A letrer from USAPA's Law Firm (EAST THREAD 8/17-24)

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Scham, Scham, Meltz, and Petersen, LLC – Attorney’s at Law

11 Martine Avenue, Suite 1450 White Plains, NY 10606
August 20, 2007
Interim President
US Airline Pilots Association
McMurray, PA 15317

Re: Seniority Integration Issues

Dear XXXX:

The general rule is that seniority is a creature of contract, much like any other term or condition of employment:

Once a seniority position is in place, many employees come to think of their position in the pecking order as a form of property. … Yet seniority does not “belong†to an employee, any more than he “owns†the prospect of receiving a given wage next year or flying the St. Louis – Paris route rather than the leg from Minneapolis to Duluth. … Like wages and fringe benefits, seniority is a legitimate subject of discussion and compromise in collective bargaining. … “Forever†in labor relations means “until the next collective bargaining agreement.â€


Did it ever occur to you guys (the East) that you are the only existing group of pilots, (a very small minority for that matter) who advocates DOH??? In fact you are so tied to that “sacred†number that you are blind to the reality that everything you hope to gain can be addressed to one degree or another through a Joint Contract, with the exception of reordering the list set forth in the Nicolau award.

The DOH group seems to be surgically attached to an arbitrary number and unwilling to understand that seniority is not a number but a relative position based on many variables. Even your own attorney states "seniority does not “belong†to an employee.“ That number is like an ego trip for someone to measure themselves up to others. And so is that fourth stripe on the shoulder of some captains, who carry the title with them even when not at work.

Let’s get down to brass tacks here. Who cares what number sits next to your name or how many stripes sit on your shoulder. (unless you are a control freak.) Most of us got into this profession for our love of flying and the quality of life it can afford. At UA we have 747 and 777 first officers making almost the same as 737 captains. I honestly couldn’t tell you my seniority number without looking it up, because all that matters to me is my relative position and what it affords me in my domicile. In a merger, I would expect whatever that new number is to afford me the same relative position as before. And that, by the way is based on current industry conditions, not what I thought my world would look like 10 years ago.

Before this merger, while in your second bankruptcy, your airline’s future was no shining star. Your airline’s future and your career expectations were very uncertain at best. Irregardless of AWA’s financial condition, this is still a fact. So to say you had career expectations of “xyz†when you first were hired is not relevant to this discussion. And to say that your expectations after the merger would be “abc†is also not relevant because integrating two diverse groups is about pre-merger expectation. (Not 18 years ago, but right prior to consummating the deal.)

IMO many of your pilots recognize that the pay and quality of life improvements of a joint contract would far outweigh the incremental improvements available in LOA 93 and the gradual steps forward due to attrition. The problem is that your MEC, and those in control of the message that gets out to the line pilot, are afraid that if the topic of conversation ever is allowed to get to JNC discussions and the word gets out about how much Parker would pay for the synergies and labor peace, the MEC would have a mutiny and hence lose control of their personal agenda. Why else would the MEC oppose pilots talking directly with Prater without the “coaching and preparation†of the MEC? Why else would they be against exploring what kind of options are available through the JNC which would also include not re-ordering the list?
 
The problem is that your MEC, and those in control of the message that gets out to the line pilot, are afraid that if the topic of conversation ever is allowed to get to JNC discussions and the word gets out about how much Parker would pay for the synergies and labor peace, the MEC would have a mutiny and hence lose control of their personal agenda. Why else would the MEC oppose pilots talking directly with Prater without the “coaching and preparationâ€￾ of the MEC? Why else would they be against exploring what kind of options are available through the JNC which would also include not re-ordering the list?
Amen!!! But the radicals out East do no seem to see that.

Wine and moan... Soo... The list stays, binding is BINDING, and they choose to live w/ LOA 93, on a B scale... But hey, they are taking advantage of their attrition.

Pathetic!
 
Amen!!! But the radicals out East do no seem to see that.

Wine and moan... Soo... The list stays, binding is BINDING, and they choose to live w/ LOA 93, on a B scale... But hey, they are taking advantage of their attrition.

Pathetic!

Yeah attrition = 500 recalls and counting. Much more to come since the staffing level is low.

