A letrer from USAPA's Law Firm (EAST THREAD 8/17-24)

[EastUS]

When they get into that office, their primary concern becomes the union, not flying the line.
The hypocrisy!!!

Bingo..."their primary concern becomes the union..." Extrapolate that into any observation about Alpo Nat'l..and we quickly see just how utterly detatched people get from any of the woes of line pilots.

"Amazing how pilots #### and moan about these guys not flying the line regularly, but when something happens, guess who they go to first."
Spoken like a true "Holier-than-thou" Alpo sort = desk jockey, with delusions of "superiority" over line pilots. I'm uninterested in any "go to first" with these clowns...I just want to see the whole, hopelessly and totally flawed Alpo nightmare go away.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

I'm uninterested in any "go to first" with these clowns...I just want to see the whole, hopelessly and totally flawed Alpo nightmare go away.

Amen

 

[AWA320]

AWA20: "Hey that's on your side of the fence our reps and officers do fly trips"

REALLY??..and how current are your MEC guys?

All are current EastUS, the reps fly regular trips and are only off for meetings which are pre loaded. Now should a special MEC meeting pop up which is rare over here then they have to drop trips and get they do get FPL for those but our reps/mec officer DO NOT abuse the process!!!

AWA30: "You have a recall process and you should have used it!!!"

We're working on a large scale "recall" as we speak.

Right idea but wrong method!! Some have people on the east believing that by removing ALPA they get out of the award, this is just not true and people deserve the truth!!

AWA3220: "I just feel that in order to get anything at all out of the union I must make my presence known!"

No argument there. Even throwing a "union" out takes effort. PS: Do let us all know if/when you, or any of us actually "get anything at all out of the union"...ANYTHING.

I am really concerned that on the east property you don't get things done!! That is a problem that can be fixed by getting a group together and contacting your reps. If you get lip service or nothing gets done then recall the SOB's but don't just take that bull for years and do nothing. Yes I am concerned for a number of reasons, what happens if we have a crew over seas that has an accident, you know that they don't play in some of those countries?? Alpa has the resources to get us out. What about aero medical?? They have certainly helped me in the past with medical issues?? How about any political clout on the hill?? Yeah I know bad example or is it?? Fact is you do have some help on the Capital hill. There are many other things as well but you already know them.

What you guys have allowed your MEC and your reps to do is criminal!!! I'm serious EastUS, all joking and poking fun at one another aside. You guys allow them to throw several special mec meetings a year and thousands of dollars each time, you allow your mec chair, vice chair, communications and a few other to live off of FPL and go non current!1 That's just BS EastUS and amounts to stealing!!!

 

[AWA320]

I wonder if he is on the AWA MEC.

Nark in all seriousness, what difference would it make if I was or if I wasn't???

 

[EastUS]

I am really concerned that on the east property you don't get things done!! That is a problem that can be fixed by getting a group together and contacting your reps.


What you guys have allowed your MEC and your reps to do is criminal!!! I'm serious EastUS, all joking and poking fun at one another aside. You guys allow them to throw several special mec meetings a year and thousands of dollars each time, you allow your mec chair, vice chair, communications and a few other to live off of FPL and go non current!1 That's just BS EastUS and amounts to stealing!!!

Amazingly enough?...We finally agree to some large extent, but are completely opposed as to the proper "fix". My disgust with Alpo also concerns it's fundamental structure..and I think all such has to GO, before any long term improvement in union actions can ever be seen. Simply replacing the people in office? = Neg; That'd amount to just putting paint over a leaking tire to my thinking. It might "look better" for awhile..but/etc.

 

[AWA320]

Oh I asked questions. Wrote letters. Sent e-mails. But sheep? hhmm No more from me. But my alternative doesn't sit well out west either. This "sheep" will believe in anybody but ALPA. Any alternatives you want to recommend? I will be more than happy to listen. In the meantime USAPA has my full support.

The sad part about all this is that your current leadership fails to listen to the membership, that doesn't happen here, seriously!! If you can't get rid of your elected reps what makes you think a new union won't get the same people?? If you can't get them recalled you can't stop them getting elected and that's a real problem!!! New union no money no real services and the same people as before still screwing up the works. No ALPA ain't in my book of favorites but it's the lesser of two evils and that evil simply has more clout out there. I don't discount one dam bit how your membership has been treated and it's wrong DEAD WRONG...

