there were no guidelines. The ibt knew the second vote was iffy at best so they threw some lipstick on the pig by telling everyone theres was a $75k buyout. Only AFTER the TA was ratified was it made apparent the ibt had only secured the "Promise" of a buyout, but no associated language.

When the offer finally came out, it was clear the language was entirely in the companys favor.

For instance once you agreed to the buyout, the company got to decide when to let you leave. And since the company wrote the guidelines is it any wonder they gave themselves up to a YEAR to decide. There are mechanics who took the buyout and will be working into 2013.

But hey to hear the ibt tell it, "we got a contract first".

 

[TWU informer]

Its noteworthy that our UNELECTED teamster negotiators never bothered to let the membership know what the guidelines were BEFORE the vote was taken on the tentative agreement.

Maybe it was because there were no guidelines. The ibt knew the second vote was iffy at best so they threw some lipstick on the pig by telling everyone theres was a $75k buyout. Only AFTER the TA was ratified was it made apparent the ibt had only secured the "Promise" of a buyout, but no associated language.

When the offer finally came out, it was clear the language was entirely in the companys favor.

For instance once you agreed to the buyout, the company got to decide when to let you leave. And since the company wrote the guidelines is it any wonder they gave themselves up to a YEAR to decide. There are mechanics who took the buyout and will be working into 2013.

But hey to hear the ibt tell it, "we got a contract first".

That sounds just like the P.O.S. industrial Union we have now.

With the TWU we get documents like this one:
http://www.amfa-aa.c...003_Revote.jpeg

But alas the re-vote never happened and instead we have a "without further ratification" signed agreement by the UNELECTED International President James C Little,

Why trade one worthless P.O.S. for another worthless P.O.S.?

Just keep signing those AMFA cards and ignore the ibt appointed zealot.

 

[Anomaly]

Its noteworthy that our UNELECTED teamster negotiators never bothered to let the membership know what the guidelines were BEFORE the vote was taken on the tentative agreement.

Maybe it was because there were no guidelines. The ibt knew the second vote was iffy at best so they threw some lipstick on the pig by telling everyone theres was a $75k buyout. Only AFTER the TA was ratified was it made apparent the ibt had only secured the "Promise" of a buyout, but no associated language.

When the offer finally came out, it was clear the language was entirely in the companys favor.

For instance once you agreed to the buyout, the company got to decide when to let you leave. And since the company wrote the guidelines is it any wonder they gave themselves up to a YEAR to decide. There are mechanics who took the buyout and will be working into 2013.

But hey to hear the ibt tell it, "we got a contract first".

What are you smoking? You must have been the only one left in the dark. All of the people I know bitched about this same thing BEFORE we voted. After the first miserable TA proposal none of us trusted what was coming out. We even successfully pushed to have our own guy go in to the second negotiations to find out what was going on. We all tried to get more information to which the Teamsters could not provide. Even our man on the inside could not get anymore info. I am not arguing the sketchy details during the TA, but don't make it worse than it is. Talk about lipstick on a pig.

What kind of job were you promised to help AMFA win. You whine that the Teamsters cheated on the election, then they cheated on the second TA too? What about the first TA when we told them what they can do with the contract? Did they set that up too? Or are you one of those fools who voted it in hoping to make them look worse for AMFA?

The slimiest part about a Union is that traitor working from the inside. What is your real motive???

 

[Anomaly]

That sounds just like the P.O.S. industrial Union we have now.

With the TWU we get documents like this one:
http://www.amfa-aa.c...003_Revote.jpeg

But alas the re-vote never happened and instead we have a "without further ratification" signed agreement by the UNELECTED International President James C Little,

Why trade one worthless P.O.S. for another worthless P.O.S.?

Just keep signing those AMFA cards and ignore the ibt appointed zealot.

Or UNELECTED Louie Keys for that matter.

 

[TWU informer]

The slimiest part about a Union is that traitor working from the inside. What is your real motive???

So now anyone expressing a different opinion than yours is slime and a traitor?

I think ThirdSeatHero is far more honest than you or any other industrial union appointed representative will ever be.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Are you a member in the IBT? If so, how did you manage to get out of all those annoying phone calls during the Hoffa Campaign?

There was also a couple of other Local campaigns that I did not pay much attention too. For a midnight worker, stupid phones ringing all day trying to get me to vote for a General or Local president are truly not the type of things I look forward too. This past year seemed like one giant and constant election. There is plenty of Democracy in the IBT. For me, a little too much.

I am not sure what organization you are referring to. The IBT most definitely holds elections.

Maybe he's referring to the teamsters .....

When was the election for the Airline Division Director?

When was the election for the Airline Division Reps?

When was the election for the Bas?

When was the election for the members of the TAMC?

When was the election for our negotiators?

When was the election for our contract sub-committees?

When was the election for our Safety Committee Reps?