A change in diet will help you with the binding problem. If you stop eating your MEC's cheese and you'll find the binding will go away. That will be hard for a Rat but you should try it.
 
Excellent post, 767jetz. I would disagree on one point though in your fourth paragraph. ALPA merger policy considers career expectations as one of the tenets. Both Parker and Kirby have stated AWA likely would have file Chp11 without the merger and US would have liquidated - that is a significant difference in career expectation. AWA's future might not have been as rosy as some claim, but US had none at all.

Did it ever occur to you guys (the East) that you are the only existing group of pilots, (a very small minority for that matter) who advocates DOH??? In fact you are so tied to that “sacred†number that you are blind to the reality that everything you hope to gain can be addressed to one degree or another through a Joint Contract, with the exception of reordering the list set forth in the Nicolau award.

The DOH group seems to be surgically attached to an arbitrary number and unwilling to understand that seniority is not a number but a relative position based on many variables. Even your own attorney states "seniority does not “belong†to an employee.“ That number is like an ego trip for someone to measure themselves up to others. And so is that fourth stripe on the shoulder of some captains, who carry the title with them even when not at work.

Let’s get down to brass tacks here. Who cares what number sits next to your name or how many stripes sit on your shoulder. (unless you are a control freak.) Most of us got into this profession for our love of flying and the quality of life it can afford. At UA we have 747 and 777 first officers making almost the same as 737 captains. I honestly couldn’t tell you my seniority number without looking it up, because all that matters to me is my relative position and what it affords me in my domicile. In a merger, I would expect whatever that new number is to afford me the same relative position as before. And that, by the way is based on current industry conditions, not what I thought my world would look like 10 years ago.

Before this merger, while in your second bankruptcy, your airline’s future was no shining star. Your airline’s future and your career expectations were very uncertain at best. Irregardless of AWA’s financial condition, this is still a fact. So to say you had career expectations of “xyz†when you first were hired is not relevant to this discussion. And to say that your expectations after the merger would be “abc†is also not relevant because integrating two diverse groups is about pre-merger expectation. (Not 18 years ago, but right prior to consummating the deal.)

IMO many of your pilots recognize that the pay and quality of life improvements of a joint contract would far outweigh the incremental improvements available in LOA 93 and the gradual steps forward due to attrition. The problem is that your MEC, and those in control of the message that gets out to the line pilot, are afraid that if the topic of conversation ever is allowed to get to JNC discussions and the word gets out about how much Parker would pay for the synergies and labor peace, the MEC would have a mutiny and hence lose control of their personal agenda. Why else would the MEC oppose pilots talking directly with Prater without the “coaching and preparation†of the MEC? Why else would they be against exploring what kind of options are available through the JNC which would also include not re-ordering the list?
 
That's great news! Glad to see there is movement for you guys after a decade of decline. You can thank AWA for the opportunity.

Yeah attrition = 500 recalls and counting. Much more to come since the staffing level is low.

A change in diet will help you with the binding problem. If you stop eating your MEC's cheese and you'll find the binding will go away. That will be hard for a Rat but you should try it.
 
That's great news! Glad to see there is movement for you guys after a decade of decline. You can thank AWA for the opportunity.


Yeah it is great news and it will only get better. The attrition on the East is creating a huge upswing and it will get even larger. Even with the negative growth we will still have movement. This is what the East guys have known about for a long time.

As to thanking AWA well that's a stretch. You had nothing but horrible balance sheet and the worst contract in the industry. The real deal maker was Mr. Lakefield and other money people. Who put this together to make money for the investors.

When you membership figures out what the East is getting and what your MEC's hardline tactics is getting them. Watch out for the revenge of the membership.
 
As to thanking AWA well that's a stretch. You had nothing but horrible balance sheet and the worst contract in the industry. The real deal maker was Mr. Lakefield and other money people. Who put this together to make money for the investors.

Then what did you need us for? Lakefield and his A-team financial whizzes could have saved us all by coming up with a standalone plan and avoided AWA acquiring them. Wow, what a revelation!!!! Lost in space
 
As to thanking AWA well that's a stretch. You had nothing but horrible balance sheet and the worst contract in the industry. The real deal maker was Mr. Lakefield and other money people. Who put this together to make money for the investors.