 

[AWA320]

Amazingly enough?...We finally agree to some large extent, but are completely opposed as to the proper "fix". My disgust with Alpo also concerns it's fundamental structure..and I think all such has to GO, before any long term improvement in union actions can ever be seen. Simply replacing the people in office? = Neg; That'd amount to just putting paint over a leaking tire to my thinking. It might "look better" for awhile..but/etc.

East, I poked fun at you because it was easy an somewhat fun, however what ain't fun is an MEC that fails it's membership. No unless you USAPA guy plan on setting up a dictatorship and not a democracy you are gonna be faced with a real serious problem!! If you can't get these clowns recalled you can't stop them from being elected and we are right back to the same place as before but this time without any real power and worse resources (real money)!!!!

Now you me and ever other alpa member has been paying into this pot for years and they owe me something more thsan just this 10yr pin!!! We have a company to fight, one that's capitolizing on our inability to move forward.

You guys need to really consider what I just stated, if you can't recall them how do you stop them from getting back in?????

 

[BottomFeeder]

The sad part about all this is that your current leadership fails to listen to the membership, that doesn't happen here, seriously!!

You are the one not listening and that is sad. The AAA MEC is listening to the line guys and now are united in fighting this Nic award. We will do whatever is needed to be done to fix it. Till then we can just keep the recalls coming.

ALPA has done very little and now they will reep what they soe

Then we will always have the trump card with a "no" vote on a joint contract.

 

[USA320Pilot]

AWA320,

With all due respect, what you do not seem to recognize is that the US Airways MEC has the support of the overwhelming majority of East pilots.

Meanwhile, Doug Parker seems to understand this becuase in his recent letter to the East and West pilots he said, "I should clarify that a joint contract does not necessarily mean immediate seniority integration. I have spoken with enough of our East pilots to know that such a proposal would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to get ratified."

I agree with Parker's thoughts and he happens "to believe that if we could get everyone together at the negotiating table, we could work something out that meets everyone's needs - though both sides would need to move some from their increasingly hardening positions. We are hopeful that the Rice Committee will facilitate some creative solutions and do so quickly. I know we have some ideas that we have shared with ALPA and I'm sure they have many more of their own."

AWA320, the recent acceleration in representational cards arriving at USAPA's address is due to the AWA MEC not accepting the two EC resolutions and working with the Rice Committee. I still believe there can be a "reasonable solution" obtained between the East and West pilots, but it takes two parties to negotiate an agreement.

In my opinion, if the West does not want to negotiate a "realistic solution" to the Nicolau Award then it appears that ALPA is on the way to being thrown off both the East and West property and replaced with USAPA.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[ussnark]

Nark in all seriousness, what difference would it make if I was or if I wasn't???

It would explain your ardor, self-contradictions as well as some of your, um, ambiguous statements.

BTW, how many block hours have you flown so far this year?

 

[AAA73Pilot]

I am really concerned that on the east property you don't get things done!! That is a problem that can be fixed by getting a group together and contacting your reps. If you get lip service or nothing gets done then recall the SOB's but don't just take that bull for years and do nothing. Yes I am concerned for a number of reasons, what happens if we have a crew over seas that has an accident, you know that they don't play in some of those countries?? Alpa has the resources to get us out. What about aero medical?? They have certainly helped me in the past with medical issues?? How about any political clout on the hill?? Yeah I know bad example or is it?? Fact is you do have some help on the Capital hill. There are many other things as well but you already know them.

What you guys have allowed your MEC and your reps to do is criminal!!! I'm serious EastUS, all joking and poking fun at one another aside. You guys allow them to throw several special mec meetings a year and thousands of dollars each time, you allow your mec chair, vice chair, communications and a few other to live off of FPL and go non current!1 That's just BS EastUS and amounts to stealing!!!

I couldn't agree with you more. But like another poster said our fix solutions are polar opposites. The dynamics on the east never allowed for any type of unity. Past managements new it and played us beautifully. For the first time in 20+ years this is the most unity I have ever seen.