When was the election for our EAP Reps?

Other than our stewards and grievance committee members, we don't elect ANYONE with direct input into our contract or its enforcement/administration.

In SFO, the largest UAL local, we were split by LAST NAME. A-L are in 856(SFO) M-Z are in LAX(986) they broke our group up to diminish out voting power in local elections, and have the gall to try to pass it off by telling us its for better representation.

Oh, and since you did mention these "meetings" we have in another thread, lets clear that up.

We have CRAFT meetings in SFO, NOT BUSINESS meetings.

If the M-Z members want to participate they do indeed have to go to LAX just like the A-L crowd have to go to BUSINESS meetings a 7pm, decidedly inconvenient as its right in the middle of swing shift, hours after day shift is over, and hours before midnights start.

Did I mention that the SFO Local DOESN'T have these Business meetings 3 months out of the year, as they are primarily an administrative rep Local and don't hold them?

Yes the teamsters hold a few elections, but you trying to infer they're democratic is completely disingenuous.

 

[TWU informer]

Gotta love the TWU/IBT alliance, spreading smear and fear.

Same strategy they use in National and State Politics that has failed us all for years now.

By the way Anomaly, did you come up with that list of investment returns any of us have received from the millions of dollars in campaign contributions yet?

I am still waiting to view that list.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

What are you smoking? You must have been the only one left in the dark. All of the people I know bitched about this same thing BEFORE we voted. After the first miserable TA proposal none of us trusted what was coming out. We even successfully pushed to have our own guy go in to the second negotiations to find out what was going on. We all tried to get more information to which the Teamsters could not provide. Even our man on the inside could not get anymore info. I am not arguing the sketchy details during the TA, but don't make it worse than it is. Talk about lipstick on a pig.

What kind of job were you promised to help AMFA win. You whine that the Teamsters cheated on the election, then they cheated on the second TA too? What about the first TA when we told them what they can do with the contract? Did they set that up too? Or are you one of those fools who voted it in hoping to make them look worse for AMFA?

The slimiest part about a Union is that traitor working from the inside. What is your real motive???

For someone who chides others on name calling you certainly have no problem engaging in it.

As for the buyout guidelines(or lack thereof), and your request ....."but don't make it worse than it is"

Are you kidding? This is CONTRACT NEGOTIATIONS! The UAL membership was asked to vote on a TA with language that was at the time UNWRITTEN. It is sheer and utter incompetence for the teamsters or ANY union to do such a thing. You may be fine with this sort of "representation" but I for one certainly am not.

BTW there is a difference between "Lied" and "Cheated"

The teamsters L-I-E-D their way onto UAL property. I never said they cheated. As for the second TA I never said they cheated there either, I just pointed out what incompetent negotiators they were. Something you seem okay with.

As to the remainder of your ridiculous post, you do realize what a hypocrite you just made of yourself don't you?

From one of your exchanges with xUT

In truth, the IBT campaign started way before the Teamsters Union would even commit to representing our group. They sat on the sidelines for months waiting to see if we were serious. In all honesty, it pissed many of us off.

Sounds like you were involved in the ibt campaign on UAL, when AMFA was still the union on property.

What were you saying about slime & traitors?

And just so you know AMFA has promised me nothing, not that they could, you see per AMFAs constitution all positions are elected.

That said, since you obviously believe no one trys to better their representation with out first being offered a position, what position did the ibt promise you?

 

[Anomaly]

Its noteworthy that our UNELECTED teamster negotiators never bothered to let the membership know what the guidelines were BEFORE the vote was taken on the tentative agreement.

Maybe it was because there were no guidelines. The ibt knew the second vote was iffy at best so they threw some lipstick on the pig by telling everyone theres was a $75k buyout. Only AFTER the TA was ratified was it made apparent the ibt had only secured the "Promise" of a buyout, but no associated language.

When the offer finally came out, it was clear the language was entirely in the companys favor.

For instance once you agreed to the buyout, the company got to decide when to let you leave. And since the company wrote the guidelines is it any wonder they gave themselves up to a YEAR to decide. There are mechanics who took the buyout and will be working into 2013.

But hey to hear the ibt tell it, "we got a contract first".

I have been thinking about your last few posts and believe some apologies may be in order. I apologize to the real AMFA supporters. At first I had you figured as an AMFA stool, hoping for a gravy Union job. But the more I think about it the more I think I know who you are.

We all have seen guys like you. AMFA went down in flames here at UAL, but they had a little help with the implosion. This guy, and/or people like him created so much chaos from within, there was no way the Union ever had a chance. In part, this is one of the major problems with AMFA. There are simply no safeguards against people who have their own self serving interests in mind. Another reason to do your homework on the association.

I find it interesting but not surprising you are now slamming the Teamsters. Those who find un-repairable fault with every Union can only be interested in one objective. NO UNION. I ask again, What are your true motives??