You are forgetting that AWA was profitable at the time the merger was announced and had been for 5-6 quarters before that.
 
You are forgetting that AWA was profitable at the time the merger was announced and had been for 5-6 quarters before that.

Actually, little girl. It was two quarters of "profit", with numerous "one time" positives. Learn to read a report. Then comment.

Had you bought stock in line with your blatherings, you would be rich, right? So, why are you still here?
 
Actually, little girl. It was two quarters of "profit", with numerous "one time" positives. Learn to read a report. Then comment.

Had you bought stock in line with your blatherings, you would be rich, right? So, why are you still here?

1. East is profitable because (and only because) you make nothing. If you ever get a raise, the profit goes out the window.

2. If I invested $100 in US East right after the merger with UA was announced, I'd be broke. If I did the same thing after the first bankruptcy I'd be broke. Glass houses, and all that.
 
1. East is profitable because (and only because) you make nothing. If you ever get a raise, the profit goes out the window.

2. If I invested $100 in US East right after the merger with UA was announced, I'd be broke. If I did the same thing after the first bankruptcy I'd be broke. Glass houses, and all that.

1. Pure conjecture. When we made $1B under Wolf, everyone on the east made a lot more then, than we do now. The difference was that Wolf understood operations and held middle mangement to account for themselves or be gone. Then he tried to sell us to UAL and the operation cratered. In effect, no one was minding the store. Management was out trying to secure a position with the combined company. Much like our team of "no" management today. History repeating itself, maybe? US/DAL mean anything? Once operations hit rock bottom it will require someone bigger than Doug to fix this place. We just have too much money to hit rock bottom in the near term.

2. If you try to buy and hold shares in an airline today run by bean counters rather than operations people, you should lose everything for being stupid. Don't get me wrong here, airlines are run to make money for the insiders and not you or me.
 
1. Pure conjecture. When we made $1B under Wolf, everyone on the east made a lot more then, than we do now.

I'm not talking about the late 1990s. Again, the only difference between US East before two BKs and now is your low wages and the artificial ability provided by BK to screw employees, creditors, and leaseholders and return aircraft.

It's not as if CCY was any braintrust, either. They knew how to use lawyers and cut your pay. Enjoy making all that money. Were East to get raises to match west (not exactly a steller benchmark), you lose 150 mil a year in profit. If you had an "industry average" contract, there would be no profit.

2. If you try to buy and hold shares in an airline today run by bean counters rather than operations people, you should lose everything for being stupid. Don't get me wrong here, airlines are run to make money for the insiders and not you or me.

You cannot crow about profit on one hand and then discount the shareholder in the second. US East has destroyed a much larger pot of shareholder value than US West has.
 
Then what did you need us for? Lakefield and his A-team financial whizzes could have saved us all by coming up with a standalone plan and avoided AWA acquiring them. Wow, what a revelation!!!! Lost in space

Lost in space? AWA was headed to BK as told by your prior post. You had no monies to buy anything let alone a beer for the boss.

Your contract is the bottom of the barrel and that was agreed to outside of BK. Some talented people over there!!

Revelation: Recalls coming to the West when the rank and file figure out what is happening on the East.
 
I'm not talking about the late 1990s. Again, the only difference between US East before two BKs and now is your low wages and the artificial ability provided by BK to screw employees, creditors, and leaseholders and return aircraft.

It's not as if CCY was any braintrust, either. They knew how to use lawyers and cut your pay. Enjoy making all that money. Were East to get raises to match west (not exactly a steller benchmark), you lose 150 mil a year in profit. If you had an "industry average" contract, there would be no profit.
You cannot crow about profit on one hand and then discount the shareholder in the second. US East has destroyed a much larger pot of shareholder value than US West has.
Not to be a one line wonder but for once I completely agree with you and your succint? description of the past situation.
 
That's great news! Glad to see there is movement for you guys after a decade of decline. You can thank AWA for the opportunity.

It is great news. But not a decade. Under Wolf we were actually growing again. No one on furlough after '98 (or was it late '97?) So when the deal to sell us to UAL fell through. They were going to have to come up with another plan. 9/11 started the real period of decline. It stabilized in '04.

You can thank the outside investors who saw the benefits of a viable USAirways under new management. Where did the investment money go to first?

Later Prater
 
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