Don't need to spend time recalling. Just replace ALPA!

 

[AAA73Pilot]

The sad part about all this is that your current leadership fails to listen to the membership, that doesn't happen here, seriously!! If you can't get rid of your elected reps what makes you think a new union won't get the same people?? If you can't get them recalled you can't stop them getting elected and that's a real problem!!! New union no money no real services and the same people as before still screwing up the works. No ALPA ain't in my book of favorites but it's the lesser of two evils and that evil simply has more clout out there. I don't discount one dam bit how your membership has been treated and it's wrong DEAD WRONG...

Lesser of 2 evils? One I know all about. The other is a work in progress. As for the same people getting elected. Hope not but it may happen. To my knowledge they are currently not in any leadership position that I know of. At least under the new union we will get participative oversight. i.e. A VOTE as a matter of basic rights. To me that's worth it.

 

[AWA320]

It would explain your ardor, self-contradictions as well as some of your, um, ambiguous statements.

BTW, how many block hours have you flown so far this year? About 640 so what's your point????

 

[AWA320]

You are the one not listening and that is sad. The AAA MEC is listening to the line guys and now are united in fighting this Nic award. We will do whatever is needed to be done to fix it. Till then we can just keep the recalls coming.

ALPA has done very little and now they will reep what they soe

That's truely unfortunate however that is how you feel and you have a right to feel that way...

Then we will always have the trump card with a "no" vote on a joint contract.

That too is a shame!! I feel sorry for you and your family in this as you deserve a better contract than you have.

I want to be perfectly clear to you and I want you to save this post as proof. You can not win this decert, this is not just wishful thinking or some head game but truth. You can not and will not win.

 

[AWA320]

AWA320,

With all due respect, what you do not seem to recognize is that the US Airways MEC has the support of the overwhelming majority of East pilots.

Thank you for the respect and I return the same. IF your MEC has the full support of the pilot group why the threat of change? Wouldn't that be against the wishes of your MEC???

Meanwhile, Doug Parker seems to understand this becuase in his recent letter to the East and West pilots he said, "I should clarify that a joint contract does not necessarily mean immediate seniority integration. I have spoken with enough of our East pilots to know that such a proposal would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to get ratified."

Doug stated "not necessarily mean immediate" however it does mean at some point not forever as you have attempted to suggest. I too have spoken with many east pilots most of who do not support your actions. It's up to you guys if you want a new contract or not, one would think so seeing as how your mec violated the transition agreement by pulling out of JNC talks. BTW the rest of the letter states that Parker will only wait a very short time before dragging your mec into mediation. You left that part out, why??

I agree with Parker's thoughts and he happens "to believe that if we could get everyone together at the negotiating table, we could work something out that meets everyone's needs - though both sides would need to move some from their increasingly hardening positions. We are hopeful that the Rice Committee will facilitate some creative solutions and do so quickly. I know we have some ideas that we have shared with ALPA and I'm sure they have many more of their own."

Your ideas are not in the companies nor the entire professions best interest. You place yourselves ahead of the whole. I bet none of you have given any thought at all to the precidence that would be set in dealing away an arbitrated decision have you??? What happens when the company wants to deal after you have already recieved a favorable ruling?? The company has a much bigger stick and can afford to really inflict harm all because the USAirways pilots saw fit to deal away an arbitrated decision for what can only be described as selfish reasons!!!

AWA320, the recent acceleration in representational cards arriving at USAPA's address is due to the AWA MEC not accepting the two EC resolutions and working with the Rice Committee. I still believe there can be a "reasonable solution" obtained between the East and West pilots, but it takes two parties to negotiate an agreement.

Well I am going to put it to you like this,there is no way you can win! Steps have been taken to ensure that. We never ever wanted things to turn out like this. This will be the most fractured pilot group in the history of the profession. I'm sorry USA320 this is really not what we wanted...

In my opinion, if the West does not want to negotiate a "realistic solution" to the Nicolau Award then it appears that ALPA is on the way to being thrown off both the East and West property and replaced with USAPA.

Again i'm sorry but there is no way we can deal away that award. There is far more at stake than your bruised feelings. You can not win and that much is a fact!! I'm sorry USA320 I really am
Regards,

USA320Pilot